CHARLES CROES - How did he get involved?

[klaasend]

Please post Charles Croes information here

[Observer]

FAST PHONE SERVICES- RENT YOUR PHONE
Business address SHIRIBANA 3-I, PARADERA
Legal form SOLE OWNERSHIP
Name of the company FAST PHONE SERVICES- RENT YOUR PHONE
Date of commencement 16 DECEMBER 2003
OWNERS/PARTNERS
CROES, CHARLES AUGUST;
Residing in SHIRIBANA 3-I, PARADERA, ARUBA
Born in U.S.A., NEW YORK on 15 SEPTEMBER 1945
Nationality AMERICAN
Position OWNER
Effective 16 DECEMBER 2003
Authority FULL
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
HET VERHUREN VAN MOBIELE TELEFOONTOESTELLEN.

[MumInOhio]

From the Natalee Discussion Thread...


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3437.240


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #771
« Reply #248 on: Today at 08:43:01 AM » Quote 

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Found this on Paul Lilly, Eric Williams and Charles Croes...

Also found other posts that state it was Williams that contacted Paul Lilly at 5.30PM. So it appears Curacao notified Williams who in turn contacted Paul Lilly. It also appears that Charles Croes major friend is/was Eric Williams! Well unless you would rather believe Julia Renfro...

Quote from: Anna on January 30, 2008, 12:48:30 AM

Julia Renfro/Glenda

Scrux

<snipped>

02-15-2006
(responding to question: Why meet at a dark Texaco station instead of meeting at the hotel?)
When the Posse arrived (10pm), they explained to the ground crew where the Private Planes land that one of the kids received a phone message and they think it was from Natalee. The ground crew has a close relationship with Croes to be able to get rental phones for VIPs, so the ground crew called him and passed the phone to Beth who explained Natalee's character and that she was missing and her best friend received a strange call and if he could help them locate what phone it came from. Charles lives close to exactly the same distance from the Texaco as the airport, so it was a matter of location, distance and timing that Charles chose the Gas Station. The HI would have been another 2 miles away.

<snipped>

Quote from: Tamikosmom on January 30, 2008, 12:31:46 PM

Thank you Anna.

The implication of Julia Renfro's words imply that Charles Croes was contacted by one of the handlers while the Twitty group was still at the airport and ... Beth was the one who spoke to Charles Croes ... requested his assistance and ... then the arranged meeting took place almost immediately ... prior to the Twitty group meeting up with Paul Lily and Eric Williams at the Holiday Inn.

The assertations and timeline spew forth from the leader of the misinformation campaign goes against the all the claims of Natalee's mother and stepfather.

Beth's words in LOVING NATALEE reveals that the handlers drove the group directly to the Holiday Inn where she had her first encounter with Eric Williams.

Jug's response to the Monkeys' questionaire ... Eric Williams contacted Charles Croes.

Beth's words in LOVING NATALEE reveals that it was Eric Williams who introduced her and Jug to Charles Croes at the early morning meeting at the gas station.

Janet

+++++++++++++


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 36
All of us load up into the handlers’ big white van and head for the Holiday Inn.

Page 38
We arrive at the Holiday Inn, get out of the van, and go inside the open-air lobby of the hotel. The coach and DEA agent are to our left, and we turn to walk toward them. I go straight to the DEA agent and begin telling him what we know

Page 41
The DEA agent asks for Natalee's cell phone and passport. …The agent looks at Natalee's things a few moments, then gives them back to me.
 
Page 41
When I return to the lobby the DEA agent suggest we go to Carlos 'n Charlie's to as questions and show her picture around. So we load up and head back to the shipyard area.
 
Page 42
Making their way inside the bar the men dodge a couple of fistfights and dope-smoking patrons to try to find someone with information. They don't learn anything, so we all load up again and drive to a nearby gas station, where the DEA agent wants to introduce us to someone associated with the island cell-phone company to help us get phones and set up communications among our group.


Jug Twitty
Monkey Questionaire
January 29, 2008

<snipped>

2)Do you know who called in Charles Croes that first night?

Jug: Eric Williams

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg333731#msg333731


Quote from: private eye on January 30, 2008, 05:30:29 PM

According to Matt, the phone call was made Sunday morning in the early AM, and due to the date they first mistook it for a call the night Natalee disappeared, which would have been Monday, in the AM, if I stated that correctly. It was a valid call, only it was the night before Natalee disappeared.

