Lively Case Discussion #659 7/17 - 7/19/2007

[mrs. red]

Klaas.. will do.. I have to run out in a second but I will make sure he gets it..

bye monkeys...

keep the faith!

[Lala'sMom]

well as usual, I cleared the board.  see ya!

No you didn't.  I was off trying to compose a post without spelling errors.  

[Lala'sMom]

I wonder why someone would take the story of the 5th suspect as being the one that had dinner with Natalee?  What happened that could have been construed as that scenario?  Maybe she and her friends were sitting there eating and this guy came up or as some have said maybe it was another girl.  I have always wanted clarification on that.

[San]

I wonder why someone would take the story of the 5th suspect as being the one that had dinner with Natalee?  What happened that could have been construed as that scenario?  Maybe she and her friends were sitting there eating and this guy came up or as some have said maybe it was another girl.  I have always wanted clarification on that.

Maybe they meant the old guy sitting next to her at the casino (Paulus) and was hitting on her.  Maybe they are trying to tell us in so many ways it was Paulus the perve.

[Lala'sMom]

I wonder why someone would take the story of the 5th suspect as being the one that had dinner with Natalee?  What happened that could have been construed as that scenario?  Maybe she and her friends were sitting there eating and this guy came up or as some have said maybe it was another girl.  I have always wanted clarification on that.

Maybe they meant the old guy sitting next to her at the casino (Paulus) and was hitting on her.  Maybe they are trying to tell us in so many ways it was Paulus the perve.

Hadn't thought of that. See this is why we need to keep talking and disagreeing.  It causes us all to rethink and refocus. Is that a word? "refocus".  I just hate it when I have to write myself in the book.

[bleachedblack]

I wonder why someone would take the story of the 5th suspect as being the one that had dinner with Natalee?  What happened that could have been construed as that scenario?  Maybe she and her friends were sitting there eating and this guy came up or as some have said maybe it was another girl.  I have always wanted clarification on that.

Maybe she and friends finished dinner at the HI and she was then approached by the guy who she spent 30 min talking with that we have heard about? This might have been perceived as having had dinner with by someone who witnessed part of this interaction?

[San]

I wonder why someone would take the story of the 5th suspect as being the one that had dinner with Natalee?  What happened that could have been construed as that scenario?  Maybe she and her friends were sitting there eating and this guy came up or as some have said maybe it was another girl.  I have always wanted clarification on that.

Maybe they meant the old guy sitting next to her at the casino (Paulus) and was hitting on her.  Maybe they are trying to tell us in so many ways it was Paulus the perve.

Hadn't thought of that. See this is why we need to keep talking and disagreeing.  It causes us all to rethink and refocus. Is that a word? "refocus".  I just hate it when I have to write myself in the book.

Also wanted to add that earlier in the week might have been earlier in the day.

[Buckeye]

I wonder why someone would take the story of the 5th suspect as being the one that had dinner with Natalee?  What happened that could have been construed as that scenario?  Maybe she and her friends were sitting there eating and this guy came up or as some have said maybe it was another girl.  I have always wanted clarification on that.

Maybe she and friends finished dinner at the HI and she was then approached by the guy who she spent 30 min talking with that we have heard about? This might have been perceived as having had dinner with by someone who witnessed part of this interaction?

Maybe it was Max Arends (is he Dilma's son?) and he said he was at Lorenzo's.  They say he was questioned first.  Jaime C. is questioned about Max Arends.  Haven't seen anything from the Joran book about Lorenzo or Max....makes me suspicious   .

[Lala'sMom]

I wonder why someone would take the story of the 5th suspect as being the one that had dinner with Natalee?  What happened that could have been construed as that scenario?  Maybe she and her friends were sitting there eating and this guy came up or as some have said maybe it was another girl.  I have always wanted clarification on that.

Maybe she and friends finished dinner at the HI and she was then approached by the guy who she spent 30 min talking with that we have heard about? This might have been perceived as having had dinner with by someone who witnessed part of this interaction?

