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Author Topic: RBN #34 06/29/05 Wednesday - PM  (Read 561327 times)
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LemonDrop
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« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2005, 06:00:38 PM »

Quote from: "Shataken"
The perfect crime in Aruba seems to be easy.  Kill someone, make sure the body is never found then don't say a word for 116 days.  No Body, No Crime.


Are you saying that if a body is found on day 117, you cannot be charged?   Shocked
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boxopen
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« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2005, 06:01:12 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "hugo de groot"
Schout bij nacht Karel Doorman's legendarische laatste woorden toen hij de geallieerde vloot de Java zee instuurde om de Japanse overmacht te confronteren en suicidaal de ondergang tegemoet te varen om de vaderlandsche eer te verdedigen
You want to repeat this in English.  The translator doesn't make any sense!
Schout at night Karel Doorman's legendary last words then he the allied fleet the Java sent in sea to face the perdition Japanese supremacy and suicidaal to sail to defend honour the vaderlandsche

Doorman became a Dutch maritime icon, because of his last words to the fleet: "Ik val aan, volg mij!" (I am attacking, follow me). In reality he only issued the command All ships follow me to prevent confusion when the damaged HMS Exeter sailed back to harbor on its own. Doorman just wanted to indicate that his ships should not follow the Exeter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Doorman
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nancy_drew
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« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2005, 06:01:32 PM »

Quote
Do you really believe the VDS family is not under the same amount of enormous pressure that the Holloway family is?


There's one big difference, they know where their son is.
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phl
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« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2005, 06:01:33 PM »

Quote from: "Shataken"
Quote from: "phl"
Quote from: "Chaumes"
Quote from: "phl"

What's good for one should be good for the other.

No, not really.  The others students on the trip and Natalee's mother are not suspects in her disappearance by virtue of not having been the last people known to have seen her before she vanished from the face of the earth.

"What's good for one... " might be the most illogical opinion I've seen expressed in this case.


Ok, let me clarify, when I said "what's good for one..." I meant that why are we holding the VDS to this high standard that they are NOT allowed to misspeak, say something wrong, sweat too much etc when we allow the same to happen to the family and friends and think nothing of it.

Do you really believe the VDS family is not under the same amount of enormous pressure that the Holloway family is? I for one do not. It's a different situation for each, same amount of stress and pressure.

And please...find me a young teenage boy who doesn't lie!

I say we all wait for the evidence to come out before hanging this kid. So far, he's committed the absolute perfect crime. Pretty amazing for a teenager dont you think? I for one don't think he's THAT perfect.



The perfect crime in Aruba seems to be easy.  Kill someone, make sure the body is never found then don't say a word for 116 days.  No Body, No Crime.


Wow! Didn't realize you had the inside track! How are you so sure she has been killed?? Why would you even say things like that?
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coco
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« Reply #84 on: June 29, 2005, 06:02:05 PM »

Karen Jannsen interview on Dan Abrams Now
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Fluffy Monkey
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« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2005, 06:02:11 PM »

Dan Abrhams  show on MSNBC has info from the Aruban prosecutor on his show right now (East Coast)

FM
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DivaToo
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« Reply #86 on: June 29, 2005, 06:02:42 PM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote from: "phl"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote
What's good for one should be good for the other. It's the only way to make sense out of this whole thing and find this poor girl.


Nope. You're wrong. You are trying to compare apples to oranges.  It just doesn't work.  The people you accuse of changing their stories aren't the ones last seen with Natalee, they aren't in jail, they didn't say they left Natalee at the beach...or first that they took her back to the hotel. They're in trauma and feeling deep loss...look that up...it's in the books.

These kids took a trip to Aruba...their friend is missing.  Period. End of story.

AND, I hate to tell you but you are NOT the FBI...you are not in a position to do professional interrogations in a fair and balanced fashion.

If there's one piece of evidence that Natalee's family or friends are somehow involved in this...Go for it....until then understand and know what you're talking about before making gross assumptions.


Excuse me Nancy Drew, but I never claimed to be the FBI...but I do believe things should be looked at in a fair and balanced fashion, unlike yourself. I'm assuming from your statment that is what you are trying to say?

I never even implied yet alone stated I thought her family was involved in her disappearance, however I DO NOT agree with the way they are torturing another family based on their intuitions. Maybe they have facts that we don't know about, but that is not coming across the newswire. So until it does, why shouldn't EVERY single statement or person involved in this be scrutinized?

And I highly doubt that my stating the obvious (their statements have changed on many occasion) is me making gross assumptions. I'm just stating what the news stations report. What it means...is not my job to figure out.


It is your job to know what you're talking about.  Joran's family is being tortured?  That's what happens when you don't spit out the truth about a missing person...when you were the last person on this earth to be seen with her...that's reality.  Joran is in jail for good reason.  He may not stay there.  But, the fact remains, given the evidence he was the last person to see her alive.

