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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007  (Read 118378 times)
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mrs. red
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« Reply #260 on: July 25, 2007, 10:48:16 PM »

Quote from: "msmarple"
OF - Tracy Allan is the woman who reported an experience on the beach on Aruba to the FBI. She is the one who was involved in the sketch that looks like that "Strawberry" guy. He attacked her one morning, maybe while she was jogging? But she got away ... her story is in the M&C thread; it happened before Natalee disappeared. She reported it but didn't hear a thing back until I think December 2005; that's when the FBI interviewed her and did the composit ...

The short version is in the Summary; my sig line goes there. There is a longer version BEFORE the summary. I'm probably not remembering the details well ...

* * *
I think Huntington NY must have a testing location; maybe the FBI contracts with such? I don't think there's an FBI field office there, per se. (I think I looked this up awhile back.)

Okay, back to the drawing board. I thought I spotted TWO lab exams for Haley what's-her-name, one urine, one wine - but I'll check.


I think that she is the reason they came up with the beach story...
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« Reply #261 on: July 25, 2007, 10:48:24 PM »

Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Quote from: "bleachedblack"
Quote from: "klaasend"
McDonalds is near the Holiday Inn



McDonald's Aruba NV

Kamerlingh   Onnnesstraat 8          583-3766
LG Smith Boulevard                       586-1515
Sta Cruz  54B                               585-4525


after have been there, my recollection is that McD is super close to the Holiday Inn, as in 1-2 min walk.


Hi Buckshot...so you've been to Aruba?  Great, YOU should be able to help fill in a lot of details...like the 1-2 min walk in your post!...Glad we have you as a resourse to fill in some blanks...welcome aboard.

Destiny
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« Reply #262 on: July 25, 2007, 10:49:16 PM »

Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "ala_gunslinger"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?


JMHO....

It's a diversion.


It happened at his home.

*** END JMHO ***


I have to agree with the diversion theory. Wonder what else was happening on the island while the rock painting was being filmed???


Julia Renfro was telling Beth and Jug that Natalee's body was at the courthouse.


Has there ever been any info from Aruba suggesting that there was other police or recovery/discovery activity on the island at that time??

Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


 Not from aruba, but from Dave.


I have always thought this . . .
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msmarple
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« Reply #263 on: July 25, 2007, 10:51:16 PM »

Quote from: "*******"
Did anyone see the article today in BonDia? It was very long and it was about the Winklaar guy that was arrested the same time as Lorenzo. No mention of LVR but the article was difficult to translate. I think it mentioned he had a medical condition or something?


The Winklaars (father & son) were arrested in the pot bust. The older Winklaar apparently has a variety of medical conditions including high blood pressure. The prison diet is making it worse. (The prison doctor and the family doctor have different opinions, of course.) Family also complains that he's not supposed to have salt and that request has been ignored. Basically they're trying to get HIM released until his court date. They have not attempted a similar appeal to have the son released.
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Why did they have to disappear her body?

Murder & Crime on  Aruba Summary - http://tinyurl.com/2lhukn

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« Reply #264 on: July 25, 2007, 10:51:45 PM »

Quote from: "JuJu"
I could be totally off-base here but this just jumped out at me.....

In the declarations of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers there was a heated discussion amongst them, with formal denials as to whether they (Kalpoes?) went with Natalee to the house of Paul van der Sloot on the night of her disappearance.

am I reading this right?


That is correct. Also got very heated when Joran said he killed NH and the Kalpoes help bury her from the Diario translations of Jorans confession.
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« Reply #265 on: July 25, 2007, 10:52:20 PM »

Quote from: "oldfart"
Klaasend / San / anyone with an edit button

After some further review.. could you add a BIG DISCLAIMER to refer to the PDF at the front of the PDF  to TXT conversion of the disclosure items

Or just get rid of it...(for now at least)

I think I would rather have no information rather than Incorrect info

That OCR software did a pretty good job ... but I failed at proofing it. Crying or Very sad  Embarassed   Sorry
Thanks


