Lively Case Discussion #670 7/31 - 8/01/2007

[Anna]

I think that Natalee was in serious condition or dead by 2:26AM.
That's when Joran called Deepak with an 8-minute call.

Maybe this is when she wouldn't wake up and they were in a panic?  I don't think she lived very long once she got into that car either.  This is why date rape drugs or any drug to render a human being unconscious have no business in the hands of those not professionally trained in this field.  Those idiots were just very lucky they hadn't killed somebody before doing this stunt.

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[San]

Rob,
The only problem I have with Papito planting the blood in Deepak's car is how did he make it go away when he returned the car to Deepak.  I certainly don't think ALE is morally above doing just this very thing but can't figure out how they could make it go away afterwards.

Also how could Deepak's Magic Car be at the casino with Joran and also at the Sloot compound as verified by CCroes and kid who wrote down the license plate number at the same time?

I am back to the two very similar cars theory.

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I do not believe they were ever at any casino that night.  Paulus would not have let Joran out of his sight unless he was with him and especially that word was out on the island about a missing tourists.  It would be a matter of time that they would be looking for Joran and Paulus was going to make sure he was there with him.

[Dayhiker]

Please don't forget  that the FBI was there and watching their moves.  Plus, we don't know everything.  IN fact,, I believe most of what we know may or may not be true.  There were a lot of people questioned, albeit poorly questioned,  if we go by the other P.V.'s we've read.  It's just so hard to speculate anymore based on the little direct info we do know.

I would LOVE to see the tapes that go along with the PV's - wouldn't you?  I would bet money that there is prolly alot to be learned(If the tapes were indeed intact)...  Chances are the tapes have either been lost or broken - they'll never see the light of day

Definitely. Wouldn't it be nice to see what what was asked that never made it into those cheesy limpwristed PV recaps Van der Straten, Jacobs, and the rest of those ALE scuzzballs took?

[Slogger]

Rob,
The only problem I have with Papito planting the blood in Deepak's car is how did he make it go away when he returned the car to Deepak.  I certainly don't think ALE is morally above doing just this very thing but can't figure out how they could make it go away afterwards.

Also how could Deepak's Magic Car be at the casino with Joran and also at the Sloot compound as verified by CCroes and kid who wrote down the license plate number at the same time?

I am back to the two very similar cars theory.

.

I lean toward the two very similar cars theory, too.  If Comememcia put something in one car, it could have been the chocolate and cleaning fluid.

[Anna]

San,
It could have gone just as you said or the opposite~Paulus sending Joran out to try to give the appearance of normalcy.  I do think Joran walked the route they had driven the night before looking for the cups or something they threw out the car window or went there to plant the shoes, some reason he did that walk.

[San]

I believe that the coverup took on a life of its own because Aruba failed to anticipated the power a determined mother whose voice would not be silenced ... whose voice commanded media attention in regards to the corrupt investigation which was denying her daugher justice in a attempt to protect a wannabe judge and his son.

By the time the realization set in the Beth Holloway Twitty was not about to be silenced ... it was too late to turn back the clock.  It was no longer just about those within the ALE protecting their own from implication ... it was all about those within the Dutch/Aruban administration who had knowledge or were involved in the coverup.  It was about the sons of the elite.  It was about exposure of Aruba's dirty little secrets in regards to gambling ... drugs ... money laundering ... pornography ... prostitution ...

Janet

I agree Janet.

[Dayhiker]

That post Klaas found explains Haley Segonia's drug test.

Did I get her name right?

Except WHO IS Haley?

An island girl? Is there a Haley? Im confused..

Angie - the FBI analyized a urine sample from her.  I believe she is an American and not an Aruban.  We don't know who she is and was not one of the MB kids.

Do you recall the date of Haley's statement and sample being taken?

[JuJu]

Carpe has some great new videos on his youtube site.

[Anna]

JANET,
Please read back my posts on Deepak's car as I think you are right on target.  There was no blood on the 31st for Deepak's interrrogation, ALE commenting on how clean the car was.  Next thing we know, blood all in the car? 

