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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007  (Read 116797 times)
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mrs. red
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« Reply #100 on: July 25, 2007, 08:51:07 PM »

Ok I never make much sense.. but I am really struggling tonight...  Rolling Eyes

did that last post make any sense to any one else?? Embarassed
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To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
Author: Anatole
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« Reply #101 on: July 25, 2007, 08:54:15 PM »

After being drugged in CnC's by Joran buying her a drink from that special bottle, Natalee had little clue within a few minutes as to what was really happening.  I tend to think as AZ does that she was planning to return with her friends until the "grab" happened.  She was targeted and they knew just what to do and how to go about making it happen.  She thought she was getting in a taxi and that Joran was going with her back to the hotel.  He had told others he was a tourist as well.  I don't think that is such a far fetched idea as the one I had last night about GVC.
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greeneyedlady
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« Reply #102 on: July 25, 2007, 08:54:57 PM »

Quote from: "bleachedblack"
I am so saddened to hear from GEL that both her brother and sister were in a terrible car accident. There is a post in the prayer thread .

Here is a link to light a candle.........group is SM.

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=sm



Thank You BB-I wrote a small update in the lounge payer forum.All prayers will be appreciated.You are all so kind.
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"No man has a good enough memory to make a successful liar" Abraham Lincoln
Shell
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« Reply #103 on: July 25, 2007, 08:55:03 PM »

Quote from: "AZLady"
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Wow, I must have missed that discussion.
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*Avatar courtesy of CBB, a very talented and sweet monkey. Peaches and 2NJ, may you rest in peace. You will never be forgotten.
AZLady
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« Reply #104 on: July 25, 2007, 08:55:34 PM »

Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I think the coverup became so large that it took on a life of its own.  Eventually, it wasn't just a coverup of Natalee's death and disposal, but of the crime and corruption that is woven throughout the island, their justice system, their finances, their government, even their lifestyles.  When Paulus put the coverup in motion, he pulled in Karen Janssen, members of the ALE, the judiciary, as well as friends and family.  

Then, the tourism industry became involved because of the media attention.  They didn't want the seamy, ugly side of Aruba exposed, as it was in the media.  The drug trade, the gambling, the money laundering all become highly visible and condemned features of the Happy Island.  Their mafia ties were bandied about and the Americans saw more than just the white sand of Palm Beach and the hotels and casinos.  They saw the drugs, the poverty, the inept and corrupt government, the ties with organized crime, the lack of respect for children and women, the whole morally depraved way of life on the Happy Island.  Ugly, ugly, ugly.  

This whole thing blew up, right out of their control and onto our TV screens.  It couldn't be denied, so Aruba lied and lied and lied.
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BRING NATALEE HOME
shadow
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« Reply #105 on: July 25, 2007, 08:55:42 PM »

Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


well it's why I wonder about who else was involved in this type of activity... Dompig?  all of ALE... did they never believe the women or assume that they ended up crack houses because they had made sure of it?


IMO that was the ALE's typical response. They knew what was going, but my unfortunate gut feeling is that they never expected any missing girl to ever show up. Let alone their family to arrive within hours. You can read into that what you want, but I believe there was something BIG and very sinister going on. JMHO
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There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
Rob
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« Reply #106 on: July 25, 2007, 08:57:05 PM »

Quote from: "mrs. red"

Rob... did your friend know who the other bondia's were?  I would love to know that for a fact...


he didn't even know any of this was going on. He was in the dark about all the online stuff.
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oldfart
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« Reply #107 on: July 25, 2007, 08:58:12 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "oldfart"
Peeking back in
Semi  O/T

I tried search for BT*  to find any SockMonkey updates and came up with nothing Shocked   then Tried Oldf* and got hits..  Confused
Just thought I would pass it along

 Embarassed   Hi gang..
PS.. I remembered the IMG tags this time  Wink


Oldfart - they are posted in the Monkey Lounge

klaasend
found them and the Language translations in the LCD  but found it od that search did not have any hits (... behind the curtain updates ?)
BB
Thank you posting the link to the candles
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It is NOT over !!! If you believe good prevails and that the truth comes forward then justice will be handed out.  I want answers!
mrs. red
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« Reply #108 on: July 25, 2007, 09:00:35 PM »

thx rob... I still think ANITA  was one of them
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To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
Author: Anatole
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« Reply #109 on: July 25, 2007, 09:00:37 PM »

Aruba did not fare well under the hot lights of the media.  They sent Ruben Trappenburg and Arlene to tell us about the good intentions of the authorities.  We didn't buy it.  They dissembled and lied and tried it again.  The more they covered up, the more the coverup had to be maintained.  It grew and grew.  When Dompig said one thing, then someone else denied and corrected him.  When a confession was made, they announced it and then it was denied.  It went all the way to Oduber and Rudy Croes--no one knew what they other was doing and they all ran around like keystone cops.
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BRING NATALEE HOME
Anna
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« Reply #110 on: July 25, 2007, 09:00:37 PM »

Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Wow, I must have missed that discussion.