Maybe it was Max Arends (is he Dilma's son?) and he said he was at Lorenzo's.  They say he was questioned first.  Jaime C. is questioned about Max Arends.  Haven't seen anything from the Joran book about Lorenzo or Max....makes me suspicious   .

Yes, it does make one suspicious.  Those of you that dance with me will know that Simian made reference to this:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared shitless in a cell.

Maybe Lorenzo is the one person that Joran fears in some way.  You know, when you are running drugs for powerful people and laundering their money in the local casinos, things can get dicey when the entire operation is about to be exposed.  I am sure you get my drift here. JMO.

[Anna]

No, Selena is not Tylergal but a wonderful researcher and poster in her own right.  She is the one who first made the connection of Michael Poser and Murder Mansion and all that AFAIK.

She posted at RWV and I have tried to find her since she left.  I still miss her and also miss Tylergal very much.    But I understand and don't blame either one of them as I feel the same way at times myself.  There were a couple of other exceptional posters there, Professor and ProudRedNeck and we did all night sessions in the beginning, prowling through chat rooms and looking everywhere and at anything we could find.  

LALA's, I have to disagree.  I don't think dissenting views are welcome at all and so I will stay out of the Lorenzo discussion.

*******, you asked me twice what I thought about the racejunkies?Lorenzo then when I answer, apparently wrong answer and you accuse of wanting to fight all the time about Lorenzo.

All I want is proof, something, anything concrete other than rumors.
The disinformation started immediately to some extent even among the first posters and Arubans.  Remember the Deepak letter was dated very early in June and posted.

Rudy Croes gave a speech of some kind about it being disloyal to Aruba to discuss.  I think that may have quelled some of the posting.

Remember lots of the people in Aruba are there only on work permits which Croes controls.

I think they would say whatever he told them to say.

JM unwelcome opinion.

[Lala'sMom]

This poster recognized right off the bat that things were not right...

Whitney
Monkey Junkey


Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: California
   
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:26 am    Post subject:    Reply with quote
Here's something that borders fact-minus-one...

The local posters are conspicuously absent for the last 24 hours...even approaching 30...NO?

[msmarple]

I among many don't believe that Natalee had lunch or dinner with any Aruba local. So there.

* * *
O/T -

Are any of you Alabama folks reading about a town called Lipscomb? I’ve seen several blips … this is one of those stories that shouldn’t be funny, but it is.

Here is a roundup (various sources) --

The mayor recently was found to be driving a car that had been stolen from somewhere in Virginia, abandoned in/near Lipscomb, impounded, and then … poof! – gone again, until it was connected to the mayor. He may be facing a Grand Theft Auto charge, or whatever charge applies to stealing a car from the impound lot.

Then it was revealed that the mayor had been convicted of felony burglary in Birmingham in 1994, and theoretically is not eligible to hold public office. He apparently is not going to resign as mayor unless or until somebody makes him.

Then mayor’s name is … Simon Speights. Or, Simon Speight (at the time of the burgulary). Or maybe Samon Speights (per the phone book).

But, wait, there’s more!  A Lipscomb Council member was also the police commissioner. He resigned as commissioner after being charged with four felonies in three days – stalking, impersonating a police officer, and bribery and extortion. Apparently he is still serving on the Council.  

AND MORE! Another Council member - who also is chief of the volunteer fire department - was charged with impersonating a police officer. AND, while he was out on bail, he was arrested (by Mountain Brook police) on a domestic violence charge involving his almost ex-wife.

“Sheriff's spokesman Sgt. Randy Christian said his department determined some Lipscomb police and other public officials had been terrorizing the community at large.”

In a gesture of appeasement, the Police Dept. held a free car wash at City Hall for residents. (Evidently water shortage is not one of the area’s complaints?)

How many Council members can there be in Lipscomb?

