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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007  (Read 117223 times)
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klaasend
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« Reply #240 on: July 25, 2007, 10:37:50 PM »

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ala_gunslinger
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« Reply #241 on: July 25, 2007, 10:38:23 PM »

Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.


Can we at least get a huge 'DUH!' on this one????


ala_gunslinger,

i appreciate your sarcasm here - but not everyone is convinced that this is the crime scene (100%). Some think it may be a distraction to divert away from the real scene, which may in fact be the VDS residence.


 I suppose that depends on 'which' crime scene you are talking about....
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Anna
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« Reply #242 on: July 25, 2007, 10:38:53 PM »

But they were painting the rocks in broad daylight with people around.  Not really like anything they did not want seen.  I have to agree it is either a diversion or they were planning to frame the SGuards with it in some way.  Maybe with things taken from their homes when they were arrested.

Then they had alibis so had to go back to the drawing board.

JMO.

.
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BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #243 on: July 25, 2007, 10:40:01 PM »

mrs red - thanks for the clarification.  i knew about drink spiking, $20, etc.. i think i answered my own question after posting. the back of CnC was to mean behind the bar.(as opposed to outside in the parking lot)
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bleachedblack
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« Reply #244 on: July 25, 2007, 10:40:02 PM »

Buckshot wrote;
Quote

Is THE POISONED WINE OF BACCHUS a metaphor of some sort? I have never heard or seen anything regarding wine.


I think it is a reference to the tainted/drugged drink Natalee was given just prior to leaving C+C's.
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ala_gunslinger
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« Reply #245 on: July 25, 2007, 10:40:42 PM »

Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Edited to say . . . there may have been something on those rocks, but I don't feel it had anything to do with Natalee. It was too public . . . perhaps staged. Just thinking out loud.


az_gunslinger: others feel different. WHO KNOWS??


Then again, you are correct.
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klaasend
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« Reply #246 on: July 25, 2007, 10:40:52 PM »

I believe the "rock area" is to the left of the photo outside the view.

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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #247 on: July 25, 2007, 10:41:48 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.


Thanks Anna...remember I did not do that.  It was Anna!  Oh my, does that mean she just tangoed with me?  Shocked
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BUCKSHOT
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« Reply #248 on: July 25, 2007, 10:41:58 PM »

Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Buckshot wrote;
Quote

Is THE POISONED WINE OF BACCHUS a metaphor of some sort? I have never heard or seen anything regarding wine.


I think it is a reference to the tainted/drugged drink Natalee was given just prior to leaving C+C's.


funny how BACCHUS was used.
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shadow
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« Reply #249 on: July 25, 2007, 10:43:12 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Julia Renfro was telling Beth and Jug that Natalee's body was at the courthouse.


Has there ever been any info from Aruba suggesting that there was other police or recovery/discovery activity on the island at that time??

Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?
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ala_gunslinger
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« Reply #250 on: July 25, 2007, 10:44:29 PM »

Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Julia Renfro was telling Beth and Jug that Natalee's body was at the courthouse.


Has there ever been any info from Aruba suggesting that there was other police or recovery/discovery activity on the island at that time??

Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


 I am afraid so.
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ala_gunslinger
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« Reply #251 on: July 25, 2007, 10:45:32 PM »

Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Julia Renfro was telling Beth and Jug that Natalee's body was at the courthouse.


Has there ever been any info from Aruba suggesting that there was other police or recovery/discovery activity on the island at that time??

Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


 Not from aruba, but from Dave.
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yapperz1
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« Reply #252 on: July 25, 2007, 10:45:44 PM »

Hiya Monkeys

I think The Aruban Disinformation crew had their orders to cover this up & blame the victim. We had best get ready for round ??? from that bunch.
Renho has something to hide IMO & was planted to deter the family &/or keep them far away from the real truth.
I don't know if the relationship (so rumored) between KJ & PVDS is true but I heard it long ago. I also heard Anita had the connections to the Hague. So why wouldn't Anita's connections cover for PVDS disgretions?
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I STAND WITH THE GIRL, NATALEE HOLLOWAY

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« Reply #253 on: July 25, 2007, 10:45:44 PM »

OF - Tracy Allan is the woman who reported an experience on the beach on Aruba to the FBI. She is the one who was involved in the sketch that looks like that "Strawberry" guy. He attacked her one morning, maybe while she was jogging? But she got away ... her story is in the M&C thread; it happened before Natalee disappeared. She reported it but didn't hear a thing back until I think December 2005; that's when the FBI interviewed her and did the composit ...

