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Author Topic: RBN #33 06/29/05 Wednesday AM-Midday  (Read 163937 times)
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littletxlady
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« Reply #380 on: June 29, 2005, 11:36:53 AM »

Quote from: "bamabelle11"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I doubt Natalee was sold as a sex slave.  If Joran weren't the last to be seen with her, then maybe.  Also, any worth she might have had would quickly turn to a liability...no one would want to have in their possession a woman whose picture is plastered all over the world.

Joran knows what happened here and he didn't sell her.  IMO


But, think about Amie Bradley abducted in 98, seen at a bar in Aruba in 99 by a soldier.  He went to police.  The award is 250 million.  Seems like a lot of money but evidently not enough to bring her back.  Sex slavery is big business.


sadly it is not proven Amy was abducted, and she was in a different place.


Not 250 million... 250 THOUSAND... and she was seen in Curaccu not
Aruba


She had been in Aruba, at CnC, she never made it off the boat in Curcao.
Here is the link to clear up any confusion:
http://www.tggweb.com/amybradley/
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« Reply #381 on: June 29, 2005, 11:37:44 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "Professor"
I don't buy it. I think it's just "island mentality." I think the Arubans were protective of Paul and Joran van der Sloot, because he was "one of them," and they didn't care how Mickey John was treated because wasn't "one of them." He was Grenadan. And I think that the corruption that we see in the police department goes way beyond just a "few bad cops." On this incestuous island, it seems to seep into every nook and cranny of island life. That is why we have Steven Croes coming forward to offer a false alibi for his homey, and why we have women lining up to hand flowers and potted plants over the van der Sloot's front gate. And that is why, when Deepaks story started to unravel, he started to refer to Joran as "the Dutch boy." (Meaning: Not from Aruba) And that is why the life of one "tourist" is less important than the "tone" used in addressing one of the island's permanent residents. Just a hunch.

And, by the way, the police were with the Twittys. And they didn't even knock on the door. They waited patiently, outside the gate, and beeped the horn for 30 minutes.


What???  No tulips for Mickey???



NO SHIT!!! He laughed when I told him people passsing food etc over judges fence.  Funny how no media when judge gets out.
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Whodunit?
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« Reply #382 on: June 29, 2005, 11:39:33 AM »

Yeah, and not to mention that he or his family has ever made any plea to the public to help find her OR even helped search the island themselves in any way!  IF the people there support him and he knows this, doesn't he ask them ALL to help search??????

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "nisxan"
Is it just me, or does it seem a bit too convenient that MJ didn't mention anything about the "family" in his earlier statements (when it would have been useful) and only added that to his story after PVDS had been taken into custody? Seems to me that he just wants to get even or something.

He is surprised that this is news to us at all.  He says "everybody know from start judge know somethin the way he running from the cameras"
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tkubi7
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« Reply #383 on: June 29, 2005, 11:39:52 AM »

I am posing this question in all seriousness. Does PVDS have any connection to or with a local funeral director? It is very easy to dispose of a body in a casket with someone else. Just a thought.
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KerinTX
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« Reply #384 on: June 29, 2005, 11:42:31 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "KerinTX"

Yes they did, Professor. The "lead in" story was....next we have an interview with one of the released security guards, Mickey John, who said that Paulus VDS was involved in making up the cover story. Then they went to the tape. It is the misleading lead-in that infuriates me!


While it is admittedly distorting the precise language Mickey used, please share with us any other plausible inference in the use of the word "family" that does NOT implicate Paulus as well.

Scott...calm down. My point was...I didn't like the lead-in being stated that MJ SAID the father was involved in the cover story. Then when you actually see the tape, Greta asks him 2-3 times and each time he does NOT say father...until the last time and I believe (could be wrong) that Greta states father first..and then MJ agrees. MY opinion was that maybe Greta's pressing MJ made him include the word father? This would also be based on the fact that I was sent FOM's phone conversation with MJ which happened earlier in the day.

My second point was on SC. He is driving away and Greta is in his face with a microphone asking questions and it is obvious that he wants to not only drive away but that he is somewhat confused at either her fast-talking or he is just plain "dumb" (based on the facts of his arrest I will go with the latter).

So, YES...I am fully aware that English is MJ's first language. No need to be so condescending. I am merely stating my opinion that maybe on SC the language barrier (or fast talking) was an issue and that on MJ it could have been the approach.
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Whodunit?
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« Reply #385 on: June 29, 2005, 11:43:56 AM »

That website doesn't mention CnC's anymore does it?  Looks different now than when I looked at it last, can't find the whole story of how the men had asked her to go to CnC's. It used to be there, now I can't find it.  Even still, last time I looked I never read that she actually went.....



