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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #665 7/25 - 7/26/2007  (Read 118934 times)
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Shell
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« Reply #580 on: July 26, 2007, 04:07:36 PM »

Quote from: "Peaches"
Lest you all worry that I am truly a terminal case, let me tell you why I expect a miracle.  A couple Sunday mornings ago, I was channel surfing and landed on Joel O’Steen.  I only caught the last couple minutes of his show but my ears perked up when he said “don’t believe the ‘never’.”  He told a story about earlier in his career when he was trying to raise funds for a building.  He heard a lot of “never” but chose not to believe the “never” and went forward, living with gratitude and hope.  

We should live with an attitude of gratitude, hope and expectancy.  It’s better to live with hope and expectancy than with despair and discouragement.  Therefore, we should stay hopeful, make preparations and thank God in expectation.  Keep the vision in front of you and don’t settle.  Some people are content to wait for God to answer their prayers rather than thanking God that the answer is on the way.  One needs to go from waiting (passive) to expecting (active).  

If I believe that God is always with me, I have to believe He knows everything about me and my cancer.  He is the only one who knows the number of my days.  He knows the prayers on the hearts on my family, friends, co-workers and my beloved SM family.  I have to trust that His answer is coming… in His time, not mine.  I have to wait expectantly.  

“For I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future” – Jeremiah 29:11.

Seems like a simple concept.  Live expectantly.  Expect a miracle.  Thank God the answer is on the way.        

(I put this in the RAH RAH thread in the Lounge as well.)

When I first said I expect a miracle, it slipped by me that some might worry I was lining up for a dirtnap....soon.  NOT!  I may not always feel terrific but I don't look "sick".  If I didn't tell ya I have cancer, you'd never know.  I've lost about 40 lbs. over the last year and a half that I didn't need anyway and much of that was due to surgery and chemo.  I don't recommend chemo as a dieting strategy.  (It's easier to just eat less and move more.)  

So what if I have to have some chemo?  One round down and five to go.  Already went 18 rounds.  What's another six?  What's the alternative?    

I'm still in the fight.  

Expecting my miracle.  

Back to working and lurking.  Smoochies to all.

I am way behind in this thread, but wanted to say I am going to remember this concept forever. Serendepity. Thanks for sharing this Peaches
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*Avatar courtesy of CBB, a very talented and sweet monkey. Peaches and 2NJ, may you rest in peace. You will never be forgotten.
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« Reply #581 on: July 26, 2007, 04:09:35 PM »

Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?
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NM
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« Reply #582 on: July 26, 2007, 04:10:56 PM »

Quote from: "MuffyBee"
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
Quote from: "Lala'sMom"
And who told us it was delivering dog food?


I have no idea Lalas..  LMAO  Just recall hearing it was dogfood?


I thought is was avds, but I don't know how that info got to us, ex msm, poster.

Hi beautiful Monkeys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ang, hope you and your husband are feeling better soon.


Hi NM.  It is interesting to step back and look at where rumors, information, disinformation and such really came from.  How much do we REALLY know for sure?  Or think we know?

Hi Muffy, I hear ya.
What makes it really hard is that very early, some posters from aruba were really helping out.
Then people started picking sides and/or turned it into something about them and forgot about Natalee.

LALA'S please see the bolded below
It still pisses me off and I still do not understand why some posters posted in those quatrains(sp?) i.e. shango and later simian. I mean why?
But I am still trying to understand them and I am still using their "info" when I brainstorm on what happened and still apply their "info" when we get info such as the pv's.
I am not good at the figure out things w/ info I don't understand. Just tell me! Any language, just the facts.
urgh! Calgon take me away!!!!!!!!!
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Glenda wrote: "aruba's job was not to babysit Beth's daughter. Beth sent her daughter to swim with the sharks, she is responsible for what ever happened to Natalee." = there is no homicide in aruba, only SUICIDE.  Don't go to aruba if you value your life.
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« Reply #583 on: July 26, 2007, 04:12:44 PM »

I also thought that Joran's story at school was that Natalee drowned??? Or am I totally confused?

Seems like his story was she hit her head and drowned.

I remember it being said the furniture truck was delivering dogfood too.  IIRC, the delivery weirdly coincided with the bloody mattress being found - or within a day or 2
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« Reply #584 on: July 26, 2007, 04:16:53 PM »

Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?


