RBN #33 06/29/05 Wednesday AM-Midday

[arrabba]

From Greta's Blog:

E-mail No. 4

Greta,
I am a private investigator and wilderness crime scene investigation is my forte. I have been following this case on your show since the beginning. Although you can't report everything in one hour, there are some aspects of the search that seem to be missing. Searching the waters and the land areas can be only a portion of what needs to be searched. The following are some of my questions:
1. Have the storm water drainage pipes, street gutters and manholes been checked? If not, a confined space search team needs to get in there and look.
2. Have searchers checked burned debris on or around the beach and Van der Sloot home? If not they should check. Buttons and zippers don't always burn, evidence of clothing could be found even if it was burned.
3. Did the investigators check the handles of shovels and tools that belong to Van der Sloot? If not, they need to. These items, when used to bury or otherwise dispose of a body contain blood or body fluid from the victim, transferred from the suspect's hands.
There are many other questions, but with all the typical areas searched already, these three questions when answered may find Natalee.
Robert Birch
Dorothy, NJ

[Catriana]

All those who are altering names in a disrespectful manner, please STOP!   Although you may not have respect for the individuals involved, it does nothing for the integrity of this forum (and it's posters) to be altering peoples names using swear words, etc.

All such altered names will be removed.  If the offender keeps using the alter names, they will be banned.

There is no reason we can't all act as adults here with our posting.  And just as a reminder, NO ONE has been convicted of ANYTHING as yet.

THANK YOU!

PS.  If you have used altered names, I would suggest you go back and "edit" them out, if I haven't done so already.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Morning all..  hey Hannie!

[arrabba]

Re:  NL post at Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:41 am  :
I ran the Dutch text through a translator, so the grammar is probably rough:

Utrechts nieuwsblad (and other Gpd-news papers)
' I no longer believe that she lives still '
By Dick court country/GPD
ORANJESTAD - commissioner Jan of of the streets leads Natalee Holloway
on Aruba the study into the disappearance of the American puber. He has hope on good result for the disappeared little girl no longer. Attentively he listens to someone who telephonically tips him
concerning the disappearance of the American puber Natalee Holloway. ,,O, jaja. Nou, to helderzienden I have nothing.''
He shakes the head. ,,I have only something to facts.'' On its office in the district North on Aruba hang a time line, where course of the research to follow is; who was true on which moment, who has he who where, when seen. Thirteen years he works now on Aruba and next month he goes with
pension. From time to time there was an assassination, generally in family environment, sometimes had do that with drugs. Furthermore there this way much do not happen. ,,Arubanen are pleasant people, that shun violence.'' The last five years he has been charged with the reorganisation of
the police force on the tropical island.
- A makkie?
,,Ha. Thus I it want call. If you are here if Dutchman does not have say you: zó must it. You must involve people always.
- It is a strong community, also the justitiewereldje. Is that not risky?
,,It is a small island, everyone knows everyone. Judges, lawyers, on receptions encounter I them all.''
- Therefore also Paul of of the S., that tijdje have been stuck on suspicion of involvement at
disappearance?
,,Yes, I know him well. But say such as them here: slate pa un, slate pa tur. The law for one is the law for all. If there are reasons arrest someone, then you do that.''
- What does the disappearance of Natalee Holloway you?
,,I find it dreadful for the parents, it is not nothing if you get rid of yourself child. But I remain business: this is a research.''
- One starts become impatient.
,,A good research time asks. At haste nobody has been availed. If you will force, the chance on errors is too large.
- Do you have still hope on good result?
,,Hope must you always has, but I do not believe that we will retrieve Natalee living.''
- Why not?
,,Because I examine know.''

[SL]

Altho I (thought) I have been following this story since it broke on Trip Advisor w/ a post by "Ashlee" called 'Alert,' (her friend, a chaperone, had returned from Aruba minus a kid).... anyhoo, altho I thought I knew all the characters.. WHO is Lorenzo? I know he is allegedly the son of PvDS, but what is his role in the saga? Additionally, are there pix of him on Tickle or somewhere? I saw links (on page 8 of this thread, I believe) to Tickle accts, w/ new pix of Joran, Jaime- and others I had never seen. Were those Lorenzo's? It would be nice if someone would PM me the answer, as there is so much "avatar" chat, et al, that it is difficult to sift thru all the off topic chat for info

Thx,
SL

[HannieC]

You know gals/guys what still bothers me some....