Quote from: "littletxlady"
Quote from: "bamabelle11"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I doubt Natalee was sold as a sex slave.  If Joran weren't the last to be seen with her, then maybe.  Also, any worth she might have had would quickly turn to a liability...no one would want to have in their possession a woman whose picture is plastered all over the world.

Joran knows what happened here and he didn't sell her.  IMO


But, think about Amie Bradley abducted in 98, seen at a bar in Aruba in 99 by a soldier.  He went to police.  The award is 250 million.  Seems like a lot of money but evidently not enough to bring her back.  Sex slavery is big business.


sadly it is not proven Amy was abducted, and she was in a different place.


Not 250 million... 250 THOUSAND... and she was seen in Curaccu not
Aruba


She had been in Aruba, at CnC, she never made it off the boat in Curcao.
Here is the link to clear up any confusion:
http://www.tggweb.com/amybradley/
Quote
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #386 on: June 29, 2005, 11:44:50 AM »

Quote from: "mariloo1"
Quote from: "poo_slinger"
Quote from: "mariloo1"
But, think about Amie Bradley abducted in 98, seen at a bar in Aruba in 99 by a soldier.  He went to police.  The award is 250 million.  Seems like a lot of money but evidently not enough to bring her back.  Sex slavery is big business.


Not true.
A soldier reported seeing her in a brothel in '99.
He didn't report it for months or years, because he was not supposed to be there.
After he left the service, he told the story.
By the time it was investigated, the brothel had burned to the ground.


Are you saying the brothel was not in Aruba?


mariloo, if you google her name you can get the real facts of that case.
http://www.ctsi.net/amy/
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #387 on: June 29, 2005, 11:45:15 AM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "KerinTX"

Yes they did, Professor. The "lead in" story was....next we have an interview with one of the released security guards, Mickey John, who said that Paulus VDS was involved in making up the cover story. Then they went to the tape. It is the misleading lead-in that infuriates me!


While it is admittedly distorting the precise language Mickey used, please share with us any other plausible inference in the use of the word "family" that does NOT implicate Paulus as well.


I think it's important we study the transcript of this interview.  I just checked Greta's site and it's not there yet.  I think transcripts are far better than videos.
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #388 on: June 29, 2005, 11:45:41 AM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "KerinTX"

Yes they did, Professor. The "lead in" story was....next we have an interview with one of the released security guards, Mickey John, who said that Paulus VDS was involved in making up the cover story. Then they went to the tape. It is the misleading lead-in that infuriates me!


While it is admittedly distorting the precise language Mickey used, please share with us any other plausible inference in the use of the word "family" that does NOT implicate Paulus as well.

Scott...calm down. My point was...I didn't like the lead-in being stated that MJ SAID the father was involved in the cover story. Then when you actually see the tape, Greta asks him 2-3 times and each time he does NOT say father...until the last time and I believe (could be wrong) that Greta states father first..and then MJ agrees. MY opinion was that maybe Greta's pressing MJ made him include the word father? This would also be based on the fact that I was sent FOM's phone conversation with MJ which happened earlier in the day.

My second point was on SC. He is driving away and Greta is in his face with a microphone asking questions and it is obvious that he wants to not only drive away but that he is somewhat confused at either her fats-talking or he is just plain "dumb" (based on the facts of his arrest I will go with the latter).

So, YES...I am fully aware that English is MJ's first language. No need to be so condescending. I am merely stating my opinion that maybe on SC the language barrier (or fast talking) was an issue and that on MJ it could have been the approach.


He told me she kept trying to get him to say fatherr
I noticed also how primer was misleading..still he says everyone know pvds involved from the start but by family it "could be tom/dick/harry"
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jac723
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« Reply #389 on: June 29, 2005, 11:46:54 AM »

Quote from: "SL"
Ooops, I started a new thread w/ this a minute ago.. sorry
SL

(re-paste)

PASTE (GretaWire Blog-Fox)

In other words, we know she was expected to return to her hotel room... did she? Could she have returned after seeing Joran van der Sloot (search) and gone back out? Could someone have followed her to her room? (It was a first floor hotel room with sliding glass doors to the beach, which could be dangerous for a young woman even with roommates.)

