Lively Case Discussion #658 7/15 - 7/17/2007

[Rob]

I agree, it would keep filling up. At least it could be gridded and searched by a team of divers. The last time there TES gave up, after the neighbors starting throwing items in the water and cables became a problem. I think if TES is going to grid search ten square miles of deep water, they could go back here and look over this shallow water close to the home.

I agree. There are areas that need to be cleared.

If you use Beth's words Spock - the ones where she says Natalee might not be recoverable any longer... then she is prolly not in that dump. She seem to think Natalee is somewhere else where time and ??? have eroded the chances for a recovery...

[Rob]

Has anyone, besides me, ever noticed how convoluted the first 10+ hours are?

He went to school - he didn't go to school. He had scratches and a black eye - he was only sick and sleep in the nurse lounge. He had sex - no he didn't. Headmaster says he is talking about sex - then he's not at school. Picked up near Lorenzo's - caught the school bus there. Paulus puts the kids on bus but can't remember if Joran is on it. He remembers the two other one are, but not Joran.

Deepak didn't go to work - he did go to work.

Satish over sleeps - wakes up at 11am. Missed school altogether.

Paulus no time line at all.

This is where is is all at if you ask me and if anyone could ever get a solid time-line here, it would be all over.

[klaasend]

Found a picture of CR dancing at CnC    

[San]

Has anyone, besides me, ever noticed how convoluted the first 10+ hours are?

He went to school - he didn't go to school. He had scratches and a black eye - he was only sick and sleep in the nurse lounge. He had sex - no he didn't. Headmaster says he is talking about sex - then he's not at school. Picked up near Lorenzo's - caught the school bus there. Paulus puts the kids on bus but can't remember if Joran is on it. He remembers the two other one are, but not Joran.

Deepak didn't go to work - he did go to work.

Satish over sleeps - wakes up at 11am. Missed school altogether.

Paulus no time line at all.

This is where is is all at if you ask me and if anyone could ever get a solid time-line here, it would be all over.

Joran didn't go to school - he did go to school.

Bottom line is none of them went to school or work.  Paulus had Joran tagging along with him all day because he knew Joran couldn't be trusted and Deepak was home stopping Satish from having a nervous breakdown.

[San]

Found a picture of CR dancing at CnC    

   

[BTgirl]

O/T

I'm watching the local news, and they said there was breaking news in the Teresa Parker case. Apparently the other police officer who was originally arrested (not her husband) has been rearrested. He was in Mobile, Ala., and is being extradicted back to Georgia. The charges were something along the lines of intering with evidence and internet invasion of privacy.

[Rob]

Has anyone, besides me, ever noticed how convoluted the first 10+ hours are?

He went to school - he didn't go to school. He had scratches and a black eye - he was only sick and sleep in the nurse lounge. He had sex - no he didn't. Headmaster says he is talking about sex - then he's not at school. Picked up near Lorenzo's - caught the school bus there. Paulus puts the kids on bus but can't remember if Joran is on it. He remembers the two other one are, but not Joran.

Deepak didn't go to work - he did go to work.

Satish over sleeps - wakes up at 11am. Missed school altogether.

Paulus no time line at all.

This is where is is all at if you ask me and if anyone could ever get a solid time-line here, it would be all over.

Joran didn't go to school - he did go to school.

Bottom line is none of them went to school or work.  Paulus had Joran tagging along with him all day because he knew Joran couldn't be trusted and Deepak was home stopping Satish from having a nervous breakdown.

Where is Angela Reppas statement? I know she made one.. do we have it?
I bet there is a ton about Deepak in there.

[Rob]

The First 10 hours looks like a job for the FREEBIRDS!  HINT HINT!!

[San]

Has anyone, besides me, ever noticed how convoluted the first 10+ hours are?

He went to school - he didn't go to school. He had scratches and a black eye - he was only sick and sleep in the nurse lounge. He had sex - no he didn't. Headmaster says he is talking about sex - then he's not at school. Picked up near Lorenzo's - caught the school bus there. Paulus puts the kids on bus but can't remember if Joran is on it. He remembers the two other one are, but not Joran.