We`ve heard int the beginning about the story that they left her at the HI and a securityguard in black clothes with a radio was there. What I think is really strange about this is.... Why would joran say 'Black clothes"
if he must know what the HI guards were wearing ( black and white) b/c he plays in different casinos on the island also in the HI so I do think that if that`s true he must know that could be tracked as Not true!

Hope you understand what i mean.....

[dragonfly]

Altho I (thought) I have been following this story since it broke on Trip Advisor w/ a post by "Ashlee" called 'Alert,' (her friend, a chaperone, had returned from Aruba minus a kid).... anyhoo, altho I thought I knew all the characters.. WHO is Lorenzo? I know he is allegedly the son of PvDS, but what is his role in the saga? Additionally, are there pix of him on Tickle or somewhere? I saw links (on page 8 of this thread, I believe) to Tickle accts, w/ new pix of Joran, Jaime- and others I had never seen. Were those Lorenzo's? It would be nice if someone would PM me the answer, as there is so much "avatar" chat, et al, that it is difficult to sift thru all the off topic chat for info

Thx,
SL

The only thing we really know about Lorenzo is that he is a pretty shady character, rumored to be pretty wealthy owning 2 homes in Aruba, rumored that his father (?) killed himself, rumored to be involved in drugs, underground parties, and porn, and rumored to be PVDS illegitimate son.  He was questioned and released right before Steve was arrested.  That's about all we know.

[Professor]

Greta Rocks.

Delayed reactions:
{{edited out namecalling}}
LOL

Mickey John was spooky powerful when he said the Aruban justice officials who arrested him would burn in the fire of judgement day.

I hope they solve this case.  Seems like more and more unfortunate decisions by Aruban law enforcement officials are coming to light.  I was loathe to judge them before not knowing all the facts before, but when they won't go into the white guy's house, "like a cowboy," but they go into the black guy's apartment with fourteen police and grab him in his BVD's and all this stuff, looks like differential treatment, and it hurt more than the guy involved.

Ah. They brough in fourteen police officers and grabbed him in his BVD's? Did Mickey say that in his interview? (I caught most of it, but I must have missed that part.) And how many days did they wait before going into the van der Sloot residence? Never mind. It doesn't matter. Long enough to dispose of an elephant, in any case.

[dragonfly]

You know gals/guys what still bothers me some....

We`ve heard int the beginning about the story that they left her at the HI and a securityguard in black clothes with a radio was there. What I think is really strange about this is.... Why would joran say 'Black clothes"
if he must know what the HI guards were wearing ( black and white) b/c he plays in different casinos on the island also in the HI so I do think that if that`s true he must know that could be tracked as Not true!

Hope you understand what i mean.....

My only thought on that was that it was done on purpose.  He probably did know what the SG at HI wore and that there was probably only one on duty in front that night and it would be easy to verify that he never saw Natalee.  But, there were guards at the concert wearing black and I think they maybe determined that Mickey's crew had worn black when they were working the Allegro.  Much easier to "never find" that security guard dressed in black and be able to verify where he was.  Make sense?  That's the only reason I can think of.

[dragonfly]

By the way, good morning HannieC!!!  How are you?  

[dragonfly]

Professor, my sentiments exactly.  It amazes me how quickly they barged in and arrested him and tore up his house taking clothes and other items, yet we waited an eternity for them to politely arrest the other 3 and look in their houses.

[bogey_blusey_chaston]

G`morning all...

NL What newspaper is that article in I can`t find it?

Your quote interest me.  If you create a theory, you fall into the trap of making the facts fit the theory.  Is That what we have done with this case? Looking at the facts, Joren had approx. 45 minutes to "do something" before he called to ask for a ride.  The only way he had more time is if he took NH back to his home with him, in which case he only had roughly three hours before the bus ride to school.  These are the questions I would have based on the facts.
a. What could have happened at that beach in 45 minutes to yield no trace of NH after it happened.
b. What evidence is there that NH was ever in JVDS home?
c.  Why would JVDS take NH to that particular beach?
d. What, in the past, has gone on if anything on that beach, late at night?
e.  Are there scurilous folks known to inhabitat that beach in the wee hours of the night?
f. Did anyone see at that beach during the time in question?
Anyways, I like your quote.  High to Netherlands.
A side note, I noticed a definite attitude of "male chauvanism" coming from the police chief who spoke with Geraldo last night on Fox.  I can only assume Aruba is a male chauvaistic society, and maybe that is not a good assumption.  However, I found it curious that the police chief stated he wanted to get NH back for the father, and the step father, and to help Tim from Equuseaarch... but I never heard him even mention Beth HT.