In my mind, I have confirmed that Natalee never got back to her hotel room on May 30 — so no intruder (like the Elizabeth Smart (search) case) nabbed her. I confirmed it for myself by taking a hotel room tour with her mother (pictures attached and we showed the video last night.) In the hotel room was a bed that had not been slept in — so I assume she did not return home and then go out again after her time with Joran. (Of course I also assume the info I was told that the bed was not slept in and then made by a housekeeper is true.) I also thought this and posted last night about it.  Not the fact that she came back to sleep and someone came in.  But what if she did leave Joran-walked back to her room and someone followed her back and grabbed her before she even entered the room.  Most of the MB students were out or by the pool.

I sure wish we could find Natalee alive and well, but being optimistic is not easy. The odds are that she is dead — but the family struggles to keep hope alive. I admire them for this — they are a very nice family. Now it seems this feeling of BHT is not that she has information-but holding their strong belief she can be alive


Many on the island think the investigation is stalled. This could be true, but when an investigation is stalled you don't quit, you start over. One should start from scratch and be willing to re-think everything — including fixed ideas. This does not mean you abandon all your earlier theories and evidence but that you start anew and make sure that you have been thorough and have gotten everything you can out of every witness in the matter. I totally agree with Greta-I mean-look at this board-all the theories, rumors, confusion--and we go back to the beginning also, this needs to be done and glad Greta is!!

It appears Mickey has not volunteered this information to the police (he is mad at them) and the police have not been clever enough to go back and ask him (maybe an apology would help, too.) Ahhh--nooo this needs to be told--SAY SORRY to him please-this is helpful info as long as it matches to his previous statements.  I believe he couldn't say anything about PVDS since he was being watched and considered a suspect--Mickey was interviewed before PVDS was arrested.

END PASTE

SL
[/b]

Thanks for the whole email--sorry I cut out some--didn't want it to be huge-even though it may be!!!
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KerinTX
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« Reply #390 on: June 29, 2005, 11:47:58 AM »

Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "KerinTX"

Yes they did, Professor. The "lead in" story was....next we have an interview with one of the released security guards, Mickey John, who said that Paulus VDS was involved in making up the cover story. Then they went to the tape. It is the misleading lead-in that infuriates me!


While it is admittedly distorting the precise language Mickey used, please share with us any other plausible inference in the use of the word "family" that does NOT implicate Paulus as well.

Scott...calm down. My point was...I didn't like the lead-in being stated that MJ SAID the father was involved in the cover story. Then when you actually see the tape, Greta asks him 2-3 times and each time he does NOT say father...until the last time and I believe (could be wrong) that Greta states father first..and then MJ agrees. MY opinion was that maybe Greta's pressing MJ made him include the word father? This would also be based on the fact that I was sent FOM's phone conversation with MJ which happened earlier in the day.

My second point was on SC. He is driving away and Greta is in his face with a microphone asking questions and it is obvious that he wants to not only drive away but that he is somewhat confused at either her fats-talking or he is just plain "dumb" (based on the facts of his arrest I will go with the latter).

So, YES...I am fully aware that English is MJ's first language. No need to be so condescending. I am merely stating my opinion that maybe on SC the language barrier (or fast talking) was an issue and that on MJ it could have been the approach.


He told me she kept trying to get him to say fatherr
I noticed also how primer was misleading..still he says everyone know pvds involved from the start but by family it "could be tom/dick/harry"


THANK YOU, FOM. Obviously I was not speaking clearly enough.
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #391 on: June 29, 2005, 11:49:16 AM »

Quote from: "Compananzi"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "roxyluv"
Proffessor
I didn't see the interview sorry, but I think anyone who was unjustly arrested is terrible. It happened to my own husband because of the color of his skin.My husband and I were assaulted coming out of a restaraunt by a white man and a woman,  I was 3 months pregnant at the time, the guy had a lengthy record for drugs and assaults but his girlfriend said my husband pushed her and thats why her boyfriend put my husband in the hospital, my husband was arrested after being realeased from the hospital.
The police believe it or not will think the worst of the black man, however with a good attorney and lots of money, we won.
However if we didn't have money and no record it wouldn't have turned out the same.
 I do not have much confidence in the police force here or there.
 But the police did have reasons to pick up the men, they were seen in the area ( security videos,) and one was at the concert the same night as Natalee and they were known to harass tourists, so they had just as much evidence as they did On PVDS.


