RBN #36 06/30/05 Thursday-DAY

[heavyheart]

Kelly, It is the same Here in the USA. Even Scott Peterson's Mom can Visit him and he is Convicted  of Murder 1.
They even try to keep the convicts near Home to make visits Easy for Familys.

I got the impression also that since pvds was released that the argument they used to not allow visits was no longer gonna fly. Obviously the judge in the case didnt feel there was enough to keep pvds, and therefore Joran being a minor would be allow to visit with his parents. Seemed like what was happening based on what I saw on TV anyway.

Anyone think there might be something between the new judge that was brought in (Why was a new one needed in the first place?) and PVDS?  

Do these guys play golf or hang out at the country club together?  Are they part of the same good ol' boy network?

[Just Wunderin']

Well, I've finally got to say something...I've been reading for days...last time I got flamed...so I'll try to be more politically correct this time.

The VDS's have both lied, the Kalpoes have lied, Steve Croes lied (what planet is he from?), this Charles Croes fellow is questionable--his story does not jibe with the Twitty's--so someone is lieing (my inference here is CC), my impression is that most of the government representatives, Aruba news folks, and Aruban attorneys are diluting the truth.  The police commissioner is obviously biased.  My point?  All of the above do not treat the truth as if it were a virtue!

My heart goes out to Mr. Holloway, who is obviously not in the "Twitty" loop.

Until everyone starts telling the truth and being sincere in their efforts Natalee will never be found (alive or dead).  If in fact she is alive, by her own actions or the actions of others, she will not or they will not come forward with all of the hipcrosy involved in this case.  If she is dead, God forbid, finding her is severely impaired due to the focus being diverted to the perps.

All I can say is I pray for Natalee.

[Kelly]

Kelly, It is the same Here in the USA. Even Scott Peterson's Mom can Visit him and he is Convicted  of Murder 1.
They even try to keep the convicts near Home to make visits Easy for Familys.

Yeah that is true , but everything is  MONITORED.................... Huge difference here! HUGE>

I am not against them being able to have vistors by any means..but Noone can agree wit the factt hat the parents can go in there..talk to their son about anything..........and authorites cant hear anythin.......what do you think the parents are tellin him.........Tell the truth and do the right thing? BULL they are givin him advice on how to keep quiet, not panic, and wait it out til monday....and c what happens there...and go from there

If you believe in Democracy and civil rights you have to support these simple human rights.  You might "hope" in this situation they couldn't talk to each other...but, there is a presumption of innocence and with that comes the right to have visitation and legal counsel.

If you had a loved one hauled in a crime they didn't commit you would want to visit and you would definitly want them to have legal counsel AND honor the rights every person has in this country.

We may not like Joran and think he is guilty.  But, fortunately popularity and perceived guilt do not convict.

I have had a family member go to jail, and yes i was happy that i could see them, but i still udnerstood thatour converstaions were monitored...if joran and his family are so innocent why the change in stories.......if you are not tryin to sneak info in, why should you care if you are being watched? i just dont agree that you arent watched during your visits...thats all i am saying..im gettin like jumped on hahah for something im not even neccesarily agreein wiht..i just think that for protection to the investigation people should not be able to talk freely wiht people who are being held..thats all  

[gaijin]

I'm waiting to hear back.  I got a long email when I first wrote her...but, haven't heard since.  I'll keep ya posted.[/quote]

OK, tks.

[momto5]

Kelly,
Your right, here in the US they would allow visits, but all visits and communications aside from legal counsel is recorded or monitored in the states. Also the mail coming in and out would be read if it was here. However also here in the states I have heard them say many times they might not have been arrested yet.
You know one thing that crossed my mind last night when they said nothing was being monitored was this. What IF and I know its a big if, they are saying on TV it isnt being monitored in hope that pvds does say something or cross the line, all the while maybe they actually are taping it? You know to make him believe he could say whatever without anyone knowing. Probably wishful thinking, but you never know since they did apparently tap their phones before.

Yes momto5 agree, But (lol) the minute authorites were made aware that those boys were the last three to be seen with her, they would have taken them in PC (protective custody) and held them and searched, homes, phone records, computers, cars, clothes...etc...then if nothing came up, then yes, in our system, we would need to let them go.......but someting would have been found if it was done right away..yes what is done is done, so why do i keep fallin back to that, bc its gets to me soooo bad, lol..... al they had to do was gather evidence immediately! But oh well, they now have to work with what they have....

That gets me too. I know here they would have been questioned of course, and taken evidence from the car, clothing etc etc. I think they screwed up badly when this didnt happen. Any bruises or anything on them could easily heal on a week. I  mean I said before and Ill say again. I dont think if they are guilty that they are genius at all. This isnt a perfect crime. They just had more then a week to get rid of evidence.