[Lala'sMom]

Anna
I understand you think Lorenzo isn't involved at all and may constitute a red herring in all this.  I truly respect your opinion.  I have no problem with it at all.  I have long had dissenting opinions on things that I too, would not mention in order to avoid conflict.   Do I have this correct that you continue to believe that Lorenzo is not a key player here?  Please, know that I am not trying to cause a ruckus...I just want to be clear on what you think.  You are most assuredly one of the more intelligent posters we have, especially when it comes to level-headed thinking and fact finding.  BTW I am just talking to Anna right now, so please, everyone bear with me.  I don't have an email addy or I would do this in private. Sorry.

[2NJSons_Mom]

No one is in my book... at this moment. LOL  I am not arguing the leg scenario again.  I know how many legs are there.   I need to leave  it at that because I am sure there is someone who will come along later and find an additional leg there also.  It's just like those pics of the plastic bag...I have trouble with them so I consider us all still friends even when there is disagreement.  Actually, I like it when someone else states otherwise.  It causes me to re-examine my own interpretations and thoughts. That is how I have finally concluded that Lorenzo is the 5th suspect...well...maybe...I think...I could be wrong...if not him, then who....see you guys have me all mixed up now.    

Lala's,

I've been checking out Lorenzo info this AM.  Your conclusion about the 5th was mentioned on the FP...only thing is that he was deemed a witness, not suspect.  Here's the link to that FP post....I was in comments when I saved it, so scroll up to the top to read....also notice americaninaruba was the source.

http://tinyurl.com/34y558

I posted the info on Lorenzo that was being discussed late last night.  The posters were referring to Lorenzo as being brought in BEFORE Steve Croes.  They also referred to him as a WITNESS at the time.  I asked what was he a witness to or for?  Thus this reference by Simian...the talk and rumors were continuing until finally Siman tried to clear up the 5th suspect and this is what he said:

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:03 am
1. No body; no crime.
2. A grown woman gone missing.
3. Één getuige is géén getuige. (One witness is no witness).
4. No suspect is allowed to testify against himself.
5. A confession will be thrown out of court if there is no evidence.


 You are correct master porcelain bowl cleaner!  Lorenzo surfaced as being questioned on the 16 and 17 of June.  After that the massive effort to confuse and hide things began in full.  Shango never mentions Lorenzo.  It is another poster that does that.  Since my Shango is incomplete, I am not sure if there was a reply to that post by Shango for certain. Maybe our  more intelligent posters will be able to help me on this. I am limited in my Shango knowledge even after all this time.

Lala's, just seeing this as I had to be away for a bit.  I'm not sure I can help with the Shango posts, and also did miss several pages last night, and will go back to read.  

I found 2 posts in the archive and quoted them a page or so ago...one was 'americaninaruba' & the other 'NativeLingo'.  On 6/17/05, AM & PM respectively, both said that they knew or heard of Lorenzo being involved from the beginning....this lead me to revisit the posts mentioning him and the FP comments from that date.  Now, maybe I'll go back further...to see if there's anything from locals in those FP comment sections.

[Lala'sMom]

I among many don't believe that Natalee had lunch or dinner with any Aruba local. So there.

* * *
O/T -

Are any of you Alabama folks reading about a town called Lipscomb? I’ve seen several blips … this is one of those stories that shouldn’t be funny, but it is.

Here is a roundup (various sources) --

The mayor recently was found to be driving a car that had been stolen from somewhere in Virginia, abandoned in/near Lipscomb, impounded, and then … poof! – gone again, until it was connected to the mayor. He may be facing a Grand Theft Auto charge, or whatever charge applies to stealing a car from the impound lot.

Then it was revealed that the mayor had been convicted of felony burglary in Birmingham in 1994, and theoretically is not eligible to hold public office. He apparently is not going to resign as mayor unless or until somebody makes him.

Then mayor’s name is … Simon Speights. Or, Simon Speight (at the time of the burgulary). Or maybe Samon Speights (per the phone book).

But, wait, there’s more!  A Lipscomb Council member was also the police commissioner. He resigned as commissioner after being charged with four felonies in three days – stalking, impersonating a police officer, and bribery and extortion. Apparently he is still serving on the Council.  