I sympathize with your experience. But where are the Arubans who were so defensive about the "tone" that the so-called "Alabama posse" used with Paul van der Sloot, on that first night? Why aren't they outraged when a SWAT team is sent in to do a "pre-dawn raid" (probably after 10pm) at the home of Mickey John, and when they haul him out in his underwear? Just asking?


Because if the police did it is official but if someone who you do not know comes banging on the door in the middle of the night, anyone would be on defensive.
I'm not trying to say what they did was right or wrong , just that it could have been handled better.
Its normal for people to react on their emotions, just not always smart.
If I suspected someone hurt one of my kids , they would have to restrain me but on the other hand if people came to my door and started yelling at me and my son, I would tell them to F-off, probably feel very badly later because of their situation but people get on the defensive when pushed.


TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - Florida Gov. Jeb Bush signed a new anti-crime law on Tuesday that allows people to kill in self-defense without first trying to flee. Supporters say the law is a logical extension of common law that allows homeowners who fear for their lives to use deadly force to defend themselves from an intruder in their homes. The new law expands that doctrine to include people in public places who feel threatened and could be subject to death or great bodily harm. "To suggest that you can't defend yourself against a rapist, who's trying to drag you into an alley, or against a carjacker who's trying to drag you out of your car is nonsense," said Marion Hammer, a former president of the National Rifle Association. "The ability to protect yourself, your children or your spouse, is important, no matter where you are." Critics of the new law, called the "Stand Your Ground" bill, have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves in their homes but say the bill will create a "Wild West" mentality in public, where residents may shoot first and ask questions later. "There are going to be a lot of repercussions"

Suffice to say don't come a knocking in wee hours of the night at my front door..


One line OT:  Just another Florida case for the Supreme Court, it is just to bad someone will probably get hurt before this ridiculous law gets reviewed.
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nikkibnurse
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« Reply #392 on: June 29, 2005, 11:50:21 AM »

Hey guys..something is really bugging me and has piqued my curiosity...Just night before last Jug and Beth were on and they were infuriated with the release of PVDS, and rightly so IMHO..However, last night he sort of seemed a little calmer and was asked about his change of heart, as I am sure you guys already know..Then, it was followed up with, " is there a reason why you feel better? so  do you know something we do not that you  have found out today?"..His response was .."yes...something has been brought to my attention today that makes me feel we are moving in the direction we need to be..."(paraphrasing)... I just wonder..what this is..any ideas as to what couldve manifested quite so quickly?
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Professor
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« Reply #393 on: June 29, 2005, 11:51:01 AM »

Quote from: "Fecal_Fastball"
Quote from: "SL"
As an aside, do you want to know what bothered me most in Natalee's hotel room? The worst part of it was Beth showing me her daughter's wallet with all the crisp one dollar bills in it. Beth had gotten Natalee the ones for tips while on her Aruba holiday. For some reason standing there with Beth and looking at all those crisp ones I flashed back to the thought of how excited Beth must have been to go to a bank and get those ones for her daughter — they were so crisp and there were so many that they looked like you had to get fresh from the bank. Little did Beth know that her motherly task of getting tip money for her daughter would take such an ugly turn and I felt terrible for Beth as we thumbed through the ones.SL


That just about made me cry at work.
I have not seen that interview, but that is the most powerful thing I have read on this forum, bar none.


For the first time, I got the impression that Beth Twitty might have been under the influence of some type of medication. Her speech was not as crisp as it usually was, and this was such a painful interview. I hope that she is not going downhill. She has lost a lot of weight, and she is beginning to look gaunt. I cannot imagine what her life must be like, each day.
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Professor
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« Reply #394 on: June 29, 2005, 11:52:35 AM »

Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Hey guys..something is really bugging me and has piqued my curiosity...Just night before last Jug and Beth were on and they were infuriated with the release of PVDS, and rightly so IMHO..However, last night he sort of seemed a little calmer and was asked about his change of heart, as I am sure you guys already know..Then, it was followed up with, " is there a reason why you feel better? so  do you know something we do not that you  have found out today?"..His response was .."yes...something has been brought to my attention today that makes me feel we are moving in the direction we need to be..."(paraphrasing)... I just wonder..what this is..any ideas as to what couldve manifested quite so quickly?