When I called the Monday when Beth was first notified that Natalee was missing, I called 3 FBI locations, Wahington DC, and then a neighboring island, I can't spell it but it was Car? where we have a US office. This was about 1:00PM Monday or so, and one of those offices explained that we had no presence in Aruba, but that we happened to have a US agent there of some kind, I really can't remember the exact type, but that they would contact him, advise him of the situation, I told them that a chaperone was still there, and they assured me he would be ables to assist Beth. This was before Beth even got to Birmingham, she was outside of Memphis.

That is why I have always thought this guy was legit, because I expected him to be there. To be honest, I didn't talk to Beth personally before she got to Aruba, I was left a message with my family, and I didn't talk to her for some time after she got to Aruba.
 

From Tamikosmom

PI

You answered the question presented to Jug for which he was unable to provide an immediate response ... the question pertaining to how the DEA got involved.  You affirmed Beth's words regarding the DEA issue and ... you also cleared up the controversy regarding the voice message recording.  All in one post!

Thanks you so much.

Janet

++++++++++++

Jug Twitty
SM Questionaire
January 29, 2008

4) Do you know how this DEA agent got involved?

Jug: Will have to find out from Paul Lilly who we have tried to get in touch with but can't.


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 40
All of us are dumbfounded by this blasé attitude. No one would direct the coach to island police authorities or give him any helpful information. So he kept vigil in the lobby. He was at a complete loss until the U.S. DEA agent surfaced on the island.


Jug Twitty
Monkey Questionair
January 29, 2008

1) The phone call Charles Croes listened to on William's voice mail that first night, was that found to be a misscall having nothing to do with the case?

Jug: yes


Beth Twitty
Birmingham Meeting/Questions and Answers (BFN)
October 28, 2006

15. Did Natalee make any phone calls that night?

There was a strange call to a friend of hers (William) but there is no evidence that it was from Natalee. The message was on his Cell phone and he retreived it on the airplane on the way home.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2548.msg334170#msg334170

[MumInOhio]

Post from Caps regarding Charles Croes address...

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know?
« Reply #2620 on: February 25, 2008, 02:18:56 PM »

Yes, it only state a bussiness to a person.. if the Bussiness is closed, the database show it up as a non-active bussiness.

if the bussiness move, the address also is change. but I see several names that do not have a bussiness no more in the database......

the GDI is a new database of where every house is listed and the current address of a person is and so can locate the house.

in the case of Steve Croes, THe address he mention is where his Telepone calling businesss is register is Shiribana 3-I

In GDI when search, do not exist but the map show the house.

The map Show all the house location but the Shi3-I is not in the database....strange....but it does exist in real life. but you can not SQL it.

This make me believe that the land/house on the MAP is not link to anyone. all other land/house location is link to an Address. exept this one. it was the SHI-3I that cought my attention.

Strange.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.2620

[MumInOhio]

From the FP, the day of the Greta interview…

CharlesII on June 30th, 2005 6:50 pm
Didya’ll see the Current Affair, where the lady said they are going tonaming a “Person of Interest” who is an American and who was on thebeach when JVDS and NH were? They were saying JVDS didn’t have enough time and this other person may have,maybe a jealous classmate or ex boyfriend?

Greta Interview…Charles seems confused with the times he went to the van der Sloots. Arrived at 3 the first time, but left the police station around 2.45 the second time. And says he had never heard of the van der Sloots before that night! Charles must be a relatively new member of IFA?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161233,00.html

Paul van der Sloot's Changing Story
Thursday, June 30, 2005
This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," June 29, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Stunning new information about Joran van der Sloot's (search) lies. Less than 24 hours after Natalee Holloway (search) disappeared, before he was questioned by police, Joran Van Der Sloot had already made up a story about what happened that night.