Oldfart, you really want me to delete it for now?  You can add it back when we move to the new forum if you want.  Up to you.
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« Reply #266 on: July 25, 2007, 10:52:36 PM »

I have to call it a night . . . must be up early in the morning. I have very much enjoyed the discussions tonight. I hope to see all of you tomorrow. May the truth be finally revealed! Goodnight Monkeys!
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There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
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« Reply #267 on: July 25, 2007, 10:53:20 PM »

I wondered if she somehow got out of the car, was already injured, was bleeding and was trying to hide from them at the rocks............
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« Reply #268 on: July 25, 2007, 10:53:33 PM »

Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?[/quote]

the end of it all..... meaning what. VDS house to rocks.

it is hard for to imagine young men (18-25) filming such a thing. as if drugging and raping isn't hard enough to believe. Filming.. it could be true... but I have a hard time inserting this into the story. am i wrong?
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« Reply #269 on: July 25, 2007, 10:53:45 PM »

Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
If the crime scene (battery, rape) took place away from the VanderSloot residence, Paulus would have been called by the boys. If Paulus came from his house to meet up with J2K, most likely he would have sent K2 away and handled the disposal with Joran only.  Natalee's body would have most likely been transferred from one vehicle to another. This is simply a cloudy area of the timeline.  Speculation could have any vehicle there: (a) Paulus' vehicle, (b) a real close friend's vehicle.  Would Paulus have known to keep forensic evidence out of one of his own vehicles? At that particular moment, however, he could never in his wildest dreams imagined that the ALE would allow forensics to disappear from his vehicle.

I think at some point that Paulus sent the Kalpoe's away and dealt with this with Joran only.  Paulus and Joran had a very important job to do.

Part of me can see that maybe a small (friends only) pool party / Joran's apartment party took place after CnC.  However, if Paulus was out and about between 3-7AM, that eliminates a pool party scenario for me somewhat.  Doublethink: Maybe Paulus wants people to think he was out and about (@McD) to steer theories away from the safe haven, which could turn out to be his own home.

Any ideas....

This is what they have been doing since day one.  Keeping the crime away from the house.  

I agree about Paulus sending the Kalpoes away.  No what would he have allowed them to know what he was going to do.
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« Reply #270 on: July 25, 2007, 10:55:19 PM »

Quote from: "JuJu"
I could be totally off-base here but this just jumped out at me.....

In the declarations of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers there was a heated discussion amongst them, with formal denials as to whether they (Kalpoes?) went with Natalee to the house of Paul van der Sloot on the night of her disappearance.

am I reading this right?


JuJu
JMO  but it depends on which story / PV's you are looking / comparing.
That I knew... Some one took Joarn home but they could not agree if it was Dxxxxx or Sxxxxx
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« Reply #271 on: July 25, 2007, 10:56:54 PM »

Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


the end of it all..... meaning what. VDS house to rocks.

it is hard for to imagine young men (18-25) filming such a thing. as if drugging and raping isn't hard enough to believe. Filming.. it could be true... but I have a hard time inserting this into the story. am i wrong?[/quote]

yes you are, IMO... Remember we already have Freddy being questioned for filming the other girls on the island.  Heck that even happens constantly here in the US... kids will film/photograph anything.. like the fights, etc...
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msmarple
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« Reply #272 on: July 25, 2007, 10:57:02 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

Man Drowns in Aruba and Washes Ashore Ö Why Didnít Natalee Holloway, if she Drown?

http://tinyurl.com/yt6g33


Oh dear. For one thing, he slept in boats (homeless).

I haven't seen a cause of death yet. Or anything about which boat he might have been sleeping in that night. Or whether where he slept had anything to do with it.

He probably d-r-o-w-n-e-d, and it is unlikely that foul play will be suspected.

(But you KNOW I'm watching for it.  Wink  )
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Why did they have to disappear her body?

