Lively Case Discussion #664 7/24 - 7/25/2007

[Nut44x4]

So, Lorenzo is the fourth suspect.  Then, the fifth suspect with the alibi might be Freddy, GVC or Guido.  GVC might be the most likely.  I have yet to hear what his alibi is, but according to Simian, it needs to be broken.

GVC was at home  

[Kimmy53]

Thanks for all your answers and encouragement-BBL and will fill you in ater I see him and talk to the DR.-Please pray for him.

GEL - I am sorry about the accident.  I think the other monkeys answered what I remembered about the spleen - He will be just fine.. I will offer up prayers for his quick and full recovery.

[klaasend]

O/T

BREAKING NEWS Fire and explosions visible near downtown Dallas. Source unknown. CBS 11 News crews enroute

Seems it's a liquid gas explosion

http://cbs11tv.com/

Liquid Gas Explosion Near Downtown Dallas

 
Smoke is rising near downtown Dallas. Dallas Fire dispatch says liquid natural gas cannisters are EXPLODING on South Industrial Boulevard near  the 1-30 and 1-35 interchange. At this point the area is being evacuated and Eastbound 1-30 has beenshutdown.

[SunFreak2]

Do you truly believe cocaine was involved?

Natalee doing cocaine..... ?

IF she was at Lorenzo's for a party.  Then cocaine most likely was there too.  Lorenzo is known for these type parties.  ( Didn't get that from Shango either)  Just because she was there does not mean she partook of the drug.  I am still on the GHB train right now.  For Natalee to have been compliant with this bunch of creeps they would need to drug her...no doubt. Regardless, of what the other side thinks, Natalee was not stupid.  She may have partied hearty while in Aruba, as does so many others, but she still was not stupid.  By the time she realized things were not on the up and up it was too late.  She couldn't get out of the situation.  It was one female against all those males.  You do the math.

Hello Monkeys. G'morning.

I agree with Lala's.  GHB vs Natalee.

[oldfart]

G'Morning Monkeys

GEL   --- praying for a good outcome...


I know we do not have a complete list of all PV'S  but was wondering why
Guido Wever gave Notice to ALE about leaving Aruba for Holland on 6/7/2005? This was just after MJ anmd AJ were arrested?

Sounds like they may have talked to him earlier?
Just Wondering

Have a good day Monkeys

BBL

[mrs. red]

Thanks for all your answers and encouragement-BBL and will fill you in ater I see him and talk to the DR.-Please pray for him.

added to my prayers!  So sorry to hear about your brother.... keep us informed.

[mrs. red]

SO Klaas - since you saw that..  

remember the panty boy found the lysol and other stuff... what if some of the other stuff was a decoy? i.e. the big panties??  and this would be specultion on my part...

but what if they used ghb from the club and then tried to wake her up with coke?  and stupidly used liquid because she wasn't a willing participant?  Or better yet?  

what if they used the liquid cocaine to try and make the od theory stick?  this is why pvds got the money from the atm?  and when she can't function and goes into cardiac arrest she hits her head and (won't go graphic here) there is a lot of damage so they now think they can't lie with the Coke theory anymore... now she has to be taken out to the water or the landfill or wherever they put her.


I hope y'all can follow my reasoning here... it's a little unusual... (but as I was reading this is what stood out... that liquid coke smells like amonia....

[klaasend]

SO Klaas - since you saw that..  

remember the panty boy found the lysol and other stuff... what if some of the other stuff was a decoy? i.e. the big panties??  and this would be specultion on my part...

but what if they used ghb from the club and then tried to wake her up with coke?  and stupidly used liquid because she wasn't a willing participant?  Or better yet?  

what if they used the liquid cocaine to try and make the od theory stick?  this is why pvds got the money from the atm?  and when she can't function and goes into cardiac arrest she hits her head and (won't go graphic here) there is a lot of damage so they now think they can't lie with the Coke theory anymore... now she has to be taken out to the water or the landfill or wherever they put her.