Simian posted first. Shango began posting a few days later, and I believe he (or she) took a lot of cues from Simian. The first person to use the term "Cowboys" and "Babylonians" was actually AllyinMiami. Simian was the first to use "Arawaks," and Shango was the first to use "Shivas." In other instances, though, I think Simian makes a certain point and Shango embellishes it.

I tend to believe Simian was an insider trying to dispense information. Not so sure about Shango. I want to believe him, but I think Simian is the real source for info.
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shadow
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« Reply #585 on: July 26, 2007, 04:17:00 PM »

Quote from: "Kimmy53"
I also thought that Joran's story at school was that Natalee drowned??? Or am I totally confused?

Seems like his story was she hit her head and drowned.

I remember it being said the furniture truck was delivering dogfood too.  IIRC, the delivery weirdly coincided with the bloody mattress being found - or within a day or 2


I was not aware of the timing. Mattresses are definitely something someone would have delivered. Perhaps the search of the main house was denied not only because of other evidence that could be found, but a missing mattress is pretty obvious and you'd think it would send up a red flag.
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There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
shadow
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« Reply #586 on: July 26, 2007, 04:18:41 PM »

Quote from: "BlueKYGirl"
Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?


Simian posted first. Shango began posting a few days later, and I believe he (or she) took a lot of cues from Simian. The first person to use the term "Cowboys" and "Babylonians" was actually AllyinMiami. Simian was the first to use "Arawaks," and Shango was the first to use "Shivas." In other instances, though, I think Simian makes a certain point and Shango embellishes it.

I tend to believe Simian was an insider trying to dispense information. Not so sure about Shango. I want to believe him, but I think Simian is the real source for info.


Thanks! I have to agree with you regarding Simian being an insider.
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NM
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« Reply #587 on: July 26, 2007, 04:19:47 PM »

Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?

Shadow, so good you are back!

I believe simian posted 1st. Maybe even 1 wk earlier than Shango.
And before Shango, Simian posted in more normal language.
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Glenda wrote: "aruba's job was not to babysit Beth's daughter. Beth sent her daughter to swim with the sharks, she is responsible for what ever happened to Natalee." = there is no homicide in aruba, only SUICIDE.  Don't go to aruba if you value your life.
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« Reply #588 on: July 26, 2007, 04:21:01 PM »

Quote from: "shadow"


Thanks! I have to agree with you regarding Simian being an insider.


You're welcome--it's all fresh in my mind because I went back and read a lot of it yesterday. If you read it in the context that Simian is an insider, I think it becomes apparent that Shango is mimicking.

This is just my opinion--I'm not one of the more experienced students of Shango/Simian, but I do try!
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« Reply #589 on: July 26, 2007, 04:21:02 PM »

Just blipping through, work is so busy this week but I didn't know if this was posted already but I guess I signed up for alerts and didn't realize it, for this Bama station. Anyway it appears a possible kidnapping was thwarted by someone following behind in their vehicle?

An apparent kidnapping in Hoover this afternoon has been thwarted by police. Early reports indicate that a witness followed the alleged kidnappers and called 911. ABC 33/40 has a crew on the scene and we will bring you more information as it becomes available.
more details as they become available


http://www.abc3340.com/

I couldn't help but think that white car on the video the night Natalee was kidnapped might have done the right thing and helped to save her, or someone in Aruba could come forward to solve this case, again the 'right thing' to do.

Whoever stopped this kidnapping deserves an award and I find it interesting it happened in AL !!
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« Reply #590 on: July 26, 2007, 04:21:44 PM »

Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?

Shadow, so good you are back!

I believe simian posted 1st. Maybe even 1 wk earlier than Shango.
And before Shango, Simian posted in more normal language.


Hi NM, thanks! It is good to be back!  Smile I agree that the language did change somewhat from the earliest posts. Nice observation.
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« Reply #591 on: July 26, 2007, 04:23:45 PM »

Quote from: "Kimmy53"
I also thought that Joran's story at school was that Natalee drowned??? Or am I totally confused?

Seems like his story was she hit her head and drowned.

