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Author Topic: RBN #33 06/29/05 Wednesday AM-Midday  (Read 180255 times)
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bobntexas
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« Reply #360 on: June 29, 2005, 11:23:26 AM »

Quote from: "MississippiGirl"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
The reporter on Fox also said IF there was a homicide.. and a body placed on the western part of the island.. it would not wash to shore...the currents are too strong.


If this is true and widely known in Aruba, why would anyone do anything with a body that they do not want found other than throw it into the ocean on that side?


However, a CNN reporter had to go a considerable distance off shore on the Western shore to get into that current. It seemed like he said 1000 yards. Otherwise, you floated back to shore. He claimed he got in the water to do this test.
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SL
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« Reply #361 on: June 29, 2005, 11:23:44 AM »

Ooops, I started a new thread w/ this a minute ago.. sorry
SL

(re-paste)

Greta's good, real good... speaking of, I sent her an e-mail Sunday.. in which I complimented her balls in posting some nasty reader e-mails. I also stated Geraldo made up drama if he couldn't find any. Anyway, ahe HERSELF.. replied to my email w/in an hour.. and it was no email typed by a sec'y, etc

Here is a paste of her blog, contradicting what Dash had said about the access from the sliding glass door:

PASTE (GretaWire Blog-Fox)



Creating a timeline is essential to an investigation. It is sometimes hard to create the perfect one but you take pieces of the puzzle and do the best you can. In creating a timeline for Natalee Holloway (search), we needed to figure out where Natalee was last seen or known to be. This includes going to the possible end of the timeline — meaning, where in her expected path that night did she not end up? In other words, we know she was expected to return to her hotel room... did she? Could she have returned after seeing Joran van der Sloot (search) and gone back out? Could someone have followed her to her room? (It was a first floor hotel room with sliding glass doors to the beach, which could be dangerous for a young woman even with roommates.)

In my mind, I have confirmed that Natalee never got back to her hotel room on May 30 — so no intruder (like the Elizabeth Smart (search) case) nabbed her. I confirmed it for myself by taking a hotel room tour with her mother (pictures attached and we showed the video last night.) In the hotel room was a bed that had not been slept in — so I assume she did not return home and then go out again after her time with Joran. (Of course I also assume the info I was told that the bed was not slept in and then made by a housekeeper is true.) The fact that her passport was left in the room also suggests to me that she intended to return — in other words, this was not a runaway situation. The same can be said for the presence in her hotel room of her wallet with money. This also rules out for me a hotel room intrusion/robbery since the money and wallet were there. The only thing missing besides Natalee was her driver's license. I assume she took her license to prove age at the club she went to and where she met Joran for the second time that night.


It was not easy to do the hotel tour with Beth, Natalee's mother. This entire month long investigation, of course, is very, very, very painful to Beth. Beth is grateful that many media outlets are here in Aruba investigating (reporting) and also putting pressure on the authorities to do more for Beth and their family. I sure wish we could find Natalee alive and well, but being optimistic is not easy. The odds are that she is dead — but the family struggles to keep hope alive. I admire them for this — they are a very nice family.

As an aside, do you want to know what bothered me most in Natalee's hotel room? The worst part of it was Beth showing me her daughter's wallet with all the crisp one dollar bills in it. Beth had gotten Natalee the ones for tips while on her Aruba holiday. For some reason standing there with Beth and looking at all those crisp ones I flashed back to the thought of how excited Beth must have been to go to a bank and get those ones for her daughter — they were so crisp and there were so many that they looked like you had to get fresh from the bank. Little did Beth know that her motherly task of getting tip money for her daughter would take such an ugly turn and I felt terrible for Beth as we thumbed through the ones.

Many on the island think the investigation is stalled. This could be true, but when an investigation is stalled you don't quit, you start over. One should start from scratch and be willing to re-think everything — including fixed ideas. This does not mean you abandon all your earlier theories and evidence but that you start anew and make sure that you have been thorough and have gotten everything you can out of every witness in the matter. That is what we did — started to investigate anew — because the investigation seems stalled to us. Of course, maybe the investigation is proceeding with great speed and we just don't realize it. But, to start over since we think it stalled, yesterday we went to Mickey John's (search) house to talk to him.