I feel bad for the others in his family, but this is life.


Torturing the VDS fam? I wou1d do the same thing had I been her Mom. None of us know exact1y what was said b/c none of us were there . A1ot of what BHT is going on is mother1y intuition, and what she has seen w/ her own eyes.... Torturing? I dont think so. Torture is what Beth faces 24/7 whie Joran keeps changing his story.

Note: using 1 b/c there is sudden1y something wrong w/ one of my keys
Sad Crying or Very sad
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Praying for Natalee's safe return & comfort for her family
klaasend
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« Reply #87 on: June 29, 2005, 06:02:43 PM »

Quote from: "boxopen"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "hugo de groot"
Schout bij nacht Karel Doorman's legendarische laatste woorden toen hij de geallieerde vloot de Java zee instuurde om de Japanse overmacht te confronteren en suicidaal de ondergang tegemoet te varen om de vaderlandsche eer te verdedigen
You want to repeat this in English.  The translator doesn't make any sense!
Schout at night Karel Doorman's legendary last words then he the allied fleet the Java sent in sea to face the perdition Japanese supremacy and suicidaal to sail to defend honour the vaderlandsche


Doorman became a Dutch maritime icon, because of his last words to the fleet: "Ik val aan, volg mij!" (I am attacking, follow me)

Thanks  Very Happy  But I'm still scratching my head, lol Laughing
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phl
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« Reply #88 on: June 29, 2005, 06:02:56 PM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote
Do you really believe the VDS family is not under the same amount of enormous pressure that the Holloway family is?


There's one big difference, they know where their son is.


Now Nancy...finish reading my whole sentence.....I said it's a DIFFERENT situation for each.

And their son is about to lose the rest of his life over something that NOONE has proof he did. No...that wouldn't be a cause for stress if he were your son right?? Certainly would be for me. I'd be out of my mind.
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dragonfly
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« Reply #89 on: June 29, 2005, 06:03:24 PM »

Quote from: "coco"
Karen Jannsen interview on Dan Abrams Now


Can you fill us in?  I can't watch right now.  The kids have to have their turn with the TV so I get it for Greta!!  LOL.
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Catriana
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« Reply #90 on: June 29, 2005, 06:03:46 PM »

Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote
Do you really believe the VDS family is not under the same amount of enormous pressure that the Holloway family is?


There's one big difference, they know where their son is.


Amen!  And that is a HUGE difference.
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martin connahey
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« Reply #91 on: June 29, 2005, 06:03:52 PM »

Dittos to you phl. Hang in there.

-MC
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writenow
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« Reply #92 on: June 29, 2005, 06:03:53 PM »

Quote from: "medleyrelay"
You do not have to take AP exams when you take AP classes!!!  Both of my sons - 4.20 students - took several AP classes their senior year and did not take AP exams - especially since Joran was getting a full ride at college - he did not need to be in any hurry to buypass classes - which is the reason you sometimes take the AP tests so you can skip classes in college

i realize that most of you on here have totally burnt this young man at the stake before he has been convicted - but let us be fair as to what we charge him with - taking or not taking AP exams should not be one of these things!


My point is, since he didn't take the AP exams, he HAD to take the finals from Friday June 3-Wed. June 8. He was arrested the morning of the 9th.
The police let valuable time and critical evidence slip through their fingers because, I believe, they didn't want to hurt their friend's son's chances of attending college in the fall. He HAD to graduate to attend college. He COULDN'T graduate if he missed any of his finals from June 3-8.
So the police compromised a kidnapping investigation because they didn't want to mess up poor little Joran's finals' schedule.

I think that is lousy police/detective work. You don't work a kidnapping investigation where time is critically important around a suspect's exam schedule. And yet it appears that's exactly what they did.
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momto5
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« Reply #93 on: June 29, 2005, 06:03:57 PM »

Quote from: "phl"
Quote from: "Chaumes"
Quote from: "phl"

What's good for one should be good for the other.

No, not really.  The others students on the trip and Natalee's mother are not suspects in her disappearance by virtue of not having been the last people known to have seen her before she vanished from the face of the earth.

"What's good for one... " might be the most illogical opinion I've seen expressed in this case.


Ok, let me clarify, when I said "what's good for one..." I meant that why are we holding the VDS to this high standard that they are NOT allowed to misspeak, say something wrong, sweat too much etc when we allow the same to happen to the family and friends and think nothing of it.

Do you really believe the VDS family is not under the same amount of enormous pressure that the Holloway family is? I for one do not. It's a different situation for each, same amount of stress and pressure.

And please...find me a young teenage boy who doesn't lie!