I hope y'all can follow my reasoning here... it's a little unusual... (but as I was reading this is what stood out... that liquid coke smells like amonia....

The Lysol was found in a completely different area than the panties.  I don't think the panties were a decoy, but possibly a false lead.  Hard to say.

The Lysol bottle and VCB shirt were found near Baby Beach which is at the southern end of the island, closer to Lorenzo's home.

[Mere]

Good morning...!

GEL...praying for you and your brother.

Magnolia.....Welcome back...!  Have thought about you so often.
Hope you are well and cooking...!  

shadow...Welcome back!

Am I beginning to understand Simian...
Thanks to Lalas for keeping the dance going...!

[BUCKSHOT]

boggles my mind to think through play-by-play scenarios of how the night unfolded. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

once NH gave Joran confirmation that she may leave with him after bar, this would have been appropriate time for Joran to set up a spiked drink. (otherwise, why have her drink spiked if there wasn't a guarantee that NH would even leave with him after the bar closed and waste drug and money for drugged drink)

they (J2K) probably did as expected and drove around allowing time for drug to take effect on her already intoxicated body.  small talk, adolescent petting (J and NH) in back seat of car.  Deepak pisses on side of road.  NH may have realized at this point that trouble had befell her but did not have energy, logical thinking, or means to get out of situation.  

the three realized that their own homes were not the place to go. Joran would not take Nat to his own home with sleeping family, and Kalpoes surely would not go back to Nadira and their home.  somehere abandoned would serve the purpose here.  lighthouse area would work. i wonder about lighting to see what was going on.  why get it on inside car with friends present, although not out of the question.  ( i am open to ideas as to the scene of the alleged rape - where were condoms found ) while tourists may go to lighthouse area at this time of night, a native would know to go slightly beyond touristy area where they would be undetectable.  Nat, knowing her fate, probably had her blood boiling way beyond controllable, especially, if drugs in system. kicked and fought her best - assaulted by J2K while raped and eventually went into cardiac arrest, dying at the hands of J2K.  (unknown - who was in alleged white trailing car - Guido ??)

Heading back to high-rise area as needed to be seen for alibi purposes, stopped along the way, J2K + 1 guest player, sat and talked to think of plan. This could be where spotted by guy walking to work.  in car, J2K + guest - Nat either left at site of rape or in trunk.  (open to ideas as to guest or guests(plural). and 2nd car vs only K2 car) (also: was freddy-cameraman here or not. I TEND TO THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE RUIN A SECRET AND NO GUESTS OR ONLY 1 GUEST)

At this point, time to involve Daddy - Paulus. Paulus got on websites - porn, soccer, etc.. search=drugs+alcohol.  advised the boys to text each other as if home, told K bros to wash car thoroughly, not speak, and meet back in AM at Sloot house for further game plan.  Paulus comes to pick up Joran and dead NH at this point @ McD??? 4AM.

paulus and joran likely drove off into the night carrying out disposal plan. (no idea where they went) to LVR? - Sloot house? no clue.

meeting at the sloot house early around noon time. Paulus had a chance to work the phone early AM for favors and others involvement. Joran= no school this day, SK no school, DK afternoon work or no work.

the rest is history as other high powered, intelligently evil thinkers helped collaborate a corrupted and colluded plan from there and exectued as needed.

twittys did make them sweat it, tough, as their arrival was fast and furious.

just thinking out loud... any additions or disagreements to this timeline of events.

[Mere]

How far from C&Cs to Holiday Inn?.....miles and/or time?

[Lala'sMom]

Date of the quarry search?  Anyone? Please.

[mrs. red]

SO Klaas - since you saw that..  

remember the panty boy found the lysol and other stuff... what if some of the other stuff was a decoy? i.e. the big panties??  and this would be specultion on my part...

but what if they used ghb from the club and then tried to wake her up with coke?  and stupidly used liquid because she wasn't a willing participant?  Or better yet?  

what if they used the liquid cocaine to try and make the od theory stick?  this is why pvds got the money from the atm?  and when she can't function and goes into cardiac arrest she hits her head and (won't go graphic here) there is a lot of damage so they now think they can't lie with the Coke theory anymore... now she has to be taken out to the water or the landfill or wherever they put her.