Charles Croes spoke with Joran in the early morning hours of May 31. Earlier today, Charles told us about that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: Charles, take me back to May 30th, which is several hours after Natalee missed her flight. How did you first get wind of the fact that Beth Holloway Twitty (search) was looking for her daughter?
CHARLES CROES, TALKED TO DUTCH SUSPECT: A major friend of mine called me up. He was working with Natalee's mom to help them find Natalee.   
VAN SUSTEREN: Why would he call you? What is your occupation that would be    a reason he would call you?
C. CROES: Well, I have a sail rental company. And there was apparently a phone call made. And he was calling me betting or hoping that the phone call was made from one of our phones, and so that's why he called me.
VAN SUSTEREN: About what time did he call you?
C. CROES: He called me at 11:30.
VAN SUSTEREN: What did he say to you?
C. CROES: He told me that he needed my help. And I asked him what it was about. And he told me that it had to do something with a cell phone. And I didn't relate it to anything but work at that point.And then he said, "There is a possibility that a phone call was made using one of our phones." And I said, "OK." And he said, "It's very, very important." I said, "Fine," and I asked him to go into further details, and he did. And then I made arrangements to go see him.
VAN SUSTEREN: When you got to the gas station, did you talk to Beth?
C. CROES: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did Beth have any idea at that point, as far as you knew, who her daughter had been seen with or who she had last been known to be with?
C. CROES: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: What did she tell you?
C. CROES: Specifically, she told me that her daughter went to Carlos and Charlie's, and that, while there, she had met up with a young guy and asked him to take her home, and that she got into a small silver or gray car that had a large exhaust on the back and tinted windows, and had left.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she have names for any of these people or just that description?
C. CROES: She had a description of the car and she had a description of one tall Dutch guy. And at that time, she said, with darkish hair.
VAN SUSTEREN: During the time that you were talking to Beth at the gas station, did the discussion of that phone call come up again?
C. CROES: Yes, it did.
VAN SUSTEREN: After you and Beth listened to that phone call several times and hung up with the person in the states, what did you do next?
C. CROES: After that, we spoke a while. And then we left that location with the intention of going to the Holiday Inn to continue meeting. On the way there, a young man and I were sitting in my car. And on the way there, instinctively, I wanted to go to drive off, pull over to the cabana area, just to look to see if perhaps she was there.
VAN SUSTEREN: Then where did you go?
C. CROES: Then we continued on track over to the Holiday Inn. And we were supposed to turn over to go into the Holiday Inn. And I had made a decision not to and went straight ahead. And going straight ahead, I made another decision to go to the beach area.
VAN SUSTEREN: What happened when you got there?
C. CROES: When I got there, there were three cars there. One was pulling out. It was a black car. There was another car parked there. And there was a car with kids in it. And I made the decision to talk to the kids. I got out of the car and, in talking to the kids, and describing what had happened, and explained to them why it is I was approaching them at this hour of the night and asking these questions.I then described Joran. At this point, I wasn't sure about his name. And they asked me what kind of car he drove. And I wasn't sure. And I said, "But we do know that he was in a silver or gray metallic car, small car with a large exhaust." One of the guys says, "Oh, that's Joran."I then spoke to him, and I said, "Would you kindly lead us to his home? Do you know where he lives?" And he said, "Sure." And he got in our car. And we went over to the house.
VAN SUSTEREN: So you drove over to the Van der Sloot home. And any idea about what time you arrived there?
C. CROES: Close to 3:00.
VAN SUSTEREN: Prior to that time when you went to the house, had you ever heard of the Van der Sloots or had you ever been to their house before?
C. CROES: Never.
VAN SUSTEREN: So then what happened next?
C. CROES: What happened next was that, in the interim of doing that, we had notified the family that we had found a house. Then they asked us to meet them at the police station. So we went back over to the police station.
VAN SUSTEREN: About how far is the police station from the Van der Sloot house?
C. CROES: Actually very close.
VAN SUSTEREN: So what did do you next? What time did you leave the police station about?C. CROES: Some time between 2:40, 2:30, 2:45… at that time.
VAN SUSTEREN: A.M.?
C. CROES: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: And where did you go?
C. CROES: Right to the house.
VAN SUSTEREN: Who went?
C. CROES: All of the people that were there, myself included.
VAN SUSTEREN: Meaning Beth and her husband, the police… were there some other friends from the United States with them?
C. CROES: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: What happened when you got to the house?
C. CROES: When we got to the house, the police asked us to stay back. And they went to the front door, or the entrance. And they beeped the horn. No one responded. And they then did their police siren kind of thing. And no one responded. They did it several times, and then finally Mr. Van der Sloot came out.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you hear what he said?
C. CROES: I heard bits of the conversation but not the whole conversation, because I was still back.
VAN SUSTEREN: What bits did you hear?
C. CROES: I heard bits that he didn't know where his son was. I heard bits that referred to him having picked up his son at a McDonald's, those kind of things. There was nothing that was tied together, just little bits of conversation that were coming out.
VAN SUSTEREN: What did you then do next?
C. CROES: We went to the Wyndham Hotel.
VAN SUSTEREN: Why did you go to the Wyndham?
C. CROES: There was a feeling that Joran may be there playing poker.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did Paul Van der Sloot go with this entourage to the Wyndham Hotel?
C. CROES: Yes, he did.
VAN SUSTEREN: Who did he travel with?
C. CROES: I believe he went with the police.
VAN SUSTEREN: What happened when you got to the Wyndham? What did you do?
C. CROES: We went up to the casino area, and it was closing down, talking to some people. And they mentioned that they thought they had seen them there. They thought they had seen Natalee there, but there was no level of certainty.
VAN SUSTEREN: After all of you were at the Wyndham, and you learned that Joran was not there, what was the next thing that happened?
C. CROES: We then went back over to the Van der Sloots' house.
VAN SUSTEREN: Prior to arriving at the Van der Sloot's house, did you hear Paul Van der Sloot say anything at all about Natalee, about the disappearance, or any information? Did he seem to know anything at all about the disappearance?C. CROES: No.