I say we all wait for the evidence to come out before hanging this kid. So far, he's committed the absolute perfect crime. Pretty amazing for a teenager dont you think? I for one don't think he's THAT perfect.


I dont think this crime was a perfect crime, but anyone can clean up evidence when your given over a week to do so.
I for one try hard to stay out of the conversations that crucify anyone, but have seen some rather harsh judgements on the board also. The fact is though you have a 17 yr old boy, who was by all accounts and purposes was given alot of leeway in his life. He has changed his story, more then once. He lied straight face to Natalees parents about where he last saw her. Really, things dont add up for him. If he is lying for some other reason, then maybe itll come out. Overall though I think we can all admit this is rather strange behavior for an innocent person. I honestly can care less how much his dad sweats on TV, that tells me nothing. However the lack of eye contact I noticed while giving interviews tells more IMO. I really hope they find Natalee, because then all these endless arguments might be answered by evidence.
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"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. " ~ Abraham Lincoln
coco
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« Reply #94 on: June 29, 2005, 06:05:30 PM »

Jansen is saying they have no specific proof that Natalee is dead, no specific evidence. She says investigation is not at an impasse. She says they are looking carefully at the communications between the 3 boys now - text messages, etc.
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momto5
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« Reply #95 on: June 29, 2005, 06:05:37 PM »

Quote from: "Catriana"
Quote from: "nancy_drew"
Quote
Do you really believe the VDS family is not under the same amount of enormous pressure that the Holloway family is?


There's one big difference, they know where their son is.


Amen!  And that is a HUGE difference.

I second that Amen. Atleast they can talk to their son. Even if as his mother said its only ten min a day or at a time. Thats ten minutes more then Natalees parents have.
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"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. " ~ Abraham Lincoln
Fluffy Monkey
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« Reply #96 on: June 29, 2005, 06:05:44 PM »

Wow..  prosecutor says they have the content of text messaging and chat sessions  from the suspects.
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klaasend
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« Reply #97 on: June 29, 2005, 06:07:05 PM »

Quote from: "Fluffy Monkey"
Wow..  prosecutor says they have the content of text messaging and chat sessions  from the suspects.

Good, maybe now we'll get somewhere!
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thirdstrike
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« Reply #98 on: June 29, 2005, 06:07:14 PM »

Quote from: "martin connahey"
Aruba case is still a major story in US media, and not only in terms of tv minutes devoted and words printed. It ranks even higher when one tallies the "stories about the story," which are now literally everywhere in cyberspace and elsewhere.

I've searched, nearly fruitlessly, for editors/commentators/bloggers who devote serious argumentation to the case FOR more coverage. Reminds me of the time during Lewinsky-gate when press-about-the-press eclipsed the original piece, no pun intended. It's hard to measure objectively, but I think Aruba story has reached, or is about to reach, critical mass in this respect. Consider:

Kevin Craver's listing of those who say "end it," (coverage), at http://www.rathergate.com/?p=898

Arianna Huffington says "just say NO-ruba" on the topic, advising a cold-turkey treatment. This is wothy of closer inspection, given Arianna's high tolerance for non-news news. Read at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/arianna-huffington/just-say-noruba_2928.html

Weighing in for the second time, Michelle Malkin discusses the story about the story at http://michellemalkin.com/archives/002875.htm

Rather-gate's original piece, "End It," is at http://www.rathergate.com/?p=893

Educational reading, indeed, for many who've ingested nothing but Arubanews/MPWW for the last month. At the risk of offending those who are emotionally tied to this case, whether out of boredom or psychopathy or both, I decided to check in and provide some perspective. Granted, learning about opinions other than one's own can in some cases be disturbing, so I advise you to be careful, read slowly, and be ready for diverse thought.

Sincerely,

Martin Connahey


You're missing the main point here.

Sure, I can understand the frustration with people who are not "emotionally tied" to this case, and would like the focus of the MSM to be on news more "relevant" to today's political landscape.  But, try and look at it from the missing girl's family for a second...

I think the main reason there is any real movement by the Aruban authorities in their efforts to find Natalee is the pressure applied by the American media.  Without the Fox News' of the world, this case would be treated as just another American tourist gone missing, and not a second glance would be made.  If you could indulge is for a second, why isn't this case news worthy again??

What it all boils down to is a simple matter of supply and demand.  There must be a good reason this case has captured the imagination of not only the American public, but the public of the world at large.

Just my 2 cents,

Strike
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Ting
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« Reply #99 on: June 29, 2005, 06:08:22 PM »

I would not get too excited about Shango. Nothing in those posts says anything that has not been said in plain language or hinted at on this and other boards; specifically that allowing the investigation to go down certain roads could run into problems with high-dollar business activity, international in both scope and political sensitivity.
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