I hope y'all can follow my reasoning here... it's a little unusual... (but as I was reading this is what stood out... that liquid coke smells like amonia....

The Lysol was found in a completely different area than the panties.  I don't think the panties were a decoy, but possibly a false lead.  Hard to say.

The Lysol bottle and VCB shirt were found near Baby Beach which is at the southern end of the island, closer to Lorenzo's home.[/quote]

so the bottle was found by the abandoned shirt?  WOW... so if this wasn't part of what happened to Natalee it was probably part of what happened to another tourist girl... you know one of the twenty times before??

[Nut44x4]

Absolutely, Hammer.  The key is that Joran is telling everyone Natalee is dead.  Whether she fell, hit head, drowned, or any other method, he is telling everyone at ISA that she is dead.  That is the key.

Dave said in chat the other night that he does't think Joran went to school that day.

[mrs. red]

Lots of amazing ... good work..

running out.. have a great day monkeys...

keep the faith!

[SunFreak2]

boggles my mind to think through play-by-play scenarios of how the night unfolded. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

once NH gave Joran confirmation that she may leave with him after bar, this would have been appropriate time for Joran to set up a spiked drink. (otherwise, why have her drink spiked if there wasn't a guarantee that NH would even leave with him after the bar closed and waste drug and money for drugged drink)

they (J2K) probably did as expected and drove around allowing time for drug to take effect on her already intoxicated body.  small talk, adolescent petting (J and NH) in back seat of car.  Deepak pisses on side of road.  NH may have realized at this point that trouble had befell her but did not have energy, logical thinking, or means to get out of situation.  

the three realized that their own homes were not the place to go. Joran would not take Nat to his own home with sleeping family, and Kalpoes surely would not go back to Nadira and their home.  somehere abandoned would serve the purpose here.  lighthouse area would work. i wonder about lighting to see what was going on.  why get it on inside car with friends present, although not out of the question.  ( i am open to ideas as to the scene of the alleged rape - where were condoms found ) while tourists may go to lighthouse area at this time of night, a native would know to go slightly beyond touristy area where they would be undetectable.  Nat, knowing her fate, probably had her blood boiling way beyond controllable, especially, if drugs in system. kicked and fought her best - assaulted by J2K while raped and eventually went into cardiac arrest, dying at the hands of J2K.  (unknown - who was in alleged white trailing car - Guido ??)

Heading back to high-rise area as needed to be seen for alibi purposes, stopped along the way, J2K + 1 guest player, sat and talked to think of plan. This could be where spotted by guy walking to work.  in car, J2K + guest - Nat either left at site of rape or in trunk.  (open to ideas as to guest or guests(plural). and 2nd car vs only K2 car) (also: was freddy-cameraman here or not. I TEND TO THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE RUIN A SECRET AND NO GUESTS OR ONLY 1 GUEST)

At this point, time to involve Daddy - Paulus. Paulus got on websites - porn, soccer, etc.. search=drugs+alcohol.  advised the boys to text each other as if home, told K bros to wash car thoroughly, not speak, and meet back in AM at Sloot house for further game plan.  Paulus comes to pick up Joran and dead NH at this point @ McD??? 4AM.

paulus and joran likely drove off into the night carrying out disposal plan. (no idea where they went) to LVR? - Sloot house? no clue.

meeting at the sloot house early around noon time. Paulus had a chance to work the phone early AM for favors and others involvement. Joran= no school this day, SK no school, DK afternoon work or no work.

the rest is history as other high powered, intelligently evil thinkers helped collaborate a corrupted and colluded plan from there and exectued as needed.

twittys did make them sweat it, tough, as their arrival was fast and furious.

just thinking out loud... any additions or disagreements to this timeline of events.

that was Monday night when Paulus or whomever searched the drugs & ETOH

[klaasend]

Date of the quarry search?  Anyone? Please.