[Professor]

You know gals/guys what still bothers me some....

We`ve heard int the beginning about the story that they left her at the HI and a securityguard in black clothes with a radio was there. What I think is really strange about this is.... Why would joran say 'Black clothes"
if he must know what the HI guards were wearing ( black and white) b/c he plays in different casinos on the island also in the HI so I do think that if that`s true he must know that could be tracked as Not true!

Hope you understand what i mean.....

My only thought on that was that it was done on purpose.  He probably did know what the SG at HI wore and that there was probably only one on duty in front that night and it would be easy to verify that he never saw Natalee.  But, there were guards at the concert wearing black and I think they maybe determined that Mickey's crew had worn black when they were working the Allegro.  Much easier to "never find" that security guard dressed in black and be able to verify where he was.  Make sense?  That's the only reason I can think of.

That makes a lot of sense.

[HannieC]

Yes that also could be true dragonfly....  ì`m fine ty

About that article in 'Utrechts Dagblad'  Jan van der Straaten says; I know the investigation... That could also mean they have no evidence what so ever to think that she`s been found alive. B/C they have no clue whatsoever of her wherabouts no trail nothing...

[Another K in Texas]

Cat, thanks.  

The name altering was starting to bother me also.  Appreciate your hard work.

[air23ac]

AS SOON AS I HEARD THE COMMENTS WEEKS AGO ABOUT "NOT BARGING IN LIKE COWBOYS" THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT WAS, DIDN'T WYATT EARP ARREST MICKEY JOHN?

WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE SAID, WAS," WE DON'T BARGE IN ON PEOPLE WHO HAVE PRIVELEGE, WE JUST BARGE IN ON REGULAR PEOPLE"


ENOUGH OF PUSSY-FOOTING AROUND........I WANT TO SEE THE LID BLOWN OFF THIS EMBARASSMENT OF AN INVESTIGATION..........LET THE HOUSE OF CARDS START TO FALL. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO ARUBAN CITIZENS.......YOU HAVE TO BE EMBARASSED OF WHAT YOU ISLAND IS DOING HERE....IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY CITIZEN A BAD PERSON...IN FACT, I FEEL SORRY FOR THE REGULAR PERSON.........THE ELITE ARE RUINING THE ISLAND FOR THE EVERYDAY PEOPLE WHO MAKE IT GO. I HOPE THIS CASE NEVER GOES AWAY UNTIL THE GREASY,DIRTY, ARROGANT COWARDS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR NH'S DISAPPEARANCE AND WHO ABUSE THE LAW AND PRIVILEGE ARE ARRESTED.

[Catriana]

K... Thanks!   I think that people can get their point across without being disrespectful.

I have been going through the notes and editing out the name altering I see and will continue to do so, even if it makes the posters note make no sense at all!    

[dragonfly]

Air23ac, that's funny, that's exactly what I thought when they made the "cowboy" comment.  They certainly didn't have a problem with it when it came to Mickey John.  I remember the wording of that as a "pre-dawn raid".  Don't remember any "pre-dawn raids" when it came time to arrest the boys or the father.

[MsPooh]

a few days ago there was a guy mentioned with a link provided to his website...Mr.Pink I believe...on the site it was all about his porn business
and it just seems to me that it should still be explored, did we discount him or did he just fade out?

[HannieC]

Ty bogey, but the quote isn`t actually mine, but i found there to be alot of truth in that...

What also is strange is according to anita there were adults on that beach  when joran left natalee there,she says she knows for sure I don`t know what to make of that. Who are those adults? And maybe that`s why BHT said there are gonna be more arrests...maybe the ones who were there the "adults"...
And I didn`t see the interview with geraldo, is it on the fox site to see now or was it only on tv? With who did geraldo spoke then? It sounds like a real chauvinistic saying you`re right about that.