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Author Topic: RBN #34 06/29/05 Wednesday - PM  (Read 560162 times)
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klaasend
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« Reply #120 on: June 29, 2005, 06:23:08 PM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Hello all! ((((Hugs)))

I have missed you guys! I have much reading to catch up on!  Wink

How did your surgery go CaliGirl?  Hope you are mending well!  Very Happy
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coco
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« Reply #121 on: June 29, 2005, 06:23:49 PM »

Expert is Theodore Simon btw, - a defense attorney who has worked in Aruba.

Abrams says "all they have on Dad is what in the states we'd call it legal advice" and says "they don't have much on Dad."

Simon says "part of the info from Mickey Johns also suggests that the boys suspected Natalee would turn up in a few days"
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Chaumes
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« Reply #122 on: June 29, 2005, 06:24:09 PM »

Quote from: "phl"

Ok, let me clarify... this high standard that they are NOT allowed to misspeak, say something wrong, sweat too much etc when we allow the same to happen to the family and friends and think nothing of it.

The same criteria do not need be applied to individuals in the different circumstances you reference.  Here, suspects and friends, family of victim.  If friends/family were also suspects, then your reasoning holds.  However, they are not.  Separately there is an issue of context (at least regarding witness stories).  Discrepancies among story versions of other students on trip have not occurred with all 130 having placed themselves in one car with her.  As nancy drew mentioned, "apples and oranges."

And please...find me a young teenage boy who doesn't lie!

Again, this is not about all teenage boys.  What about or whether every teenage boy on this planet lies is of no relevance to a teenage boy in Joran Van der Sloot's situation.  His circumstance as a suspect changes the rules that apply to him.

Your logic would essentially render lying by anyone held as a suspect of a crime immaterial.  While all lies of people held as suspects are not proof of the suspected crimes, you cannot say "Everyone (innocent or guilty) lies, ergo lying must be ignored."
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iquitos
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« Reply #123 on: June 29, 2005, 06:24:16 PM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Hello all! ((((Hugs)))

I have missed you guys! I have much reading to catch up on!  Wink


hi cali we really did miss you.  this place was not the same in your absence.
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #124 on: June 29, 2005, 06:24:47 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Hello all! ((((Hugs)))

I have missed you guys! I have much reading to catch up on!  Wink

How did your surgery go CaliGirl?  Hope you are mending well!  Very Happy


It went well, thank you for asking! .. pain free so far with exception of where the surgery was lol Hopefully I will able to monkey around more lol
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puggywug
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« Reply #125 on: June 29, 2005, 06:24:49 PM »

CALIGIRL~
Hi, hope you are feeling better!  Here's some new news:

Quote from: "puggywug"
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Prosecutor says PVDS confirms he told the boys 'no body, no charges' (or words to that effect.)  Legal conflict seems to be is that more than basic legal advice?

WHOA!  For real?  PVDS told the boys "no body, no charges"????
Now, why would he say that unless the boys are involved with something sinister?
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A Pug in a monkey Suit!
Ting
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« Reply #126 on: June 29, 2005, 06:24:55 PM »

Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Prosecutor says PVDS confirms he told the boys 'no body, no charges' (or words to that effect.)  Legal conflict seems to be is that more than basic legal advice?


That in itself proves some knowledge on his part and some guilt on theirs.  Just my opinion, of course.  But there are a lot of things being said and done in this case the people who are innocent just don't normally say or do.


Innocent of what, though? Just for the sake of argument, let's assume that Deepak and Joran are telling the truth. As soon as they realized Natalee did not show up, they might all feel some guilt.

Deepak, for dropping her off with Joran, perhaps when he knew that one or both of them were under the influence of alcohol and/or recreational drugs, Joran because he left her alone on a beach, whether there were people there or not, that is not only a despicable thing to do, but even a 17 year old boy would know that chances are, she is going to have some unpleasantness, at the very least.

But, once again, young girls do not disappear often on Aruba. When you are young, you tend to think in terms of what usually happens.