Deepak didn't go to work - he did go to work.

Satish over sleeps - wakes up at 11am. Missed school altogether.

Paulus no time line at all.

This is where is is all at if you ask me and if anyone could ever get a solid time-line here, it would be all over.

Joran didn't go to school - he did go to school.

Bottom line is none of them went to school or work.  Paulus had Joran tagging along with him all day because he knew Joran couldn't be trusted and Deepak was home stopping Satish from having a nervous breakdown.

Where is Angela Reppas statement? I know she made one.. do we have it?
I bet there is a ton about Deepak in there.

I looked in the important case document section and I don't see one.

I can see the questions they asked Angela.

ALE - Did Deepak come to work the day of May 30th.

Angela - Yes he did and I was with him working.

ALE - Was he on time.

Angela - Deepak is always on time he is my best worker.

ALE - Did he look tired.

Angela - No he was his chipper self.

ALE - Did Satish call him 50 times on the work phone.

Angela - We are not allowed to accept personal calls while at work but I did see Satish's number pop up on the caller ID about 50 times.

ALE - Do big people lie.

Angela - You have to ask Nadira.

[Spock]

Has anyone, besides me, ever noticed how convoluted the first 10+ hours are?

He went to school - he didn't go to school. He had scratches and a black eye - he was only sick and sleep in the nurse lounge. He had sex - no he didn't. Headmaster says he is talking about sex - then he's not at school. Picked up near Lorenzo's - caught the school bus there. Paulus puts the kids on bus but can't remember if Joran is on it. He remembers the two other one are, but not Joran. Deepak didn't go to work - he did go to work. Satish over sleeps - wakes up at 11am. Missed school altogether.
Paulus no time line at all.

This is where is is all at if you ask me and if anyone could ever get a solid time-line here, it would be all over.

I agree, we really have no timeline for anyone in the first day or so. We have is J2K leaving C&C at about 1 am, Joran arriving at school somehow at about 7:30 am, Satish missing school, and Deepak starting work at 3 pm. Then, we have the Raquet club story, the casino tour, and the 3 am BT visit. Couple that, with half the statements are missing or incomplete and the timeline is a bust.

[JuJu]

THANKS TO ALL!

[klaasend]

Speaking of Natalee's Freebirds - here is their latest:

RICK SMID- ARUBA’S DIRTIEST JUDGE

Many of the judicial rulings by the Dutch judges in the Natalee Holloway case have been highly questionable, some so openly biased in favor of the Van der Sloot family they smack of corruption. For instance, when a search warrant was being executed on the Van Der Sloot home on June 15, 2005 investigators were surprised to find Curacao Judge Bob Wit open the door and inform them their search would not include the main Van Der Sloot residence or the surrounding property.

Eight days later when Joran’s father Paulus Van Der Sloot was arrested for "reasonable suspicion" in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway Judge Bob Wit intervened again, disallowing a search of the Van Der Sloot home. Ironically, no such limitations were ever placed on the search of the homes of two black security guards who were arrested on June 5, 2005. In fact, Aruban police ransacked their homes and perp walked them in front of the media, only later having to release them because there was no evidence that, unlike Joran Van Der Sloot and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, they had ever been in contact with Natalee Holloway.

Since when do suspects in a murder investigation get a free pass from having their house searched? Prior to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway it is well known that Paulus Van Der Sloot had been a Dutch judge in training. Did his connections to the judiciary in Aruba and nearby Curacao have any influence on these rulings by Judge Bob Wit?

Judge Bob Wit's early decisions in the Natalee Holloway case would start a chain reaction of pro-Dutch, anti-victim rulings that would eventually free the Van Der Sloots from facing criminal charges.