(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: Much more of our interview with Charles Croes is coming up in just a moment. He's going to tell us what happened when they got back to the Van Der Sloot house that night, or that morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAN SUSTEREN: Earlier today, we spoke with Charles Croes, one of the first people to speak with Joran Van der Sloot after Natalee Holloway disappeared. Charles told us that the night after Natalee vanished, he, Natalee's family, and Paul Van der Sloot went searching for Joran at the casino but they didn't find him. I asked him what happened when they returned to the Van der Sloot house in the very early morning hours of May 31st.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
C. CROES: When we got back, all of us got back to the Van der Sloot home, Joran was there, as well as the father, of course. And then Joran came out, spoke to the police.
VAN SUSTEREN: When you first saw Joran and his father, where were there and where were you?
C. CROES: They were standing by the gate area. And I was arriving in the car I was driving, and I saw them. And then I parked the car, and got out, and walked over to the side.
VAN SUSTEREN: Tell me next what you heard, what you saw.
C. CROES: I heard that there was some questioning going back and forth. And I heard the father several times say, "You know, is there anything we can do? You know, we're here to help." I heard Joran say, you know, "I'm willing to help, I'm willing to help, I'm willing to help."
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you hear Joran tell what happened that night, the last he'd seen of Natalee? What did he say?
C. CROES: Yes, I did hear him. And what he said was that they picked him up — or Natalee got into the car with them.
VAN SUSTEREN: At what time?
C. CROES: I'm not sure that he gave me the time. I have heard since then that it was 11:00ish or so.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did he say whether he knew Natalee from any earlier experience?C. CROES: Yes, he did.
VAN SUSTEREN: What did he say?
C. CROES: He said that he had been gambling and that he met Natalee. And Natalee told him that she had lost some money and was trying to recuperate it before she went home. And he apparently was a good poker player, or blackjack player, whatever it is, and that he helped her recoup some of her monies, and gave it back to her. And she then considered him her lucky charm.
VAN SUSTEREN: When does the story pick up again? When does he next see her, that you know?
C. CROES: Well, he next told me that he was at Carlos and Charlie's, and that they were dancing. And then that she asked for a ride home.
VAN SUSTEREN: Can you give me the details, every single word exactly how he said it, that you recall?
C. CROES: That I recall, in the details was that he told me that she was coming on to him, and dancing provocatively, and then she said she wanted to have him take her home. He then agreed to that. And they went out, I guess, and they got in the car. She got in the car, and they drove off.
VAN SUSTEREN: Was there any sexual discussion at all?
C. CROES: Yes, there was.
VAN SUSTEREN: What was your observation of his demeanor at the time he was telling you these things?
C. CROES: Very uncomfortable young guy, very, very nervous, very uncomfortable.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did he describe whether or not she seemed to have had too much to drink or anything that night?
C. CROES: Yes, he did. He told me that she had been doing drugs and possibly been drinking, too.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did he indicate whether he was doing drugs or drinking?C. CROES: He said that he had been drinking.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did he say how much he'd been drinking?
C. CROES: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: So what did Joran say happened to Natalee? I mean, at some point, the story continues.
C. CROES: Yes. He then said that they made a decision — that they were driving around. They made a decision to take her to the lighthouse to show her the lighthouse. They went up to the lighthouse, were there for a little while.And then she was acting so crazy that he just wanted to take her home, back to the hotel. And that he took her to the hotel, pulled into the front, and opened the door, and that she got out. And when she got out, she tripped and fell.
VAN SUSTEREN: Then what?
C. CROES: And then got up, continued to walk into the Holiday Inn hotel.
VAN SUSTEREN: And is that where he said he last saw her?
C. CROES: That's exactly what he said.
VAN SUSTEREN: It's about 5 o'clock in the morning on Tuesday, May 31st. She missed her flight on Monday, the 30th, midday.
C. CROES: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: There's been absolutely no news, no newspaper cycle, to indicate that Natalee Holloway is missing, right, at that point?
C. CROES: OK.
VAN SUSTEREN: So somehow Joran decided to come up with this lie about the Holiday Inn, assuming that's a lie, and I guess that's pretty much been accepted as a lie?
C. CROES: All right.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything that he told you or he said that would suggest that he had any sort of inkling that she was missing and there was some foul play?
C. CROES: No. What he said to me — he repeated to me over and over again was his desire to help find her, that if there's anything he could do to help find her, he would, just please ask him, that kind of thing. It was a very — at that point, it was a scared young guy who seemed to be wanting to help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)
Watch "On the Record" weeknights at 10 p.m. ET