Paulus, on the other hand, is older. He is more likely to be thinking of contingencies, even though it would be unusual for someone to kill a tourist, Paulus would know that you can't rule anything out, and by the time of the conversation, the boys themselves might be getting scared that "something bad" had happened to Natalee, and expressed this what-if, to which Paulus would tell them no body, no charges.

His saying that does not prove that they killed her, or that he knew that they did, only that the possibility that someone might have was being considered.
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coco
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« Reply #127 on: June 29, 2005, 06:25:41 PM »

Aruban attorney on Abrams says it is important that Prosecutor says there is no evidence that crime was commited, there is suspicion that crime was commited but no proof. He also says that PVDS was telling them what the legal proceedure was after watching PVDS interview on Dutch tv.
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #128 on: June 29, 2005, 06:25:44 PM »

Quote from: "iquitos"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Hello all! ((((Hugs)))

I have missed you guys! I have much reading to catch up on!  Wink


hi cali we really did miss you.  this place was not the same in yur absence.


Aww thank you Inquitos!

I really did miss you guys! I had withdrawls! lmao
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martin connahey
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« Reply #129 on: June 29, 2005, 06:26:17 PM »

Thanks for your response Thirdstrike. To look at this story fr girl's family's perspective, which is a lot of what goes on at Scaredmondeys, is indeed informative and relevant, but not objective. That is the point of Malkin's post (and most of those others I listed).

Does that means Aruba story is not important? Of course not. I'm merely pointing to the (now) tons of press about how it is being covered out of proportion compared to other news, which is certainly a valid avenue of inquiry. Aruba: Newsworthy, yes. Worthy of the billions of words which have been devoted to it, likely not.

One could put your question, Thirdstrike, in another way: How does the parent of a recently-killed soldier feel about the coverage of Aruba's missing-person case? The subjective positon could be endlessly switched to include other victims and families of victims, many of whom would say that this case is over-reported. The main point of my post (which listed the links) was to get that perspective into the stream of discussion here.

Again, thanks for your thoughtful and considerate response/inquiry. (sometimes "thoughtful" and "considerate" get short shrift on this board, thus your post is truly appreciated).

Dittos.
--MC
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KackyLacky
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« Reply #130 on: June 29, 2005, 06:26:49 PM »

Quote from: "AnnaMaria"
Says:

June 28th, 2005 at 12:28 am
Okay, now Iím totally goosebumped and canít sleep. Was looking for rave party info in Aruba and stumbled across this. It doesnít give out who posted it but maybe the site owners can find out if we ask them?:

http://www.amiright.com/parody/60s/buffalospringfield9.shtml

ďFor What Itís WorthĒ Based on the performance by Buffalo Springfield
ďFor What Itís Worth In ArubaĒ Parody by Malcolm Higgins

who would have known I might return from the fishing trip with one that skirts the line of good taste huh?.. I mean who woulda thunk?

thereís something happened down there
dna, and some blood and some hair
thereís a man, who now wants to confess
sayin he is under duress
I think itís time to stop searchin, sheíll be found,
just get him to show that mound

allegations being drawn,
they ainít right, no they are wrong
news peaople speaking their minds
CNN and Fox are so unkind
I think itís time to stop searchin, sheíll be found,
just get him to show that mound

crime detection canít be beat
a thousand searchers in the heat
poking shrubs, and turning up stones
is she here or will we find bones?
I think itís time to stop searchin, sheíll be found,
just get him to show that mound

now reflections run so deep
graduation, perpetual sleep
it starts when you party and rave
meet the wrong guys, youíll find your grave

I think itís time to stop searchin, sheíll be found,
just get him to show that mound
I think itís time to stop searchin, sheíll be found,
just get him to show that mound
I think itís time to stop searchin, sheíll be found,
just get him to show that mound


Isn't this weird?  Another mystery. I am trying to figure out the shango thing out. I found on the Main Monkey page
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dragonfly
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« Reply #131 on: June 29, 2005, 06:27:40 PM »

Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Hello all! ((((Hugs)))

I have missed you guys! I have much reading to catch up on!  Wink


Hey you!!! How are you feeling?  Everything okay?
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coco
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« Reply #132 on: June 29, 2005, 06:28:20 PM »

Abrams is saying that what Paulus did was just what criminal defence lawyers do all the time here in the US and though it is frustrating for the prosecutor and to Natalee's family but is not illegal. Abrams also finds his waiver of the right not to testify against his son and that he also waived his right to not testify against himself.