JUDGE RICK SMID, ARUBA’S DIRTIEST JUDGE, IGNORES INCRIMINATING EVIDENCE AGAINST THE MAIN SUSPECTS


“Aruba’s Dirtiest Judge” honor, however, goes to Dutch Judge Rick Smid for his extremely questionable rulings in the Natalee Holloway case. This one judge has caused as much damage to the Holloway case being solved as is humanly possible. IT WAS RICK SMID WHO SET THE STAGE FOR JORAN VAN DER SLOOT TO FLEE THE ISLAND OF ARUBA.

Police statements from Joran and the Kalpoe brothers—the last people to be seen with Natalee Holloway-- have revealed many disparities in their accounts of what happened that night she disappeared. In a secretly recorded conversation in a police van on June 25, 2005 the three suspects engaged in heated arguments about who was responsible for Nataleee’s demise, implicating not only each other but Joran’s father Paulus.

It is clear from these tapes and other statements the suspects gave to police, that the three suspects had detailed and intimate knowledge that something bad had happened to Miss Holloway. Joran even described the victim’s undergarments in great detail. Judge Rick Smid chose to completely ignore the fact that the main suspects were telling different accounts of what happened to Natalee that night. Why did judge Smid ignore such glaring and obvious contradictions in the stories of the three suspects? Even the simplest of minds would know that some of the parties were telling lies, indicating a clear measure of guilt.

JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR DIARIO ARUBA
Monday, November 21, 2005


No one has accused them of murder, but they themselves admitted to police during interrogations that something bad happened to Natalee while she was with them, without specifying what ‘something bad’ was! That they admitted to committing sexual abuse against her.

It is not extensive that the judge who presided over the case and decided that some things were inadmissible. He could be the best judge in the world, but in this case, he made light of and greatly neglected to pay attention to the three suspects’ admissions, since he didn’t even interrogate them about what was left hanging in the air, such as the declaration of Joran at the beach that he believes that Deepak raped and killed Natalee! How did this matter end there? How were the other accusations and counter-accusations among the three suspects not evaluated for their just content?

RICK SMID SHIELDS THE SUSPECTS FROM FURTHER TESTIMONY AND ALLOWS THE MAIN SUSPECT TO FLEE THE ISLAND

Judge Rick Smid was very aware of the discrepancies and inconsistencies in Joran Van der Sloot’s and the Kalpoe’s stories when he made several of his rulings in the case. Judge Smid was also aware Joran had lied about dropping off Natalee Holloway off at the Holiday Inn and had told four differing and contradictory stories as to how he got home that night. The Kalpoe brothers to this day disagree with Joran Van der Sloot on how he got home early that morning.

In an Aruban court on August 30, 2005 Judge Rick Smid ruled there was enough evidence that Joran Van Der Sloot should be held in police custody another 30 days. Then Judge Smid does something very unusual. He returns to his office in Curacao and faxes in a reversal of his ruling only hours later. Citing an obscure Dutch case dubbed the “Ponson Rule”, Judge Smid ruled that Joran’s schoolwork was more important than the case of a missing, and most likely, murdered, tourist. It should be noted the Ponson Rule was originally instituted for a baseball player who was involved in a case nowhere near as serious as murder.

As a direct result of Judge Rick Smid's ruling, Joran Van Der Sloot (to this day the main suspect in Natalee Holloway’s disappearance) was released from police custody on September 3, 2005 and immediately fled the island of Aruba to the safety of Holland three days later.

Less than two weeks later three Dutch Superior Court judges in Curacao delivered their final coup de grace. On September 14, 2005, in a ruling by three Dutch judges from Curacao, Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoes brothers were all released unconditionally. This order prevented law enforcement from taking any further testimony from the three suspects in the Natalee Holloway case - despite the fact their accounts of what happened the night Natalee Holloway disappeared in their company are drastically different. Why would these three judges release the three main suspects from giving further testimony when those same judges knew full well the suspects lied to police, with conflicting stories from one suspect to the next?

Rogue Judge Rick Smid's rulings would be a devastating blow to the Natalee Holloway case. When Aruba spokesperson Steve Cohen promised the American public the three suspects would be brought back in for questioning in December 2005, it was revealed they would never have to testify again. All of this as a result of Judge Rick Smid's abuse of his position on the bench.