[sandraK]

How many visits have you had to a prision?
Trust me,they Not Monitor Every Word..
It's a Big room with dozens of people..a few Guards standing around.
**No I do not have crime   Pals** but went on a field Trip for work!

[heavyheart]

In the US, if you lie to federal agents, you can be fined up to $10,000 and/or put in prison for up to 5 years.  Do they have similar laws in Aruba?  Forget about 60 days, this would keep the boys in jail for a few more years.

[momto5]

How many visits have you had to a prision?
Trust me,they Not Monitor Every Word..
It's a Big room with dozens of people..a few Guards standing around.
**No I do not have crime   Pals** but went on a field Trip for work!

Actually, my brother was arrested and put in prison when he was 18. I visited him there on many occasions. Here though it wasnt an open room, atleast not before he was convicted. Before he was convicted we talked to him via phone and a plate glass window. We were told before ever going in that our conversation could be recorded, but at the very least monitored. After his conviction is when it was the open room.
For the record, my brother burglarized some houses in our area when he had run away. We were all questioned about it, and none of us ever lied on his behalf. He had told me what he did, and yes I ratted him out. Does it make me a bad sister? Some might think so, but I was taught never to lie.

[heavyheart]

Do you think that college in Florida withdrew Joran's acceptance? I hope they did.

On what basis would they pull his admittance?  I'm no fan of Joran's but I hope we don't start taking official actions like this based on an assumption.

I wouldn't be surprised if his family pulled it,  as a parent I couldn't imagine sending my kid to the US given the way most people feel.

I would think the univeristy would pull his scholarship due to character concerns.  You don't want your school to be represented by someone that constantly lies to authorities and obstructs justice.

[nisxan]

Well, it's Thursday or as it's known in Aruba, "The best day of the week to arrest people!"

Anyone think we may see some new happenings today?

[mariloo1]

Well, I've finally got to say something...I've been reading for days...last time I got flamed...so I'll try to be more politically correct this time.

The VDS's have both lied, the Kalpoes have lied, Steve Croes lied (what planet is he from?), this Charles Croes fellow is questionable--his story does not jibe with the Twitty's--so someone is lieing (my inference here is CC), my impression is that most of the government representatives, Aruba news folks, and Aruban attorneys are diluting the truth.  The police commissioner is obviously biased.  My point?  All of the above do not treat the truth as if it were a virtue!

My heart goes out to Mr. Holloway, who is obviously not in the "Twitty" loop.

Until everyone starts telling the truth and being sincere in their efforts Natalee will never be found (alive or dead).  If in fact she is alive, by her own actions or the actions of others, she will not or they will not come forward with all of the hipcrosy involved in this case.  If she is dead, God forbid, finding her is severely impaired due to the focus being diverted to the perps.

All I can say is I pray for Natalee.

AMEN!!!!

[sandraK]

In the US, if you lie to federal agents, you can be fined up to $10,000 and/or put in prison for up to 5 years.  Do they have similar laws in Aruba?  Forget about 60 days, this would keep the boys in jail for a few more years.

 I'm with you Heavy Heart
is it true **or romour** that if found Guilty, Joran, being 17 & a minor,
Will be let out of Prision when he turns 21???

[Kelly]

How many visits have you had to a prision?
Trust me,they Not Monitor Every Word..
It's a Big room with dozens of people..a few Guards standing around.
**No I do not have crime   Pals** but went on a field Trip for work!

Ok im not talking about prison, so i guess i should have worded that correctly....again, no need to jump on me.......i forgot that they had in fact been transfered to a jail and not still in the holding cells. so i thought their visits were being held in the interrogation room or somethin like that.......

[heavyheart]

Kelly, It is the same Here in the USA. Even Scott Peterson's Mom can Visit him and he is Convicted  of Murder 1.
They even try to keep the convicts near Home to make visits Easy for Familys.

Yeah that is true , but everything is  MONITORED.................... Huge difference here! HUGE>

I am not against them being able to have vistors by any means..but Noone can agree wit the factt hat the parents can go in there..talk to their son about anything..........and authorites cant hear anythin.......what do you think the parents are tellin him.........Tell the truth and do the right thing? BULL they are givin him advice on how to keep quiet, not panic, and wait it out til monday....and c what happens there...and go from there

If you believe in Democracy and civil rights you have to support these simple human rights.  You might "hope" in this situation they couldn't talk to each other...but, there is a presumption of innocence and with that comes the right to have visitation and legal counsel.