Murder & Crime on  Aruba Summary - http://tinyurl.com/2lhukn

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oldfart
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« Reply #273 on: July 25, 2007, 10:57:03 PM »

Embarassed Last That I knew  Embarassed
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« Reply #274 on: July 25, 2007, 10:58:56 PM »

Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Perhaps the rocks were not the actually location of the original assault but the end of it all . . . any thoughts?


the end of it all..... meaning what. VDS house to rocks.

it is hard for to imagine young men (18-25) filming such a thing. as if drugging and raping isn't hard enough to believe. Filming.. it could be true... but I have a hard time inserting this into the story. am i wrong?[/quote]

Yes, I am sorry to say you are wrong. There are numerous amateur online porn sites ie Bangbus.com
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« Reply #275 on: July 25, 2007, 10:59:08 PM »

Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
If the crime scene (battery, rape) took place away from the VanderSloot residence, Paulus would have been called by the boys. If Paulus came from his house to meet up with J2K, most likely he would have sent K2 away and handled the disposal with Joran only.  Natalee's body would have most likely been transferred from one vehicle to another. This is simply a cloudy area of the timeline.  Speculation could have any vehicle there: (a) Paulus' vehicle, (b) a real close friend's vehicle.  Would Paulus have known to keep forensic evidence out of one of his own vehicles? At that particular moment, however, he could never in his wildest dreams imagined that the ALE would allow forensics to disappear from his vehicle.

I think at some point that Paulus sent the Kalpoe's away and dealt with this with Joran only.  Paulus and Joran had a very important job to do.

Part of me can see that maybe a small (friends only) pool party / Joran's apartment party took place after CnC.  However, if Paulus was out and about between 3-7AM, that eliminates a pool party scenario for me somewhat.  Doublethink: Maybe Paulus wants people to think he was out and about (@McD) to steer theories away from the safe haven, which could turn out to be his own home.

Any ideas....

This is what they have been doing since day one.  Keeping the crime away from the house.  

I agree about Paulus sending the Kalpoes away.  No what would he have allowed them to know what he was going to do.




Kalpoe's, I agree, were definitely sent away. Nadira was too worried about not messing up what time her two sons arrived back at their home. Additionally, DK was on the internet later in the evening - most, if not all, agree with this. What time was he logged in and chatting with his friend from USA?
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« Reply #276 on: July 25, 2007, 10:59:44 PM »

Quote from: "oldfart"
Quote from: "JuJu"
I could be totally off-base here but this just jumped out at me.....

In the declarations of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers there was a heated discussion amongst them, with formal denials as to whether they (Kalpoes?) went with Natalee to the house of Paul van der Sloot on the night of her disappearance.

am I reading this right?


JuJu
JMO  but it depends on which story / PV's you are looking / comparing.
That I knew... Some one took Joarn home but they could not agree if it was Dxxxxx or Sxxxxx


it just said to me that Nat did go to the VDS house, and the argument was about whether or not the K's went there too.....
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« Reply #277 on: July 25, 2007, 10:59:53 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "BUCKSHOT"
Do you think the rape / murder scene took place at the rocks?
I know all about the Chicago videos, painting of the rocks, etc.. - Is that the only explanation for painting these rocks (By the way - I do not buy, for one second, they were painted to be noticed by car drivers)?

This would be a public place where anyone could gather evidence so why not have a crew eliminate the forensics at the location.

Those stills of someone watching the painters sure does match up with Paulus - he must have an unknown twin on the island?

I believe the rocks is a crime scene.  Whether Natalee was raped there or she tried to get away and they caught up with her there I don't know.  I do believe there was in the least blood on those rocks.

Could the final blow have been at the rocks (Guido = Heavy Battery).  They knew she was still alive and they wanted to make sure she was dead after taking her from the VDS home.
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« Reply #278 on: July 25, 2007, 11:02:28 PM »

O/T - Not much happening in SF today, but I just put a few pics in the Lounge. Hoping for a better day tomorrow.
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« Reply #279 on: July 25, 2007, 11:02:39 PM »

We have too many crime scenes and suspects.  This is not something Paulus would have allowed to be known by a large number of people I don't think.

.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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