Ted Simon is saying this is important - means that PVDS apparently does not know anything that is illegal. It does not mean tht the boys are guilty or innocent.
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #133 on: June 29, 2005, 06:30:04 PM »

Quote from: "puggywug"
CALIGIRL~
Hi, hope you are feeling better!  Here's some new news:

Quote from: "puggywug"
Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Prosecutor says PVDS confirms he told the boys 'no body, no charges' (or words to that effect.)  Legal conflict seems to be is that more than basic legal advice?

WHOA!  For real?  PVDS told the boys "no body, no charges"????
Now, why would he say that unless the boys are involved with something sinister?


I wasn't too shocked when I heard he and Steve were set free.

What bothers me most about this situation is no one can get rid of every speck of evidence. Blood, if any, doesn't just clean up and go away. There is always the tiniest piece of evidence left behind. I am baffled by not one agency, Aruban, FBI, Equusearch, etc able to find something. (then again, I go back to...are we allowed to know?)
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klaasend
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« Reply #134 on: June 29, 2005, 06:30:39 PM »

Quote from: "coco"
Abrams is saying that what Paulus did was just what criminal defence lawyers do all the time here in the US and though it is frustrating for the prosecutor and to Natalee's family but is not illegal. Abrams also finds his waiver of the right not to testify against his son and that he also waived his right to not testify against himself.

Ted Simon is saying this is important - means that PVDS apparently does not know anything that is illegal. It does not mean tht the boys are guilty or innocent.

Or, very cleverly wants it to appear that way Shocked
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CaliGirl
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« Reply #135 on: June 29, 2005, 06:31:11 PM »

Quote from: "dragonfly"
Quote from: "CaliGirl"
Hello all! ((((Hugs)))

I have missed you guys! I have much reading to catch up on!  Wink


Hey you!!! How are you feeling?  Everything okay?

I am good, sore, but good! lol

:::keeping her fingers crossed::::
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #136 on: June 29, 2005, 06:32:33 PM »

Quote from: "coco"
Abrams is saying that what Paulus did was just what criminal defence lawyers do all the time here in the US and though it is frustrating for the prosecutor and to Natalee's family but is not illegal. Abrams also finds his waiver of the right not to testify against his son and that he also waived his right to not testify against himself.

Ted Simon is saying this is important - means that PVDS apparently does not know anything that is illegal. It does not mean tht the boys are guilty or innocent.


ALTHOUGH,  the prosecutor made it clear she believes he went beyond giving the boys legal advice...she believes he did obstruct justice.
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Angiex911dsptchr
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« Reply #137 on: June 29, 2005, 06:35:00 PM »

Hey Cali~Girl.. welcome back chicky!!!
Well.. I have been away from my PC for hours.. and I have read a little.. and this is the first time I think I have actually asked this question myself.. lol
Any new news??? I wasnt around the tv.. and can say I havnt read all posts since I left at 1 this afternoon..  Any info is DEEPLY apprecaited!!
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #138 on: June 29, 2005, 06:36:03 PM »

I disagree with whoever said this interview was really not much.

It's the first time the prosecution has shared anything about the investigation.  Basically they don't have much, and it could take weeks to gather more information, etc., she believes the father obstructed justice, he was brought in not due to that but as a suspect in the case.

There is more and a study of the transcript is necessary.  IMO it's a bombshell interview.
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KerinTX
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« Reply #139 on: June 29, 2005, 06:36:24 PM »

Well isn't it easy to say "No body, no crime" if YOU helped cover for the crime???

{{{{{{{{{{{CALI}}}}}}}}}}}} My partner in crime!!!

How are you, girl??
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"What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"
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