I remember it being said the furniture truck was delivering dogfood too.  IIRC, the delivery weirdly coincided with the bloody mattress being found - or within a day or 2

Hi Kimmy,
I think posters, possibly msm said the head master said that jurin said that Nat hit her head while swimming and drowned.  

Also I think posters, possibly msm said kids in school said jurin was bragging about having sex with Nat what ever day he was at school.
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Glenda wrote: "aruba's job was not to babysit Beth's daughter. Beth sent her daughter to swim with the sharks, she is responsible for what ever happened to Natalee." = there is no homicide in aruba, only SUICIDE.  Don't go to aruba if you value your life.
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« Reply #592 on: July 26, 2007, 04:24:41 PM »

Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?

Shadow, so good you are back!

I believe simian posted 1st. Maybe even 1 wk earlier than Shango.
And before Shango, Simian posted in more normal language.


FWIW - Shango began posting around the time the heat was being turned up on Paulus.
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« Reply #593 on: July 26, 2007, 04:27:36 PM »

Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "shadow"
Good eveninng Monkeys!

Good discussions going on tonight.
AZLady: I agree with so much of what you said in your last post. But I still have a burning question . . . were those PIMPS worthy of such a huge cover-up? You mentioned video of the assault and I agree, but I beleive if this is the case, there is an entire network that is being protected. IMO the videos being made were not for the PIMPs enjoyment only but more of an enterprise.  Just thinking out loud. Any thoughts?


I keep wondering what favors were called in to protect the son of the judge. I would like to know things that happened before Paulus ever got to Aruba, his history, the cases he had influence over. I personally think that would open a huge can of worms and explain why all this for a few punks.

Hi Monkeys
I agree Shell,this is no coverup just for the Kalpoe's....it's for Joran and it's for Paulus.If only the Kalpoe's were involved,this would have been solved within the first few days of Natalee disappearing.
No,it's because of Joran,his father is protecting him and we all know he will do anything to protect his son even if it means bringing down the whole once happy island of aruba.Paulus is protected by his knowledge.I also would love to see all of the cases he has worked on in the past.
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« Reply #594 on: July 26, 2007, 04:29:34 PM »

Quote from: "nonesuche"
Just blipping through, work is so busy this week but I didn't know if this was posted already but I guess I signed up for alerts and didn't realize it, for this Bama station. Anyway it appears a possible kidnapping was thwarted by someone following behind in their vehicle?

An apparent kidnapping in Hoover this afternoon has been thwarted by police. Early reports indicate that a witness followed the alleged kidnappers and called 911. ABC 33/40 has a crew on the scene and we will bring you more information as it becomes available.
more details as they become available


http://www.abc3340.com/

I couldn't help but think that white car on the video the night Natalee was kidnapped might have done the right thing and helped to save her, or someone in Aruba could come forward to solve this case, again the 'right thing' to do.

Whoever stopped this kidnapping deserves an award and I find it interesting it happened in AL !!


WoW! Don't mess with Alabama! Smile
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There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
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« Reply #595 on: July 26, 2007, 04:31:09 PM »

Quote from: "truthseeker2"
Quote from: "NM"
Quote from: "shadow"
Hi Monkeys! Saw the S/S discussion and wanted to jump in. The thing I find strange about Shango posting from a FL IP is that he seemed to use a lot of the same references, like Babylonians, Cowboys, etc . . . I know they were different people, but I wouldn't imagine someone in FL speaking the way Shango did, and I'm not refering to the riddle style, but the island talk so to speak. I hope I'm making sense. Seems to me it was an Aruban living in FL or someone in FL who has a lot of first hand knowledge of Aruba. Who posted first, Shango or Simian?

Shadow, so good you are back!

I believe simian posted 1st. Maybe even 1 wk earlier than Shango.
And before Shango, Simian posted in more normal language.


FWIW - Shango began posting around the time the heat was being turned up on Paulus.


Very interesting. Thanks truthseeker!
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There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
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« Reply #596 on: July 26, 2007, 04:32:20 PM »

JVDS Is a Serial Rapist

I wanted to put this post from Granny Toad, posted today 7/26/07, along side an older post of mine.  