ASSOCIATED PRESS
September 1, 2005


The judge in the case issued two rulings: In the first, he agreed with prosecutors' request to extend the period of van der Sloot's pretrial detention by 30 more days.

But later Thursday, the judge issued another ruling that sided with the defense — an order to immediately suspend the execution of his earlier pretrial detention order.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9163292/

BETH TWITTY ON NANCY GRACE
September 13, 2005

GRACE: What was the grounds? Why did they release them?

TWITTY: You know, Nancy, there was absolutely no -- no grounds for them to be released. And I spoke with the Dutch interrogators. And even as of September the 1st, things were really progressing well, and Joran and Deepak and Satish, they had -- these young men had divided, and they were not denying a crime anymore. They were merely implicating each other. And the list of inconsistencies was presented before Judge Smit. The reasonable doubt was there. I don`t have any idea why he fled the island and then faxed a reversal decision. It just is incredible.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0509/13/ng.01.html


JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR DIARIO ARUBA
Monday, October 1, 2005

Did the judge who came from Curacao probably plan take the decisions he took, spoiled the case? With all due respect for the position you have taken, have you seen what happened?

The case was resolved in phases the same judge planned: first release Paul v.d. Sloot , then he came back to release the Kalpoe brothers and the third phase he executed now when came to set Joran free because Joran expressed his wish to continue his studies.

I have similarly not made any accusations of any sort against the Kalpoe brothers; what I have repeated is what can be found in the Polis reports where they started pointing the fingers one against the other! It is in these three phases here that Americans see the corruption of our justice system.


THE DUTCH JUDGES ARE PART OF THE ARUBA "GOOD OLE BOY" NETWORK THAT PROTECTS THEIR OWN

The Aruban government and law enforcement are riddled with good ole boy friendships that usurp their ability to exact justice when one of their own is involved in a crime. It has been rumored that Judge Rick Smid was a close personal friend of Paulus Van Der Sloot and had stayed in his residence on occasion during his visits to Aruba. Judging by his rulings, this would seem to be the case.

Jossy Mansur points out that the Dutch judges were in collusion all along in an editorial that ran in his newspaper, El Diario Aruba. Given such a biased series of rulings in the Natalee Holloway case it is hard not to believe these judges all worked in unison to deny justice to the American victim in favor of saving their fellow Dutch nationalists' from facing their crimes in a court of law.

To this day Joran Van Der Sloot is considered the main suspect in the Natalee Holloway case, and his father Paulus was recently denied compensation when it was revealed through a wiretapped conversation he had met Natalee Holloway the same day she disappeared – not once, but twice. It is well known that Paulus Van Der Sloot is suspected of covering up his son's criminal acts against Natalee Holloway and some believe he had direct involvement in her demise. His lies in police statements concerning his whereabouts the night Holloway disappeared, in addition to stating he had never met Holloway, exposed in court, serve to reinforce such suspicions.

But yet the Dutch have chosen to do nothing in the case even though it is well proven all of the suspects lied as both witnesses and suspects, and thanks to the Dutch judges' orders they will not have to face questioning again.

EDITOR JOSSY MANSUR OF DIARIO NEWSPAPER ON NANCY GRACE
October 4, 2005

GRACE: … Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html

RICK SMID'S HISTORY OF LENIENCE ON CRIMINALS RAISES QUESTIONS OF HIS INTEGRITY AND ABILITY TO SERVE AS A JUDGE. IF RICK SMID WILL DO THIS FOR NON-DUTCH CRIMINALS, IMAGINE WHAT HE WILL DO FOR HIS DUTCH FRIENDS AND CO-WORKERS


Rick Smid refuses to have human traffickers and drug dealers arrested:

PHILIPSBURG - Two men considered to be the local organisers of what the Prosecutor’s Office believes to be a Chinese-led human smuggling operation are facing six- and eight-year prison sentences. They were also accused Thursday of involvement in the drug trade, mainly cocaine.