Nikki, you are a nurse. Could the difference be Prozac?
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LexingtonProf
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« Reply #395 on: June 29, 2005, 11:53:34 AM »

Quote from: "mishj"
I heard Mickey say that he wasnt sure who else was considered to be "family" but that the father was definitely involved.  This was on Greta - how come I am seemingly the only one who heard that statement??


i heard that as well mishj. he actually said the same thing in two different ways - possibly a language issue.
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« Reply #396 on: June 29, 2005, 11:53:57 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Hey guys..something is really bugging me and has piqued my curiosity...Just night before last Jug and Beth were on and they were infuriated with the release of PVDS, and rightly so IMHO..However, last night he sort of seemed a little calmer and was asked about his change of heart, as I am sure you guys already know..Then, it was followed up with, " is there a reason why you feel better? so  do you know something we do not that you  have found out today?"..His response was .."yes...something has been brought to my attention today that makes me feel we are moving in the direction we need to be..."(paraphrasing)... I just wonder..what this is..any ideas as to what couldve manifested quite so quickly?


Nikki, you are a nurse. Could the difference be Prozac?


wtf? Everybodys on drugs now.  Prozac takes WEEKS to work professor not instant like xanax.
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #397 on: June 29, 2005, 11:56:02 AM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "friend of monkeys"
Quote from: "KerinTX"
Quote from: "Scott"
Quote from: "KerinTX"

Yes they did, Professor. The "lead in" story was....next we have an interview with one of the released security guards, Mickey John, who said that Paulus VDS was involved in making up the cover story. Then they went to the tape. It is the misleading lead-in that infuriates me!


While it is admittedly distorting the precise language Mickey used, please share with us any other plausible inference in the use of the word "family" that does NOT implicate Paulus as well.

Scott...calm down. My point was...I didn't like the lead-in being stated that MJ SAID the father was involved in the cover story. Then when you actually see the tape, Greta asks him 2-3 times and each time he does NOT say father...until the last time and I believe (could be wrong) that Greta states father first..and then MJ agrees. MY opinion was that maybe Greta's pressing MJ made him include the word father? This would also be based on the fact that I was sent FOM's phone conversation with MJ which happened earlier in the day.

My second point was on SC. He is driving away and Greta is in his face with a microphone asking questions and it is obvious that he wants to not only drive away but that he is somewhat confused at either her fats-talking or he is just plain "dumb" (based on the facts of his arrest I will go with the latter).

So, YES...I am fully aware that English is MJ's first language. No need to be so condescending. I am merely stating my opinion that maybe on SC the language barrier (or fast talking) was an issue and that on MJ it could have been the approach.


He told me she kept trying to get him to say fatherr
I noticed also how primer was misleading..still he says everyone know pvds involved from the start but by family it "could be tom/dick/harry"


THANK YOU, FOM. Obviously I was not speaking clearly enough.


If he could tell u himself he would
HOW is it we were not aware big cover --we went thru this..he says everybody knows, man.../maybe this info was never taken seriously for a reason?? The lady Gtera interviewd after seemed non chalant about it IMO any one else see her?? Dark hair can't think of name...they were sitting in captains chairs outside right after mickey on w/ greta.
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #398 on: June 29, 2005, 11:56:03 AM »

Quote from: "bobntexas"
Quote from: "MississippiGirl"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
The reporter on Fox also said IF there was a homicide.. and a body placed on the western part of the island.. it would not wash to shore...the currents are too strong.


If this is true and widely known in Aruba, why would anyone do anything with a body that they do not want found other than throw it into the ocean on that side?


However, a CNN reporter had to go a considerable distance off shore on the Western shore to get into that current. It seemed like he said 1000 yards. Otherwise, you floated back to shore. He claimed he got in the water to do this test.


Yes it was Karl Penhaul, and the video is on the CNN site.
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Professor
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« Reply #399 on: June 29, 2005, 11:56:20 AM »

Quote from: "~TAZ_MAN~"
Quote from: "Professor"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
Hey guys..something is really bugging me and has piqued my curiosity...Just night before last Jug and Beth were on and they were infuriated with the release of PVDS, and rightly so IMHO..However, last night he sort of seemed a little calmer and was asked about his change of heart, as I am sure you guys already know..Then, it was followed up with, " is there a reason why you feel better? so  do you know something we do not that you  have found out today?"..His response was .."yes...something has been brought to my attention today that makes me feel we are moving in the direction we need to be..."(paraphrasing)... I just wonder..what this is..any ideas as to what couldve manifested quite so quickly?


Nikki, you are a nurse. Could the difference be Prozac?


wtf? Everybodys on drugs now.  Prozac takes WEEKS to work professor not instant like xanax.


Hey, what do I know. I'm not on the stuff. Yet.
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