Not for comparison, but instead for their additive and cumulative effect.  The picture painted by the information in both posts illuminates the type of individual joran van der sloot is:

_____________________________________________

GRANNYTOAD 7/26/07

Posted this morning by GrannyToad at BFN:

About the reported event of Joran having followed and cornered an American girl enroute to the restroom at C&C who'd rebuffed him (from dancing? Why - Joran says he doesn't dance), threatened her with a knife, and told her threateningly that his father is a judge - was that in April or March 2005?

I've forgotten the timeframe other than placing it shortly prior Natalee going to Aruba, and being part of established PATTERNS like dumping (likely drugged, tourist?) girls on the beach when he's done with them. I'd wondered then and still now if there was a PATTERN about finding dumped tourist girls on the beach that Charles Croes recognized being a reason to head toward the lighthouse looking for that car and Joran. I don't think that strategy was a whim on Croes' part.

Although there was no implied threat, there was also the report of a mom with two daughters at C&C of having seen Joran enter through a side door, chat up her daughters, and with a nod to the bartender the 17 year old ordered them each shots of 151. This event was I believe, April 2005, Spring Break.

Earlier 2005, maybe March, a tourist had taken offense at Joran's behavior with his wife at some fast food or donut place. This is the event in which a tourist was thrown up against the plate glass window.

PATTERNS

Joran out of control; violence. Makes it easier to consider the "aluminum baseball bat" report and I would still like to have the general identity of the informant verified.

(*I still have the date of 6Jun2005 in general recall as when the cement pool apron was poured at the vdSloot compound. I recall blog posts at RWV with blacklab (latenight) & tsunder if those cues mean anything to readers)

"Supercop" Jan vdStraaten reportedly offered Joran confinement in a mental institution for a reason. Joran's parents may still be in denial.


HAMMER 4/23/07

The Calendar of Depravity

Yes, Tamikosmom. The main perps were "suspected" of involvement in the episode which served as reason to arrest Freddie and Jamie.

Among the interesting things attached to this very specific episode: if memory serves, we'll find that the assault and filming of the unconscious 16 yr old girl occurred in APRIL, 2005. On average, about a month or so before the abduction of Natalee, which occurred on May 29 & 30, 2005. (As an aside, why would the event with Natalee not be filmed?)

Strung together with the events of Bailey Ann, which occurred during MARCH, 2005 and the depicted topless Loco Stefy whose picture was delivered w/ the date taken as MARCH 10, 2005.

An additional calendar notation is worth pondering: jvds supposedly broke up w/ his very young girl friend, at the urging of the girl's parents. This also occurred during MARCH, 2005.

For fun, we could lay these known events against a timeline, and imo it represents a ratcheting up of deviance, and most likely violence. The pimps were spiraling in an increasingly out of control manner. Why would the 16 yr old be "unconscious" -- the introduction of a drugging agent into the boys' repertoire in evidence? I would bet too there are a number of additional unreported incidents which occurred in late April and early May of 2005, incidents which have not been reported w/ firm dates. For example: the 3 girls who were willing to testify against jvds as part of JQ Kelly's affadavits: when were their "alleged" assaults to have occurred.

These kids were off the rails and were exhibiting increasingly dangerous behaviors -- which were criminal.

_________________________________________________

What is the picture you see of joran van der sloot?

What does he look like to you?

.
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shadow
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« Reply #597 on: July 26, 2007, 04:33:45 PM »

Quote from: "the big hammer"
JVDS Is a Serial Rapist

I wanted to put this post from Granny Toad, posted today 7/26/07, along side an older post of mine.  

Not for comparison, but instead for their additive and cumulative effect.  The picture painted by the information in both posts illuminates the type of individual joran van der sloot is:

_____________________________________________

GRANNYTOAD 7/26/07

Posted this morning by GrannyToad at BFN:

About the reported event of Joran having followed and cornered an American girl enroute to the restroom at C&C who'd rebuffed him (from dancing? Why - Joran says he doesn't dance), threatened her with a knife, and told her threateningly that his father is a judge - was that in April or March 2005?

I've forgotten the timeframe other than placing it shortly prior Natalee going to Aruba, and being part of established PATTERNS like dumping (likely drugged, tourist?) girls on the beach when he's done with them. I'd wondered then and still now if there was a PATTERN about finding dumped tourist girls on the beach that Charles Croes recognized being a reason to head toward the lighthouse looking for that car and Joran. I don't think that strategy was a whim on Croes' part.