From RWV:

Breaking Aruba
Just had a communication from Aruba - search dogs have gotten a "hit" in quarry near the Van der Sloot house, dive team being rounded up.

As posted yesterday, today's grids covered areas more accessible for the boy(s) working on a tight timeline.

I'm told there will be a press conferece at 1PM. Also, dogs said to not false alarm for non-human remains. Appears find is in very deep water of quarry, quarry was once drained and a corpse suspected to have been there for approximately ten years was discovered at that time.

Correction - quarry was low as result of drought when previous remains were discoverd. It was not drained.


Monday, June 27, 2005 at 12:37 PM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink

[BUCKSHOT]

boggles my mind to think through play-by-play scenarios of how the night unfolded. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

once NH gave Joran confirmation that she may leave with him after bar, this would have been appropriate time for Joran to set up a spiked drink. (otherwise, why have her drink spiked if there wasn't a guarantee that NH would even leave with him after the bar closed and waste drug and money for drugged drink)

they (J2K) probably did as expected and drove around allowing time for drug to take effect on her already intoxicated body.  small talk, adolescent petting (J and NH) in back seat of car.  Deepak pisses on side of road.  NH may have realized at this point that trouble had befell her but did not have energy, logical thinking, or means to get out of situation.  

the three realized that their own homes were not the place to go. Joran would not take Nat to his own home with sleeping family, and Kalpoes surely would not go back to Nadira and their home.  somehere abandoned would serve the purpose here.  lighthouse area would work. i wonder about lighting to see what was going on.  why get it on inside car with friends present, although not out of the question.  ( i am open to ideas as to the scene of the alleged rape - where were condoms found ) while tourists may go to lighthouse area at this time of night, a native would know to go slightly beyond touristy area where they would be undetectable.  Nat, knowing her fate, probably had her blood boiling way beyond controllable, especially, if drugs in system. kicked and fought her best - assaulted by J2K while raped and eventually went into cardiac arrest, dying at the hands of J2K.  (unknown - who was in alleged white trailing car - Guido ??)

Heading back to high-rise area as needed to be seen for alibi purposes, stopped along the way, J2K + 1 guest player, sat and talked to think of plan. This could be where spotted by guy walking to work.  in car, J2K + guest - Nat either left at site of rape or in trunk.  (open to ideas as to guest or guests(plural). and 2nd car vs only K2 car) (also: was freddy-cameraman here or not. I TEND TO THINK TOO MANY PEOPLE RUIN A SECRET AND NO GUESTS OR ONLY 1 GUEST)

At this point, time to involve Daddy - Paulus. Paulus got on websites - porn, soccer, etc.. search=drugs+alcohol.  advised the boys to text each other as if home, told K bros to wash car thoroughly, not speak, and meet back in AM at Sloot house for further game plan.  Paulus comes to pick up Joran and dead NH at this point @ McD??? 4AM.

paulus and joran likely drove off into the night carrying out disposal plan. (no idea where they went) to LVR? - Sloot house? no clue.

meeting at the sloot house early around noon time. Paulus had a chance to work the phone early AM for favors and others involvement. Joran= no school this day, SK no school, DK afternoon work or no work.

the rest is history as other high powered, intelligently evil thinkers helped collaborate a corrupted and colluded plan from there and exectued as needed.

twittys did make them sweat it, tough, as their arrival was fast and furious.

just thinking out loud... any additions or disagreements to this timeline of events.

that was Monday night when Paulus or whomever searched the drugs & ETOH

i do think paulus was browsing e net and not kids. too young to spring this type of info on - waould take an adults wisdom. valentin would have been told a day or two later after asking - what in the hell is going on around here?

[SunFreak2]

Date of the quarry search?  Anyone? Please.

Which quarry, Lala's.

Canashito, Bubali Plas 7 Lighthouse all searched on 6/10

The Moko dump quarry was 6/24 the night after the St John's festival accordng to Simian.

[snoopy]

Good Morning Everyone!!  

GEL  Keeping your brother in my prayers.