Was this ever confirmed for a fact?  I thought Paulus was in trouble for just saying 4 a.m. then changing it to 11 p.m.  I know there is a rumor that someone from MB saw Paulus at McD at 3-4 a.m. but I have never seen any actual statement about that.  Did this really happen or did Paulus just say it?

.
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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
klaasend
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« Reply #111 on: July 25, 2007, 09:00:57 PM »

Oldfart -  you of all people should know that you need more than "BT", more than 2 letters for a search.  If you had typed in BT* you would have found them.  Wink
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shadow
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« Reply #112 on: July 25, 2007, 09:01:17 PM »

Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I think the coverup became so large that it took on a life of its own.  Eventually, it wasn't just a coverup of Natalee's death and disposal, but of the crime and corruption that is woven throughout the island, their justice system, their finances, their government, even their lifestyles.  When Paulus put the coverup in motion, he pulled in Karen Janssen, members of the ALE, the judiciary, as well as friends and family.  

Then, the tourism industry became involved because of the media attention.  They didn't want the seamy, ugly side of Aruba exposed, as it was in the media.  The drug trade, the gambling, the money laundering all become highly visible and condemned features of the Happy Island.  Their mafia ties were bandied about and the Americans saw more than just the white sand of Palm Beach and the hotels and casinos.  They saw the drugs, the poverty, the inept and corrupt government, the ties with organized crime, the lack of respect for children and women, the whole morally depraved way of life on the Happy Island.  Ugly, ugly, ugly.  

This whole thing blew up, right out of their control and onto our TV screens.  It couldn't be denied, so Aruba lied and lied and lied.


Can't disagree. but was the coverup regarding just Joran or other people and things going on that the incident coul have brought into the light? Just thinking out loud again. All of your points are very astute and on the money IMO.
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There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
Rob
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« Reply #113 on: July 25, 2007, 09:01:58 PM »

Quote from: "mrs. red"
thx rob... I still think ANITA  was one of them


totally possible.. all someone needs is the log in and password and if 5 people had it... well, she could too.
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klaasend
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« Reply #114 on: July 25, 2007, 09:02:09 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Wow, I must have missed that discussion.


Was this ever confirmed for a fact?  I thought Paulus was in trouble for just saying 4 a.m. then changing it to 11 p.m.  I know there is a rumor that someone from MB saw Paulus at McD at 3-4 a.m. but I have never seen any actual statement about that.  Did this really happen or did Paulus just say it?

.


Anna - I believe it is fact.  It's information that KJ was holding back.  There is a front page post on it..I'll go find it for you.
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AZLady
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« Reply #115 on: July 25, 2007, 09:02:32 PM »

Anna, this came out when the Aruban Judge denied Paulus' bid for compensation.  Klaas probably has the original document.  I could find it, but it would take me a while.
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Rob
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« Reply #116 on: July 25, 2007, 09:04:53 PM »

I would like to know what time the last phone call Paulus made that morning. To me that solves a lot of the case.
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SunFreak2
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« Reply #117 on: July 25, 2007, 09:05:14 PM »

Hello Monkeys!

I think I will read back a bit.
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shadow
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« Reply #118 on: July 25, 2007, 09:05:25 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Shell, we have learned that Paulus did pick up Joran and Natalee at 4 AM at McDonalds.  That was revealed by the Aruban Justice System and the reason why they denied him compensation because they determined he did have contact with Natalee at 4 AM and held some responsibility for his own arrest due to his complicity.


Wow, I must have missed that discussion.


Was this ever confirmed for a fact?  I thought Paulus was in trouble for just saying 4 a.m. then changing it to 11 p.m.  I know there is a rumor that someone from MB saw Paulus at McD at 3-4 a.m. but I have never seen any actual statement about that.  Did this really happen or did Paulus just say it?

.


Anna - I believe it is fact.  It's information that KJ was holding back.  There is a front page post on it..I'll go find it for you.


Thanks Klass! I also remembered that but didn't know if it was rumor or fact. Question: Are the FP posts archived and in a place to read or will they be? TIA
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There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
Easywriter
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« Reply #119 on: July 25, 2007, 09:06:30 PM »

I'm stealing this from a comment made on In Cold Blog, because I found it to be interesting.

"The sad fact is, Natalee's story is far from unique in Aruba and other "island paradises.” As an area director at the Doe Network, I cover the Bahamas, Aruba, and the Caribbean. I have many cases of the missing and unidentified currently awaiting validation by law enforcement, medical examiners, and coroner's court officials. Several of these are from Aruba. Once validated, they will be entered in Doe Network’s extensive databases."

Can that be confirmed?  I know about some of the questionable disappearances in Aruba over the past decade, but this statement comes across a little differently.
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