The Prosecutor further requested the immediate arrest of both suspects, who had been released from pre-trial detention in April, but this was turned down by Judge Rick Smid.
http://news.caribseek.com/Sint_Maarten/The_Daily_Herald/article_50851.shtml
Posted: Jun 15, 2007 20:05 UTC

Rick Smid gives human trafficker 38 days in jail:

PHILIPSBURG--While investigations are ongoing into the alleged involvement of a police commissioner in human trafficking, a 28-year-old man was found guilty by the Court of First Instance on Wednesday of having tried to bribe Chief Immigration Officer Ademar Doran.

Judge Rick Smid sentenced Stephen Bruney to 180 days, 142 of which to be suspended, with three years’ probation and 200 hours of community service.
http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/k024/bribe024.html

IN COWARDLY FASHION, SMID RELEASES THE SUSPECTS UNDER THE MEDIA BLUR OF HURRICANE KATRINA

Had Hurricane Katrina not taken the spotlight off of Aruba, Judge Smid may have reconsidered his ruling. Instead it seems he found the catastrophe the perfect time to make such a bold and suspicious judgment. While American eyes were turned to the Gulf Coast of the U.S., Rick Smid took full advantage to free Joran van der Sloot and allow this suspect’s flight to Holland.

Smid takes advantage of a catastrophe to deal his own damage:

NANCY GRACE
September 13, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S MOTHER: Well, you know, Nancy, I was thinking, I knew there was corruption and cover-up involved. But I certainly didn`t know they were cowards either, and to hide beneath the cloak of Hurricane Katrina is just reprehensible. And you know, I think -- I think of the Dutch government, and I want to keep the focus on this political party in place, NEP (ph). I think of this judge, Rick Smit. And I can`t imagine putting the suspects` rights or the suspects, you know, before the victim of Natalee, and that why should he choose to be concerned about Joran attending university in The Hague? It just is unbelievable.

GRACE: What was the grounds? Why did they release them?

TWITTY: You know, Nancy, there was absolutely no -- no grounds for them to be released. And I spoke with the Dutch interrogators. And even as of September the 1st, things were really progressing well, and Joran and Deepak and Satish, they had -- these young men had divided, and they were not denying a crime anymore. They were merely implicating each other. And the list of inconsistencies was presented before Judge Smit. The reasonable doubt was there. I don`t have any idea why he fled the island and then faxed a reversal decision. It just is incredible.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0509/13/ng.01.html

QUESTIONS ABOUT RICK SMID AND HIS FELLOW JUDGE BOB WIT:


*Why would a judge block the search of the home belonging to a suspect in a murder investigation? Was this because Paulus Van Der Sloot was a Dutch judge in training? If not, why were the two black security guards not given the same consideration days earlier when their homes were ransacked by investigators and police?

*Why would Judge Rick Smid rule a suspect be held in custody for another 30 days and reverse his own ruling within hours after he had fled the island of Aruba to his office in Curacao? Was he afraid he might have to explain his ruling to the media while he was still on the island of Aruba? What was Judge Smid afraid of? Why the deception?

*Why did Judge Rick Smid overlook incriminating testimony by a suspect and release him by citing his “schoolwork” as being the more important factor in the case? Since when does a suspect’s "schoolwork" take precedence over finding justice for a murdered tourist? Is it because Joran Van der Sloot is Dutch and Natalee Holloway is merely a missing victim?

*What kind of judge can look at basic, rudimentary statements with conflicting testimonies from three suspects and release them from further questioning by the authorities?

*Why have all these Dutch judges made such favorable rulings in favor of Joran Van Der Sloot, shielding him from further legal action when, in fact, he is the main suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway? Joran Van Der Sloot, who has been diagnosed by both Dutch and U.S. investigators as a "pathological liar", remains free today as a result of such obviously biased rulings.

*What kind of judicial system places favoritism over justice through the use of ambiguous rulings in favor of suspected criminals? The judges from Curacao, including Rick Smid, have given the Dutch judicial system a black eye worldwide.