As you may recall, Mickey was one of the two guards who was arrested on June 5 (the three boys were arrested on June 9.) He is very upset about what happened to him and frankly I don't blame him. But slipping between his upset and the police "rush to judgment" arrest of him is some potentially important information. Mickey was housed in jail for a short time in the cell next to Deepak Kalpoe and spoke to him about Natalee Holloway. It appears Mickey has not volunteered this information to the police (he is mad at them) and the police have not been clever enough to go back and ask him (maybe an apology would help, too.)

Mickey did provide us some info that could be (not saying I am certain it would be) important to the investigation. We aired the interview (and that information) last night. Of course the information that Mickey did provide needs to be checked against his earlier statements to make sure that this is not an embellishment. Nothing should go unchecked — corroboration is powerful to make sure one is on the right track in investigating a case. We took still pictures from our time with him and those pictures are posted on the blog today. Click on the links in the photo box above to check out my photo essays.

We are working on a segment having to do with the tides around the island so we shot video all over the island of the water and beaches. I posted some pictures from that shoot — it looks like we are having fun at the beach but note we are in clothes, not swimsuits. Only people who are working would be dressed like that on those hot, hot beaches. It is steamy down here.

Finally, while we are here doing investigative reporting, we are not fooling ourselves and thinking we are the investigators. The police are the appropriate investigators and we are careful not to get in their way. We are simply "hitting the pavement" every day and asking questions — we are not suffering from delusions of grandeur that we will solve this disappearance. We are only seeking to bring you information and learn as much as we can about it.

END PASTE

SL
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pinemeadows
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« Reply #362 on: June 29, 2005, 11:25:53 AM »

FWIW, about 5 minutes ago on Fox, saying there's only 1 FBI agent left there...the agents who came back stated they wished they could have been more involved, but the Aruban gov't was reluctant to let them do anything.  

Also stated that some issues should/would/could have been handled differently than what LE actually did.
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Scott
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« Reply #363 on: June 29, 2005, 11:27:13 AM »

Quote from: "nisxan"
Is it just me, or does it seem a bit too convenient that MJ didn't mention anything about the "family" in his earlier statements (when it would have been useful) and only added that to his story after PVDS had been taken into custody? Seems to me that he just wants to get even or something.

Also, SC has got to be either the worst liar or the stupidest guy on the island. If there is a Gilligan, it would be SC.


It's just you...well, maybe a few others in denial as well.

Everyone made the wrongful assumption from the get go, that when Mickey said "three" came up with the story, that Satish was one of the three, but, all along, was referring to Paulus as complicit in the scheme.
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trimmer
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« Reply #364 on: June 29, 2005, 11:28:01 AM »

mishj,
I heard exactly what you heard.  Seems to me that should be enough evidence to pick up pops VDS again.
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Professor
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« Reply #365 on: June 29, 2005, 11:28:20 AM »

Quote from: "HannieC"
Professor wrote:

Quote
I don't buy it. I think it's just "island mentality." I think the Arubans were protective of Paul and Joran van der Sloot, because he was "one of them," and they didn't care how Mickey John was treated because wasn't "one of them." He was Grenadan. And I think that the corruption that we see in the police department goes way beyond just a "few bad cops." On this incestuous island, it seems to seep into every nook and cranny of island life. That is why we have Steven Croes coming forward to offer a false alibi for his homey, and why we have women lining up to hand flowers and potted plants over the van der Sloot's front gate. And that is why, when Deepaks story started to unravel, he started to refer to Joran as "the Dutch boy." (Meaning: Not from Aruba) And that is why the life of one "tourist" is less important than the "tone" used in addressing one of the island's permanent residents. Just a hunch

If you call that a hunch then you don`t read arubagirl`s statements that you are not 'one of them'if you are born in the netherlands. And corruption you base on? This 'incestuous island' Hmm maybe I don`t understand your words very good but if I am then you are a little over the top with your statements JMHO....


And that there are 'women who are lining up' to give flowers and potted plants or something....What is wrong with that? I think it`s only very nice of them to do such things.


When I refer to incestuous nature of the island mentality, it goes beyond just intermarriage, but extends to a multitude of interrelationships, where everybody is either somebody's cousin or has known the family for years and years, or has a business or professional interest in common, etc., etc.