Although there was no implied threat, there was also the report of a mom with two daughters at C&C of having seen Joran enter through a side door, chat up her daughters, and with a nod to the bartender the 17 year old ordered them each shots of 151. This event was I believe, April 2005, Spring Break.

Earlier 2005, maybe March, a tourist had taken offense at Joran's behavior with his wife at some fast food or donut place. This is the event in which a tourist was thrown up against the plate glass window.

PATTERNS

Joran out of control; violence. Makes it easier to consider the "aluminum baseball bat" report and I would still like to have the general identity of the informant verified.

(*I still have the date of 6Jun2005 in general recall as when the cement pool apron was poured at the vdSloot compound. I recall blog posts at RWV with blacklab (latenight) & tsunder if those cues mean anything to readers)

"Supercop" Jan vdStraaten reportedly offered Joran confinement in a mental institution for a reason. Joran's parents may still be in denial.


HAMMER 4/23/07

The Calendar of Depravity

Yes, Tamikosmom. The main perps were "suspected" of involvement in the episode which served as reason to arrest Freddie and Jamie.

Among the interesting things attached to this very specific episode: if memory serves, we'll find that the assault and filming of the unconscious 16 yr old girl occurred in APRIL, 2005. On average, about a month or so before the abduction of Natalee, which occurred on May 29 & 30, 2005. (As an aside, why would the event with Natalee not be filmed?)

Strung together with the events of Bailey Ann, which occurred during MARCH, 2005 and the depicted topless Loco Stefy whose picture was delivered w/ the date taken as MARCH 10, 2005.

An additional calendar notation is worth pondering: jvds supposedly broke up w/ his very young girl friend, at the urging of the girl's parents. This also occurred during MARCH, 2005.

For fun, we could lay these known events against a timeline, and imo it represents a ratcheting up of deviance, and most likely violence. The pimps were spiraling in an increasingly out of control manner. Why would the 16 yr old be "unconscious" -- the introduction of a drugging agent into the boys' repertoire in evidence? I would bet too there are a number of additional unreported incidents which occurred in late April and early May of 2005, incidents which have not been reported w/ firm dates. For example: the 3 girls who were willing to testify against jvds as part of JQ Kelly's affadavits: when were their "alleged" assaults to have occurred.

These kids were off the rails and were exhibiting increasingly dangerous behaviors -- which were criminal.

_________________________________________________

What is the picture you see of joran van der sloot?

What does he look like to you?

.


well said hammer. . .
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« Reply #598 on: July 26, 2007, 04:34:50 PM »

I confess that I am not much into the S&S thing. But yesterday there was a re-post with a few sentences in French, and I think there were several others that included French. I remember being interested in that at the time - as a possible clue to identity. However, I simply could not take the time to "study" those posts.

French is not one of the "3 or 4" languages many on Aruba are likely speak - Pap, Dutch, Spanish, and English.

Folks there who came from The Netherlands might have some French - it's not uncommon in Europe (where many do speak at least a smattering of several languages).

Just thought I would throw that out as a possible avenue of research and speculation.
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Why did they have to disappear her body?

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« Reply #599 on: July 26, 2007, 04:35:22 PM »

Quote from: "tcumom"
Quote from: "Peaches"
I was afraid the other day when I said I expected a miracle that people would think I was really sick or had given up.  Simply not the case.  I'm still in the fight.  Still hoping and praying for miracles for all who need them.  And couldn't we all use a miracle?  I'm sure Beth and Dave could use a miracle right now.

Peaches ~ you are such a source of inspiration, and what admiration I have for you.  I knew you hadn't given up.....that's not your style.  Sending you prayers, love, and many hugs.  


Good Afternoon to all...Peaches,  read your post this morning and I have to tell you it brought me to tears...you are an inspiration to all of us...and I only hope I would have the courage and faith that you possess. I too am praying for your miracle.......and I do know for a fact they happen!
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Rest in Peace Caylee
Natalee, We will never forget.
Zahra, run with the Angels

PUT ON YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES AND GET OVER IT!  It's not about you or me.....It's about the Missing and the Murdered
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