"And he (Paulus Van der Sloot) was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work."

Jossy Mansur


Natalee and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!

Natalee's Freebirds
 
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

[klaasend]

O/T

I'm watching the local news, and they said there was breaking news in the Teresa Parker case. Apparently the other police officer who was originally arrested (not her husband) has been rearrested. He was in Mobile, Ala., and is being extradicted back to Georgia. The charges were something along the lines of intering with evidence and internet invasion of privacy.

Thanks, I'll keep my eye out for updates.

[Tiger]

Well Smid should on the list of as*bites.So many of these,so little time.Koen and Sander flee again.Hmmm Futbol is a contact sport sander,be careful.We want to see play in jail.Throwing items in an area to be searched,how nice.Who are the neighbors,other pimps and drug dealers?

[wreck]

Has anyone, besides me, ever noticed how convoluted the first 10+ hours are?

He went to school - he didn't go to school. He had scratches and a black eye - he was only sick and sleep in the nurse lounge. He had sex - no he didn't. Headmaster says he is talking about sex - then he's not at school. Picked up near Lorenzo's - caught the school bus there. Paulus puts the kids on bus but can't remember if Joran is on it. He remembers the two other one are, but not Joran.

Deepak didn't go to work - he did go to work.

Satish over sleeps - wakes up at 11am. Missed school altogether.

Paulus no time line at all.

This is where is is all at if you ask me and if anyone could ever get a solid time-line here, it would be all over.

The lack of "clarity" on these issues IS the evidence!!!

[MuffyBee]

Hello Monkeys

Klaas-please check your email.  I hope I sent message to correct address.  It's important.  Thanks

[MuffyBee]

Has anyone, besides me, ever noticed how convoluted the first 10+ hours are?

He went to school - he didn't go to school. He had scratches and a black eye - he was only sick and sleep in the nurse lounge. He had sex - no he didn't. Headmaster says he is talking about sex - then he's not at school. Picked up near Lorenzo's - caught the school bus there. Paulus puts the kids on bus but can't remember if Joran is on it. He remembers the two other one are, but not Joran.

Deepak didn't go to work - he did go to work.

Satish over sleeps - wakes up at 11am. Missed school altogether.

Paulus no time line at all.

This is where is is all at if you ask me and if anyone could ever get a solid time-line here, it would be all over.

The lack of "clarity" on these issues IS the evidence!!!

It's clear as mud!

[igsigs]

Monday Timeline    A Mess

I started one, got all the info together...but in the end it was difficult to put together anything coherent. What is needed is a Guido PV, a Koen PV and a more in-depth PV by Paulus.

Joran's 6/14 PV gives his monday story, a story given a major overhaul in the book. Many questions/issues remain.

- school/no school , bus/no bus/bus at drive-in

- Paulus' multiple bank visits / witness deceased(?)

- Schoolteacher PV not helpful > moving cabinets/sleeping?

- Multiple versions of when Paulus got home, and who was home at the time.

- Freddy (and other family members - IMO) say afternoon visit from Joran. No Freddy on monday, at all, per Joran.

- Raquet Club visit now down to 15-20 minutes per book. This leaves a few hours unaccounted for.

- Deepak claims a 6pm call to Joran where he is told that Joran is gambling with Guido. Deepak says this exact time in multiple PVs. Joran never mentions this call and does not introduce Guido into any version until hours later.

- Paulus denies seeing Joran after RQ dropoff/ then says he returned at 8pm to drop off *bag*, meets Joran as he is walking.

- Paulus gives different versions of the wheres/whens of his contacts with Val and Sebastian.

- Joran and Guido going to the VDS house to get money. Joran does not add this part to his story until book.

- Many different casino stories. All boring as heck.    Time gaps everywhere (Andre PV has good info).

[Rob]

Thank You Igsigs    

[Rob]

There has to be a REAL phone log. Does anyone have anything even close to what the KLPD might have?

This lil diddy could be the key.