If you had a loved one hauled in for a crime they didn't commit you would want to visit and you would want them to have legal counsel AND honor the rights every person has in this country.

We may not like Joran and think he is guilty.  But, fortunately popularity and perceived guilt do not convict.

I thougth under the Napoleonic code of law, everyone accused of a crime was presumed guilty until proven innocent?  Like in Mexico, except the cops are more expensive and their daddy's friends.

[kuaitzu]

Kelly,
Your right, here in the US they would allow visits, but all visits and communications aside from legal counsel is recorded or monitored in the states. Also the mail coming in and out would be read if it was here. However also here in the states I have heard them say many times they might not have been arrested yet.
You know one thing that crossed my mind last night when they said nothing was being monitored was this. What IF and I know its a big if, they are saying on TV it isnt being monitored in hope that pvds does say something or cross the line, all the while maybe they actually are taping it? You know to make him believe he could say whatever without anyone knowing. Probably wishful thinking, but you never know since they did apparently tap their phones before.

Remember AVS saying that when talking to Joran in prison..if we started to talk about the case..the visit was over..and she was escorted out. Maybe PVDS and Jorans prison conversatioons are being monitored???

[Kelly]

How many visits have you had to a prision?
Trust me,they Not Monitor Every Word..
It's a Big room with dozens of people..a few Guards standing around.
**No I do not have crime   Pals** but went on a field Trip for work!

Actually, my brother was arrested and put in prison when he was 18. I visited him there on many occasions. Here though it wasnt an open room, atleast not before he was convicted. Before he was convicted we talked to him via phone and a plate glass window. We were told before ever going in that our conversation could be recorded, but at the very least monitored. After his conviction is when it was the open room.
For the record, my brother burglarized some houses in our area when he had run away. We were all questioned about it, and none of us ever lied on his behalf. He had told me what he did, and yes I ratted him out. Does it make me a bad sister? Some might think so, but I was taught never to lie.

THANK YOU MOMTO5!  Exactly what i was tryin to get across..normally people who have yet to be convicted are not to get visitors in the big rooms like that..it is more of a confined area..but what do i know.....i was never in jail, and my foster brother was only in there for a short time.

[nancy_drew]

Do you think that college in Florida withdrew Joran's acceptance? I hope they did.

On what basis would they pull his admittance?  I'm no fan of Joran's but I hope we don't start taking official actions like this based on an assumption.

I wouldn't be surprised if his family pulled it,  as a parent I couldn't imagine sending my kid to the US given the way most people feel.

I would think the univeristy would pull his scholarship due to character concerns.  You don't want your school to be represented by someone that constantly lies to authorities and obstructs justice.

Until he's proven guilty I can't imagine them doing anything.  We question his character...but, like Greta says there's always a chance someone else did this.  I don't believe that...but, until he's either convicted or let go...no official judgment should be made by the school.  That's just fair...taking personal feelings out of it.

[friend of monkeys]

Kelly, It is the same Here in the USA. Even Scott Peterson's Mom can Visit him and he is Convicted  of Murder 1.
They even try to keep the convicts near Home to make visits Easy for Familys.

I got the impression also that since pvds was released that the argument they used to not allow visits was no longer gonna fly. Obviously the judge in the case didnt feel there was enough to keep pvds, and therefore Joran being a minor would be allow to visit with his parents. Seemed like what was happening based on what I saw on TV anyway.

Anyone think there might be something between the new judge that was brought in (Why was a new one needed in the first place?) and PVDS?  

Do these guys play golf or hang out at the country club together?  Are they part of the same good ol' boy network?

  everybody knows everybody i think...
or they are " family" //blood or not.

[Mom in Ark]

Do you think that college in Florida withdrew Joran's acceptance? I hope they did.

On what basis would they pull his admittance?  I'm no fan of Joran's but I hope we don't start taking official actions like this based on an assumption.

I wouldn't be surprised if his family pulled it,  as a parent I couldn't imagine sending my kid to the US given the way most people feel.

I would think the univeristy would pull his scholarship due to character concerns.  You don't want your school to be represented by someone that constantly lies to authorities and obstructs justice.

Until he's proven guilty I can't imagine them doing anything.  We question his character...but, like Greta says there's always a chance someone else did this.  I don't believe that...but, until he's either convicted or let go...no official judgment should be made by the school.  That's just fair...taking personal feelings out of it.

Where I work, you can't be fired untill you are convicted.  It would be considered punishment for the innocent.  It would be an open invitation for a lawsuit.

[kljasd89]

If anyone has the time or the means to work that site, I will give you access to the site for development.

http://www.GhostOfNatalee.Com