Lively Case Discussion #664 7/24 - 7/25/2007

[wreck]

I wonder if Lorenzo's father committed "suicide" with his hand in his pocket?  

[Tibrogargan]

Hey Tibro.  How's the land down under?

Hey Lala's ... all's well this end of the globe  
As usual I arrive in time to wave most of the monkeys off to bed.
Great to see some new (to me, anyway) monkey faces here today.

And as I expected, BT did not take long to find a Chokky place.  

If Guido was the fifth suspect, then he certainly waltzed away, all the way to Netherlands and is still the only one charged with heavy battery.

[Lala'sMom]

I am not Klaas, but I think I know about Loon.  He's the guy that Bondia snapped that dumb photo of for me one time.  Now, that I think about it, I get mad because she was laughing at me the whole time...I sure got fooled by her.  I think his last name is van Loon.

[Lala'sMom]

I wonder if Lorenzo's father committed "suicide" with his hand in his pocket?  

Yeah, that would be interesting wouldn't it?

[the big hammer]

An Old Post relevent to topic currently discussed:
____________________________________________

Get Inside Spin Cycle

Shizaru writes: "... Natalee is totally disoriented and may not even realize where they are. She stumbles and falls when she gets out of the car, as 2K described in their original story..."

The "original" story is dished up at ISA on May 30, 2005. We have heard numerous tales of goon demeanor at school this day: he sleeps on floor, he aces tests, he is incoherent and bumbles thru day, etc.

BUT -- ISA headmaster reports that jvds has told stories at school, evidently corroborated by classmates that Natalee "fell and hit her head and then drowned while swimming."

THIS IS CRITICAL. For two reasons -- and two reasons ONLY. These reasons do not revolve around core veracity of story: ie, she hits head and drowns (as these two events could be independently linked to a sequential event -- because they can't...).

The two reasons are:

1. This story as told by jvds at school PRECEDES any poolside strategy session. These few hours are the only hours in which goon operates outside the purview of handlers and managers -- he is on his own, And true to form, he is babbling. pvds poolsode strategy w/ k2 had to happen at earliest AFTER SCHOOL on 5/30. This is the ONLY opportunity we have to see goon tell tale unvarnished (though likely untruthful).

2. Regardless of all the tales spun regarding events of the evening in question, jvds relays story to classmates that Natalee Ann Holloway is DEAD. For my analytic purposes, all the rest sits second. Within 7-8 hours of meeting and leaving w/ Natalee from C&C's -- Joran Van Der Sloot is relaying a story at school that natalee is DEAD.

We know from book that on 5/31 ISA headmaster called jvds and pvds to school meeting and asked for accounting of evening in question. It was at this meeting that paulus offered up take of broken HI tape missing the drop off his son previously described the nite before to HT family.

Further, we have unconfirmed reports that headmaster phoned Anita in Holland to tell her son to "STFU" on 5/30, prompting Anita to engage her deviant son via phone and to catch next available flight from Holland to Aruba arriving June 1. Which she did.

Further, and most importantly, after babbling at ISA on 5/30 about the drowning death of Natalee Holloway, jvds was ready with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT story when HT family arrived in his father's driveway only 11 hours later (assuming school release is 3:00pm 5/30 and HT arrive in driveway at 2:00am on 5/31).

Getting inside the spin cycle and observing goon BEFORE he could be managed is KEY. Left to his own devices, and while any other perp would have been organizing an uneventful and routine daily procedure, jvds was saying all the wrong things at the wrong time.

Gimme a break -- they had him "dead to rights."
________________________________________________

Joran killed Natalee on the first night: May 30 2005 -- he has already said so.

.

[AZLady]

So that makes Steve Croes the 5th suspect.  Geez! I am confused again.

Aren't we all?  Isn't the 5th suspect the one with the airtight alibi who was the boyfriend from earlier in the week?  Or am I mixing this up?

[ospainter]

I am not Klaas, but I think I know about Loon.  He's the guy that Bondia snapped that dumb photo of for me one time.  Now, that I think about it, I get mad because she was laughing at me the whole time...I sure got fooled by her.  I think his last name is van Loon.

I was here back then and I remember her doing that.

I just thought there was a resemblence to one of the G brothers. Might just be my eyes. She was a real winner wasn't she.

After reading what Dayhiker brought tonight, that witch has been spreading lies about Natalee from very early on. I wonder why?

Poor Beth and Jug, they got fooled also didn't they?

Such a shame,

OS

[Lala'sMom]

So that makes Steve Croes the 5th suspect.  Geez! I am confused again.

Aren't we all?  Isn't the 5th suspect the one with the airtight alibi who was the boyfriend from earlier in the week?  Or am I mixing this up?

According to Simian that is correct.