I think the Arubans are ambiguous about the van der Sloots, since they are from the Netherlands. But it is clear that, whatever status the van der Sloots enjoy on the island, it is still better than that of mere tourist. Tourists come and go, and are of no importance whatsoever. If the life of one girl doesn't count and more than the reputation of a family of one of the residents, then what does?
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #366 on: June 29, 2005, 11:28:20 AM »

Quote from: "mariloo1"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I doubt Natalee was sold as a sex slave.  If Joran weren't the last to be seen with her, then maybe.  Also, any worth she might have had would quickly turn to a liability...no one would want to have in their possession a woman whose picture is plastered all over the world.

Joran knows what happened here and he didn't sell her.  IMO


But, think about Amie Bradley abducted in 98, seen at a bar in Aruba in 99 by a soldier.  He went to police.  The award is 250 million.  Seems like a lot of money but evidently not enough to bring her back.  Sex slavery is big business.


sadly it is not proven Amy was abducted, and she was in a different place.
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nisxan
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« Reply #367 on: June 29, 2005, 11:28:48 AM »

Ok, just checking...

 Wink
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Whodunit?
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« Reply #368 on: June 29, 2005, 11:30:13 AM »

I heard it too...looking now for video of it on foxnews.com.  



Quote from: "mishj"
I heard Mickey say that he wasnt sure who else was considered to be "family" but that the father was definitely involved.  This was on Greta - how come I am seemingly the only one who heard that statement??
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mishj
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WWW
« Reply #369 on: June 29, 2005, 11:30:42 AM »

I like Greta's summary - thought others here may want to read it
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161025,00.html
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Scott
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« Reply #370 on: June 29, 2005, 11:30:49 AM »

Quote from: "KerinTX"

Yes they did, Professor. The "lead in" story was....next we have an interview with one of the released security guards, Mickey John, who said that Paulus VDS was involved in making up the cover story. Then they went to the tape. It is the misleading lead-in that infuriates me!


While it is admittedly distorting the precise language Mickey used, please share with us any other plausible inference in the use of the word "family" that does NOT implicate Paulus as well.
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jac723
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« Reply #371 on: June 29, 2005, 11:31:02 AM »

Quote from: "mishj"
I heard Mickey say that he wasnt sure who else was considered to be "family" but that the father was definitely involved.  This was on Greta - how come I am seemingly the only one who heard that statement??


I did see the interview yesterday.  Mickey was saying at first-Deepak told him that the 3 of them sat down to come up with the story.  Greta asked, who.  Mickey told Greta Deepak said him(Deepak), the dutch boy and the dutch dad/the family.  Then she wanted clarification, dad or family.  Mickey told her family.

One thing that strikes me ad being odd.  When you are friends with someone, you call them by their first name or nickname.  Everytime we here Deepak talking he always (well, seems to) refer to Joran as the dutch boy  Why is that?
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Jennifer
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« Reply #372 on: June 29, 2005, 11:31:33 AM »

I've been thinking...

Mickey Johns comments to Greta might well open the door to bringing Anita in as a witness/suspect.  Not that I think she's involved...but, since Johns refers to "family"....she could/should be brought in for questioning about any possible "family" conversations took place after the evening Natalee went missing.

I think that woman would CRACK big time under bright lights and interrogation.
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bamabelle11
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« Reply #373 on: June 29, 2005, 11:31:42 AM »

Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I doubt Natalee was sold as a sex slave.  If Joran weren't the last to be seen with her, then maybe.  Also, any worth she might have had would quickly turn to a liability...no one would want to have in their possession a woman whose picture is plastered all over the world.

Joran knows what happened here and he didn't sell her.  IMO


But, think about Amie Bradley abducted in 98, seen at a bar in Aruba in 99 by a soldier.  He went to police.  The award is 250 million.  Seems like a lot of money but evidently not enough to bring her back.  Sex slavery is big business.


sadly it is not proven Amy was abducted, and she was in a different place.