[MumInOhio]

Email to Grande...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=397.360

 Lively Case Discussion #529 10/2 - 10/7/2006
« Reply #372 on: October 03, 2006, 09:44:58 PM » 

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I am hoping to expand on this dialogue and the statements within,  therefore I am posting it for all to view...   

Please email me if you have anything further to add > tdbweb2003@yahoo.com

 “Did you know that the missing girls family sent a private investigator to my home at midnight to do a voice analysis on me? Are you aware that this was done without preparing me beyond a phone call only moments prior to getting to the house. Are you also aware that these folks also did not come clean. They pretended to be doing a story for a major paper that was there to uncover the whole truth. And .. are you aware that the voice stress test came up 100% clean? did you know that? Are you aware that I have been grilled and questioned by (in excess of) 4 different groups? Are you aware that there was never a trace of variance nor was there ever any inkling of lack of anything but truth and cooperation? Did you know that? go back and do some real homewark. Get your facts straight. Find out that because I made the decision to help a mother during a terrible moment in her life that this same family took an oath to "Burn Aruba To The Ground" You can quote me on that to Mr. Judd. Are you aware that there was a concious effort made to destroy my business? We suffered cancellations and many other hardships and practically had to close our doors. Why? William it happened because we wanted to help. Practically all persons that interviewed me - manipulated my words to their comfort and to get to those persons most likely to be affected by the trash that was printed. I for one, canont cater to an Enquirer based culture. It is a waste of all our times.”

Grande: You stated... "are you aware that the voice stress test came up 100% clean? did you know that?"  I can't answer that as I am unaware of the context of this statement and who it refers too. Yourself or Joran?

 “I refer to myself. I was asked many trick questions that appeared to be a part of a conversation and (try as they did) the test stayed completely in the "Green Zone" In other words, I did not lie and was not under stress in my coments. Why? Simple - nothing to gain from lying and everything to gain from helping a distraught family. Simply put, I told the truth. And equally as simply put, it was not a convenient thing for the family to have out there, so that truth was hidden. Not squashed, but hidden. I have nothing to hide from anyone that is earnest in their approach to me. Try to understand the horrible - beyond words - circumstances that existed and that we all lived through and imagine for a moment that as horrible as we all fealt, that we knew - or assumed - that the family suffered countless times more. We will talk again since I feel that the person that wrote the article about me also did not do his homework. I repeat the following question : "I am interested in your use of the word Shango. Perhaps you will find it in your heart to reveal this? Dig deep."