AND MORE! Another Council member - who also is chief of the volunteer fire department - was charged with impersonating a police officer. AND, while he was out on bail, he was arrested (by Mountain Brook police) on a domestic violence charge involving his almost ex-wife.

“Sheriff's spokesman Sgt. Randy Christian said his department determined some Lipscomb police and other public officials had been terrorizing the community at large.”

In a gesture of appeasement, the Police Dept. held a free car wash at City Hall for residents. (Evidently water shortage is not one of the area’s complaints?)

How many Council members can there be in Lipscomb?

Yes, that is an interesting story.  The corruption is deep there and not just in that little town. I think they are going to need a new government soon.  

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks 2NJ. I have a terrible time pulling up the FP stuff for reference.  That is why I am looking at the archives.  If you would be so kind, I would appreciate it if you would let me know what you find.  

Believe it or not, I too would like to put Lorenzo to rest too. He just won't go away...he's like a bad dream or maybe heartburn.  

[Anna]

LESLIE,

I remember those photos and may still have them.  You sent them to me long ago by email and we discussed.  With the new photos of LVR from his arrest, I seem to recall one of them at the BD party does bear a resemblance.

But I am going to try to stay out of the Lorenzo discussion.

I think he could be connected in a very peripheral manner such as suspected of supplying drugs.  All I want is some kind of proof of any connection.  I don't think the early Arubans posting had very good information and just repeated the local gossip.  That does not make it true or a fact.  I have never been able in all this time to make a connection that is reliable.  Jossy says there is not one and we take his word when it fits our preconceived ideas and ignore it when it doesn't.  But I will readily concede that Jossy can't know every detail about this investigation and I use that word loosely.  It is a cover up being billed as an investigation.  IMHO.

----------
LaLas's posted something earlier that was interesting. Deepak could have put something in Natalee's drink without Joran knowing it?   Or even with Joran knowing it.Would that explain why Deepak was the one sent back in to escort Natalee out by the arm as one witness has apparently claimed?  I have always thought that might be the Kalpoe connection and what they did that binds them to Joran and silences them.  If they, either one, administered the lethal drug, they are culpable for that.

Is that the "shit" they would see if the remains were recovered?

Yet another thing to think about as a possibility.  That would explain why the Kalpoes don't rat out Joran.  They are the ones known to have purchased GHB or Ecstasy and not Joran.  Maybe there is a witness or someone who actually sold it to them and not to Joran.

Too many theories, too little time.
.

[Leslie]

Too many theories, too many lies

[wreck]

Anna
I understand you think Lorenzo isn't involved at all and may constitute a red herring in all this.  I truly respect your opinion.  I have no problem with it at all.  I have long had dissenting opinions on things that I too, would not mention in order to avoid conflict.   Do I have this correct that you continue to believe that Lorenzo is not a key player here?  Please, know that I am not trying to cause a ruckus...I just want to be clear on what you think.  You are most assuredly one of the more intelligent posters we have, especially when it comes to level-headed thinking and fact finding.  BTW I am just talking to Anna right now, so please, everyone bear with me.  I don't have an email addy or I would do this in private. Sorry.

Anna,
Personally, I think your posts are overwhelmingly spot-on  most of the time. Just because people don't agree 100% -- doesn't mean dissenting views are not welcome. Respectfully, I think you misinterpret "disagreement" with "disrespect".  I honestly see very little "bashing" of other posters here (at least on purpose). We all have different personalities here -- some are just a little more "aggressive" in stating opinions.
I certainly hope you don't feel respected -- because I KNOW we all do!!    
PS -- I hope you read this too, Tylergal (if that is why you have stopped posting)

[wreck]

I wrote:

I certainly hope you don't feel respected -- because I KNOW we all do!!

That didn't come out right!!
I meant to say: I certainly hope you don't feel DISRESPECTED -- because we all DO respect you immensely!