Not 250 million... 250 THOUSAND... and she was seen in Curaccu not Aruba
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #374 on: June 29, 2005, 11:32:36 AM »

Quote from: "Charmz"
Quote from: "nikkibnurse"
whew..been stuck in avatar hell..lol..thanks kerin and nancy..hope i can get my monkey up...lol

OK, so i have one question, and please forgive me ifthis has already been hashed and rehashed, but, Mr PINK...his websites that we saw yesterday afternoon...there was a mr pink contributing to the forum last night....tell me..same one?  Shocked


What does the Mr. Pink have to do with Natalee.  Please forgive the ignorance, but I don't see how it figures in here.


In my opinion, I totally agree Charmz
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #375 on: June 29, 2005, 11:33:59 AM »

Quote from: "jac723"
Quote from: "mishj"
I heard Mickey say that he wasnt sure who else was considered to be "family" but that the father was definitely involved.  This was on Greta - how come I am seemingly the only one who heard that statement??


I did see the interview yesterday.  Mickey was saying at first-Deepak told him that the 3 of them sat down to come up with the story.  Greta asked, who.  Mickey told Greta Deepak said him(Deepak), the dutch boy and the dutch dad/the family.  Then she wanted clarification, dad or family.  Mickey told her family.

One thing that strikes me ad being odd.  When you are friends with someone, you call them by their first name or nickname.  Everytime we here Deepak talking he always (well, seems to) refer to Joran as the dutch boy  Why is that?


Yes, but Johns was clear whatever "family" meant it DID include Dad.
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Whodunit?
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« Reply #376 on: June 29, 2005, 11:34:21 AM »

Didn't she disappear in between the islands?  Like she was there when they left Aruba, but not when they got to Curacao?



Quote from: "bamabelle11"
Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "mariloo1"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
I doubt Natalee was sold as a sex slave.  If Joran weren't the last to be seen with her, then maybe.  Also, any worth she might have had would quickly turn to a liability...no one would want to have in their possession a woman whose picture is plastered all over the world.

Joran knows what happened here and he didn't sell her.  IMO


But, think about Amie Bradley abducted in 98, seen at a bar in Aruba in 99 by a soldier.  He went to police.  The award is 250 million.  Seems like a lot of money but evidently not enough to bring her back.  Sex slavery is big business.


sadly it is not proven Amy was abducted, and she was in a different place.


Not 250 million... 250 THOUSAND... and she was seen in Curaccu not Aruba
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Ting
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« Reply #377 on: June 29, 2005, 11:35:17 AM »

Quote from: "KackyLacky"
Quote from: "Ting"
Quote
SC "just wanted to meet" deepak and offered up a false statement to LE in order to be with him.


Now that is just strange. Even on his way to the airport, annoyed with Greta, Steve said he knew Deepak as a client. Not clear if he meant that he, Steve, uses the internet cafe, or if Deepak had used Steve as a DJ but  "wanting to meet him" just sounds bizarre on a tiny island that does not have hundreds of internet cafes or party boat DJs.

Wouldn't most people who ever used either cafe or boat know both Steve and Deepak as clients?


I know, but Julia says SC did not know deepak, and wanted to meet him, he had heard deepak on the phone, and SC walked up to him and said, yea I saw that girl stumble that night in front of HI---what is even more interesting is that deepak knew it was a lie when SC said that, and he let SC go forth to LE with the lie.


I have no pet theory, and take pains to keep an open mind but this one rings about as solid as the Ethiopian tribesmen matrimonial abduction.
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friend of monkeys
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« Reply #378 on: June 29, 2005, 11:35:18 AM »

Quote from: "nisxan"
Is it just me, or does it seem a bit too convenient that MJ didn't mention anything about the "family" in his earlier statements (when it would have been useful) and only added that to his story after PVDS had been taken into custody? Seems to me that he just wants to get even or something.

He is surprised that this is news to us at all.  He says "everybody know from start judge know somethin the way he running from the cameras"
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peace to all
Daniel
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« Reply #379 on: June 29, 2005, 11:36:51 AM »

Quote from: "Professor"
Tourists come and go, and are of no importance whatsoever. If the life of one girl doesn't count and more than the reputation of a family of one of the residents, then what does?

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of hospitality. If anything, tourists (guests) get a better treatment than others. Thousands of locals have been looking for the girl.

Are you always so mistrusting or only when people foreign to you are involved?
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