Grande: "I am interested in your use of the word Shango. Perhaps you will find it in your heart to reveal this? Dig deep." I appreciate your time again. The reference is to the Shango that posted on Scared Monkeys who presumably had inside information. The posts originated from an ISP in the Plantation,  Florida area, which coincidentally is the same are Gabriel Leo now lives and has for quite some time with Jairo and Myrna. Frankly, I felt that you were the source of the information in hopes of expediting the investigation, there in lies my motive for the reference, although looking back I regret making. Would you care to explain your use of the term "Mr. Judd"?

 “Mr. Judd is what I started calling Beths husband. He was very judgmental about Aruba and its people and referred to us as: Island idiots Island Niggers Cock suckers Ass holes And on and on and on From Judge came Judd etc. He cooled his jets a little when he had an official complaint made against him for pushing a woman that was holding a baby. He is truly a Disney kind of guy. Quite a fellah”

Grande: “Sander's phone wasn't really lost was it? It was Sander's phone that was used to make that early morning phone call correct? If you can discount this I would be grateful.”

 “Let me see if I can satisfy this apparent apetite you have for this matter with some truth and not speculation. HONEST AND PURE ANSWER: I do not know this and my inclination is to answer that up until today, no one is sure. Why do I say that? Consider that it was the principal reason that they called me that night. I was called to see if the phone was one of our company phones. It wasn't and after multiple questioning on that topic and reviewing our files repeatedly, we definately knew that the phone was not ours. After that, my involvement was more dedicated to being of assistance to the family and not to phone issues, with the exception of answering questions related to that topic. As big of a deal as it was at the onset, it seemed to die off - with all parties - not just one side or the other. So I canno0t discount or affirm your statement since I simply do not know and was not in the info loop regarding this issue…”

Grande: “Isn't this phone call a matter of  public record via the civil suit recently ruled against? Is it that you are just not willing to provide a detail like that…” 

 “Yes it was Julia Renfro that he pushed. Real American Hero isn't he? Only other thing he could have done to "trump" that piece of bravado was to find a puppy to kick. Regarding details on phone calls, trust me that if I did have details about the phone call, I would be telling them to anyone that asked os asks today, however there is no reason to invent an interesting lie instead of telling the boring truth. There is just too much to be lost in hiding the truth. Regarding Geoffrey and drug use or selling and buying, I am completely and honestly not in that info loop. It did not get involved in her drug activities beyond being made aware by various persons (over time)that those activities existed. Is it true? DO NOT KNOW and WAS NOT THERE. My goal at the time was the goal to find her as soon as posible so I dedicated efforts to the imediate and not to events leading up to it. The Caribbean or anywhere else on earth has its' cultures, sub-cultures and their underground worlds. Since many island nations are small, those cultures and sub worlds are simply harder to hide and so much more obvious. Getting sucked into them is not hard on one hand and on the other, these cultures are so obvious to the naked eye that they can be easily avoided by the savvy or alert person. What happens is that there is an aspect that I call a "Delicious danger" and much like moths to flames, they are attractive to that small lurid side that resides in 99% of us. "No-one-will-know" is much too often the mistaken reasoning for entering into situations that should be avoided. if you are (as you say you are) committed to the truth, then you will have to walk the many mazes of deception and misinformation. Consider that in protecting the innocent, we have to assume that the innocent is just that - innocent. So .... Who was or is at fault? Which path would have been the best to take? Where will your enquiries lead you? Let me know, and remember a small script left behind by one of our most famouse historical figures; "Cerca Trova" My ability to visualize what would happen was nothing more than an analysis of the logical outcome. Consider what I had as information at the time: Mother and Step Father are looking for a lost daughter They have the finances to get on a provate jet and come here Mother is distraught Step father sits around sulking all the time Step father was against the girl taking the trip While not attractive, the girl is white and blonde Her chaperones are misteriously not being held responsible Her highschool friends did not go to her aid Her firends hop on a plane the following day and say bye to Aruba and ... She is seen leaving with three young men (strange thing to do) She says her mother is related to Hitler She insinuates she is a virgin She is said to be using drugs that evening The young man is an odd-ball at best The young man is articulate for his age and intelligent (off the scale). There is an air or aura of "things being hidden" by ALL SIDES. As the days followed the initial night of my involvement, I saw the group of people grow into a circus of those looking for attention. Anything and everything was coming out of the woodwork - most of it bull shitters. What good can come of this? What are the truths behind it all? Is it easy for a mother to admitt that her daughter is not 100% pure? Why would a step-father not be more supportive? Why so much drinking with the boys at night when the searches came to an end. Why so much talk about connections with (and I quote) The supreme highest person in America. Shortly after that Ms. Rice (USA) makes statements and consoles the parents. Did she do this to other parents in America? It all stunk to high heaven and it prompted me to make the statement that I did. If looked at from that point of view, it is a simple deduction and nothing more. I just happened to be at (hate this term) "Ground Zero". some day (perhaps) you and I will have an opportunity to talk face to face. You will realize then that the statements in Vanity Fair were actually an UNFAIR and VAIN way for a magazine to sell copies. I asked them twice for the copies of the final script to make sure that I was properly quoted. What did I get? A final edition only days before it was on the stands. This is the way America showed its face here. While not representative of the country, as a whole, it was not a pretty sight. Consider the cast of characters: Would you send Mr. Judd to represent the USA at the "Good-Guy" olympics? NOPE! Is it fair to say that a mother that goes through the anquish that she did might act in a manner that is not normal to her calmer side or persona? YEP! So you have two persons that for their own reasons are not at their best, yet we listen to their every word as if they were letters of gold. Think and if all else fails you, CERCA TROVA And know that to look for the truth is a good thing, however to tell it is both noble and sometimes not popular. you cought me at just the right momment on this topic. That is the only reason that I have taken to time to state what I did. Next time you meet that man or lady that wrote that piece about me (the one you gave me the link too) - tell that person that there is a mule in my back yard and that they are welcome to go there and kiss that mule. I only say that because the article is untruthfull and written by an obvious self serving personality. hope you arent the mule lover…”