The short version is in the Summary; my sig line goes there. There is a longer version BEFORE the summary. I'm probably not remembering the details well ...

* * *
I think Huntington NY must have a testing location; maybe the FBI contracts with such? I don't think there's an FBI field office there, per se. (I think I looked this up awhile back.)

Okay, back to the drawing board. I thought I spotted TWO lab exams for Haley what's-her-name, one urine, one wine - but I'll check.
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Why did they have to disappear her body?

Murder & Crime on  Aruba Summary - http://tinyurl.com/2lhukn

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« Reply #254 on: July 25, 2007, 10:45:45 PM »

Gunslinger - I agree and I really don't want to go into detail.
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Anna
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« Reply #255 on: July 25, 2007, 10:46:05 PM »

Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
Quote from: "Anna"
Who gave Natalee the poisoned wine of Bacchus?

.


Thanks Anna...remember I did not do that.  It was Anna!  Oh my, does that mean she just tangoed with me?  Shocked


I have been known to tango, Lala's.  This has gone on for so long, I don't think there is a position I have not held at one time or another.

Yes, odd they used the name of the member of the House of Representatives but I think that was just a coincidence.  Yes, I know some people don't believe there are such things but I think this was just a way of describing giving her a drink.

I think Natalee was drugged to some degree before leaving C&C.  More could have been added later, we don't know.

.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
San
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« Reply #256 on: July 25, 2007, 10:46:47 PM »

Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "AZLady"
Quote from: "Buckeye"
Quote from: "Anna"
I recall Paulus saying that about 4am and Alberto G I think it was backing up what Beth heard and that being why Paulus was deemed worthy of jail time.

What I can't wrap my mind around is what Joran and Natalee could have been doing at 4 a.m. at McDonalds as that sure doesn't fit any kind of time line.  Maybe the deal is just picking up Joran?  Who was seen at McD?  Paulus and Joran and Natalee?  That would be huge news.  Paulus and Joran?  Paulus using ATM nearby?  Paulus and Joran and another person?

I don't believe Natalee was seen at McD's at 4 a.m. is my problem.

.


What if she was propped up between the two of them??


Likely.  She may have been barely conscious.  Remember, I think it was about 3 AM or so that Paulus (or someone) was searching the VDS computer for drug information.  Was she unconscious then and they suspected overdose?  Did Paulus take Joran and an unconscious Natalee somewhere (Lorenzo's?) and then tell someone he picked them up at McDonalds to cover his tracks?


I don't think that search was until the next night.  But, I believe the computer times had been dinged  and so I don't know what to think.

To add to your scenario:  I don't know if they drove around first or in the middle or when.  I believe the Kalpo car was in motion and the gardner saw Joran and others.  Natalee may have been originally hurt by the rocks or Arashi.  She was taken to VDS and I'm thinking the porn was put on as backdrop film during attack at house. I still believe she was hurt trying to get through the gate (after attempting to get a call off).  The talk around the pool was that night because that is where it happened. IMO

I agree Buckeye that she was hurt at the house.  I believe she in fact got that call off and this is where she ran into trouble.

I also wonder if she woke up and saw them filming her and that is when she freaked.  They mention about the porn in the car and that is a half truth.  The car was really the home and the porn film was really them filming her.  Why would Joran care about the Kalpoes putting a porn film on in the car.  This guy just drugged and kidnapped a person he is going to rape and he would worry about her seeing a porn film.  Just thinking here.
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oldfart
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« Reply #257 on: July 25, 2007, 10:47:12 PM »

Klaasend / San / anyone with an edit button

After some further review.. could you add a BIG DISCLAIMER to refer to the PDF at the front of the PDF  to TXT conversion of the disclosure items

Or just get rid of it...(for now at least)

I think I would rather have no information rather than Incorrect info

That OCR software did a pretty good job ... but I failed at proofing it. Crying or Very sad  Embarassed   Sorry
Thanks
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #258 on: July 25, 2007, 10:47:28 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
In this case....

WINE = URINE

It was a problem with the PDF converter that Oldfart used.  It is not wine, it is urine.


I am just kidding about this wine=urine thing.  Now everyone stop emailing me. LOL
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JuJu
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« Reply #259 on: July 25, 2007, 10:47:37 PM »

I could be totally off-base here but this just jumped out at me.....

In the declarations of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers there was a heated discussion amongst them, with formal denials as to whether they (Kalpoes?) went with Natalee to the house of Paul van der Sloot on the night of her disappearance.

am I reading this right?
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