[AZLady]

Absolutely, Hammer.  The key is that Joran is telling everyone Natalee is dead.  Whether she fell, hit head, drowned, or any other method, he is telling everyone at ISA that she is dead.  That is the key.

[AZLady]

So that makes Steve Croes the 5th suspect.  Geez! I am confused again.

Aren't we all?  Isn't the 5th suspect the one with the airtight alibi who was the boyfriend from earlier in the week?  Or am I mixing this up?

According to Simian that is correct.

Then, who has an airtight alibi?  Lorenzo.  He's the only one who has an alibi for that night.

[klaasend]

Weren't we told Natalee had $50.00 with her?

How much cocaine, jello shots, 151 rum can you get with $50.00?

Didn't Max give Lorenzo the "air tight" alibi?

Klaas, I was looking at the Alpabetized people, I saw a picture called "loon" and then looking at one of the Gottenboes (sp)  brothers, he looks like "loon" to me, can you look at them side by side and tell me what you think.

Thanks

Time to go nighty nighty.

Nice to see everyone

OS Out

You want a side by side of Vadir van Loon and the Gottenbos?  They really don't look alike, IMO.

[Observer]

I believe Joran told that to his teacher as beth has always wondered why she wasn't questioned. Remember the FBI was also called to interview that lady in N.Carolina who said that she was told the same story about Natalee hitting her and head and drowning. The witness denies the story but the guy who called them is credible.

[Shell]

So that makes Steve Croes the 5th suspect.  Geez! I am confused again.

Welcome to my world.

I am pondering if the following sceneario happened, that J and K2 are covering for someone else. Let's assume they really did leave her with someone else (mind you I do NOT think that is what happened). Either a person or a group of people. Who could that someone else be. What person or persons?

Just thinking out loud

[AZLady]

I do tend to think that the reference to "boyfriend" is sarcastic.  Perhaps he saw the MB kids earlier in the week and made a comment that he wanted to meet them.  Who knows?  (shrug)  I think the alibi is the key.  It's Lorenzo.  His alibi needs to be broken.  That's what Simian is telling us.

[Tibrogargan]

So that makes Steve Croes the 5th suspect.  Geez! I am confused again.

Aren't we all?  Isn't the 5th suspect the one with the airtight alibi who was the boyfriend from earlier in the week?  Or am I mixing this up?

Colour me confused as well.

OK if we look at Steve "mighty mouth" Croes he would fit in with the party theory as we know he is a DJ.  Was the party on the Tattoo and this is why he got the chop?

[AZLady]

So that makes Steve Croes the 5th suspect.  Geez! I am confused again.

Welcome to my world.

I am pondering if the following sceneario happened, that J and K2 are covering for someone else. Let's assume they really did leave her with someone else (mind you I do NOT think that is what happened). Either a person or a group of people. Who could that someone else be. What person or persons?

Just thinking out loud

Lorenzo.  

Lorenzo could find some way to hide the body or take it off the island.  He has drug contacts that would enable him to do this.

[klaasend]

Vadir Van Loon, Koen and Sander Gottenbos

[klaasend]

So that makes Steve Croes the 5th suspect.  Geez! I am confused again.

Welcome to my world.

I am pondering if the following sceneario happened, that J and K2 are covering for someone else. Let's assume they really did leave her with someone else (mind you I do NOT think that is what happened). Either a person or a group of people. Who could that someone else be. What person or persons?

Just thinking out loud

Lorenzo.  

Lorenzo could find some way to hide the body or take it off the island.  He has drug contacts that would enable him to do this.

Exactly!

[ospainter]

Weren't we told Natalee had $50.00 with her?

How much cocaine, jello shots, 151 rum can you get with $50.00?

Didn't Max give Lorenzo the "air tight" alibi?

Klaas, I was looking at the Alpabetized people, I saw a picture called "loon" and then looking at one of the Gottenboes (sp)  brothers, he looks like "loon" to me, can you look at them side by side and tell me what you think.

Thanks

Time to go nighty nighty.

Nice to see everyone

OS Out

You want a side by side of Vadir van Loon and the Gottenbos?  They really don't look alike, IMO.

I don't know anything about "Loon, just thought one of the photos "kinda" looked like him, if you all know about Vadir van Loon don't bother, I was just curious who he is. I will go look and see again who I am talking about.

Thanks,

OS

[AZLady]

I go back and forth between Lorenzo and Koen as the boatman who takes her body out into the ocean.  I used to think it was Koen who took the boat out.  After hearing about what a baby he is and everything, I'm leaning towards Lorenzo now.  This disposal would take someone like a Lorenzo to accomplish.  Actually, he might not have done it himself, but paid one of his drug runners from Venezuela to do the deed.