Grande:  “I apreciate your response on all accounts. Please allow me a few moments to digest what you have written as I intend to fully respond. Have we dropped the Shango dialogue for any particular reason?”

 “If we ever meet in person, I will share it with you. It has nothing to do with NH”

Grande: “Is there any chance you can expand on your latest response…”

 “It is simple. In the religion that I practice, "Chango" is one of the more important Saints. Often times, people misuse that name or spell it incorrectly. That is a very bad thing to do . Kind of like mispelling Jesus. It is a personal thing. Nothing more. Cerca Trova”

Grande: “Did Gabriel post on your behalf?...”

 “You are not the first one to ask me about Gabriel. I do not know a "Gabriel" and do not know what he/she posted. Want to fill me in? Wisdom - give that term solid thought. Wisdom certainly does not reside in this skull. YOu and I walk the same paths - only difference being that my point of view is that of the Carribean while your is that of your surroundings…”

Grande: “For as long as I can recall, Gabriel Leo has been accredited with 'jumping the fence' at the Van Der Sloots on that Tuesday morning (what a Tuesday it must have been, one you won't soon forget, regret on the other hand...) My understanding is that he wrote down Deepak's license plate prior to the Holloway/Twitty’s arriving. Quite honestly I was under the impression he was the one that assisted you in getting to the VDS residence at appx. 2:40am. Perhaps this picture of Gabriel http://i3.tinypic.com/169lvls.jpg will provide will evoke a memory. It is widely accepted that Gabriel was at the VDS residence the night the search was initiated…”

 “It ws such a blurr that I try to only stick to the facts that I can aver to without hesitation and Gabrial isn't one of them.. Not saying the lad was't there, just saying I do not recall…”

[MumInOhio]

This was posted by Charles Croes...the day before the last Peter de Vries show...

Re: Holloway case solved

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes the SUM is as insane as the parts making it up and the disregard for those grieving is as minute as is the true care for the feelings of humans.


Reporters swear that they know what happened and will proove it - at night they dream of anchor jobs with major networks. All the while hopes are raised only to be dropped and recycled in a horrid bin of pain. There is a tendancy to vie for who will solve the case first as opposed to who will find out what the truth is.
Those that lie, continue lying and then say it was only a joke.
Those that are no longer here - cannot see the circus they left behind - perhaps a good thing.
Camera men travel to far off lands while reading pamphlets on their destinations and promising the kids that they will bring back "Neat T-Shits".
News broadcasters speak to lenses and in-turn to millions while wearing a shirt, tie, coat and bermuda shorts - whispering off camera, "Shoot from the waist up and How is the surf?".
It is, to say the least - a sad manner for humans to behave themselves.


OK, Let's see how this works.

Hi - my name is XYZ and I am supposed to have been involved in the dissapearance of a certain person and as I understand it, (wile she did write a book about it) her mom is truly grieving. She must be upset because what supposedly happened caused her to divorce her Husband (who was also accused of a bunch of stuff) and now she wed a gentleman that has had a similar event in his life. HMM I can understand that grief cause my Mom lives it also. Dad is non-judgemental about it all, however is this Sons' best buddy.

Anyway, my two buddies (brothers actually) have a funny last name - KLAPHOLE I believe, and while none of us are ever innocent of anything, they are equally as "not-guilty" of anything as I am. I know that cause (while joking around) they told me that they were guilty. I, of course- kept that to myself.

So there I was chatting with this guy and he gives me bad wine and I refused to drink it and then he "p...es" me off by asking me if I like the year so ... I just felt that it was the correct thing to do to toss the wine in his face. Not in a nasty mode but just to let him taste how bitter his product was. Anyway we shook hands and started to chat again and then I really got back at him and the Mom and the millions of people all over the world. I lied. Yep. I told a fib.

I said - "I did it!!!! Funny right? Right? Right?" "Hey - I'm kidding - alright??!

Actually as I think back on it, it was a stupid thing to do so I will have to go on TV tonight and say that I was kidding.

Anyway, it makes sense to me. - Right??


+++++++++++

If ever there was a fire that was not in need of fuel it would be this one. It will not ever burn out - no need to throw in more wood.

be well
charles

http://bb.visitaruba.com/f2/holloway-case-solved-8656/#post74356
 

[Miss Scarlet]

Mum,

Regarding your post above, one of the statements,

"if you are (as you say you are) committed to the truth, then you will have to walk the many mazes of deception and misinformation."

What an odd thing to say!  It surely sounds like a degree of involvement on his part.  This is a game Aruba plays all too often  They never thought they would be caught, much less run into such a formidable opponent as Beth.  What they don't get, and never will is all the prayer of God loving people behind her.  They'll all come down eventually and even if not in their lifetime, the eternal price to be paid is clearly beyond their comprehension, at least at this juncture.  They are in for a world of hurt to be sure.  They have yet to see and understand that the earthly price for their misdeeds is nothing compared to what their current eternal state appears to be.

So sad indeed.

[MumInOhio]

Mum,

Regarding your post above, one of the statements,

"if you are (as you say you are) committed to the truth, then you will have to walk the many mazes of deception and misinformation."

What an odd thing to say!  It surely sounds like a degree of involvement on his part.  This is a game Aruba plays all too often  They never thought they would be caught, much less run into such a formidable opponent as Beth.  What they don't get, and never will is all the prayer of God loving people behind her.  They'll all come down eventually and even if not in their lifetime, the eternal price to be paid is clearly beyond their comprehension, at least at this juncture.  They are in for a world of hurt to be sure.  They have yet to see and understand that the earthly price for their misdeeds is nothing compared to what their current eternal state appears to be.

So sad indeed.

Thanks Miss Scarlet...I missed the Maze reference...I have looked at the "Cerca Trova" quote...Seek and You shall Find...He refers to the old reference, but in the urban dictionary the phrase used is...I can't find my cell phone...the response...Cerca Trova...Coincidence that Charles is in the cell phone business...

Too many coincidences with Charles Croes...I would like to know the 4 groups he was questioned by...ALE, FBI, Dutch Interrogators...Who could be the Fourth?

[MumInOhio]

Posted by BUCKSHOT...

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #441 on: Today at 12:17:30 AM »

This is an email from Charles Croes. Ain't it interesting that he states he signed a non-disclosure agreement.
From: Fastphones Aruba
[Add to Address Book]
To: {{removed your email address}}
Subject: Re: Just wondering…
Date: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:36:55 PM [View Source]
I have signed a NDA agreement with two different police departments to not discuss this further.

COULD CHARLES CROES BE MORE INVOLVED WITH HIGHER-UPS? REMEMBER IN DAVE'S BOOK HE TALKED ABOUT GOING INTO DENNIS JACOBS OFFICE AND CHARLES CROES - THE CELL PHONE GUY WAS THERE

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.440