Certain things just do not add up in this at all and are glaring in their inconsistency.  This is one of them along with Deepak's car being both at the Sloot compound and at the casino the night Beth arrived.

Deepak's Magic Car for sure!

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[JustMeT]

Rob,
The only problem I have with Papito planting the blood in Deepak's car is how did he make it go away when he returned the car to Deepak.  I certainly don't think ALE is morally above doing just this very thing but can't figure out how they could make it go away afterwards.

Also how could Deepak's Magic Car be at the casino with Joran and also at the Sloot compound as verified by CCroes and kid who wrote down the license plate number at the same time?

I am back to the two very similar cars theory.

.

I lean toward the two very similar cars theory, too.  If Comememcia put something in one car, it could have been the chocolate and cleaning fluid.

Had to be.

[Anna]

I believe that the coverup took on a life of its own because Aruba failed to anticipated the power a determined mother whose voice would not be silenced ... whose voice commanded media attention in regards to the corrupt investigation which was denying her daugher justice in a attempt to protect a wannabe judge and his son.

By the time the realization set in the Beth Holloway Twitty was not about to be silenced ... it was too late to turn back the clock.  It was no longer just about those within the ALE protecting their own from implication ... it was all about those within the Dutch/Aruban administration who had knowledge or were involved in the coverup.  It was about the sons of the elite.  It was about exposure of Aruba's dirty little secrets in regards to gambling ... drugs ... money laundering ... pornography ... prostitution ...

Janet

 

All that and more.  Remember the article in Diario about the elders having sex at hotels with underaged girls?  Or just underaged children?

I think if the truth came out about this happening to Natalee, the drugged and raped routine they had down to a fine art, it might also come out that not just these PIMPS had been doing this and for some time.

I read about a guy putting roofies into those little cardboard containers of orange juice with a hypodermic syringe for example.

They couldn't expose Joran and crew without the same light shining on many of that island and not just kids who had been doing this for some time.

Whatever happened about Jossy's article anyway?  Not one thing that I have seen.  Now how can that be?

.

[JustMeT]

I think it is very strange that in the witness statement of Osman Farouk Osman, owner of Automotive Enterprises given August 6th, 2005 did not even mention the word blood.

That is because Edwin Comemencia planted the blood after the car was confiscated.

Hi Rob. You mean in the Kalpoe car?

Hi Just MeT
Welcome to the cage.

Yes the Kalpoe car. No way are they driving around for 10 days with blood in their car. It was after Comemencia took possession that the blood appears.

If this is true then they must have planted the blood in the wrong car.
Kinda funny if you think about it.

[Slogger]

2+ Car Theory:

If we agree this was a planned activity (there are many indications that it was planned) then why would they use a huge neon sign for the pickup?  Deepak's car might as well have had a flashing neon sign on the top.

[San]

San,
It could have gone just as you said or the opposite~Paulus sending Joran out to try to give the appearance of normalcy.  I do think Joran walked the route they had driven the night before looking for the cups or something they threw out the car window or went there to plant the shoes, some reason he did that walk.

We are not dealing with a person who can act normal.  If Joran was in fact with someone it would have been with someone of authority.  He would have never left him with Deepak alone.  Especially after what happened in his home.

[SunFreak2]

any chance FEB is one of the others drugged?

that chick made some bizarre statements.

Dave said it wasn't one of the females on the trip that was drugged.What bizarre statements did FEB make?

Isn't that the episode Joran talked about.  I think it was Karen.

VIANA, Fernando  (DOB 9-03-87) – Joran in his June 24th statement says –“ I have to say that I am not sure any more if "Freddy ZEDAN" or "Fernando VIANA" was in the appartment with us.”  His father is Dr. Carlos Viana.

[klaasend]

That post Klaas found explains Haley Segonia's drug test.

Did I get her name right?

Except WHO IS Haley?

An island girl? Is there a Haley? Im confused..

Angie - the FBI analyized a urine sample from her.  I believe she is an American and not an Aruban.  We don't know who she is and was not one of the MB kids.

Do you recall the date of Haley's statement and sample being taken?

[KarmaRoundUp]

ARUBA - The Tragic Untold Story of Natalee Holloway and Corruption in Paradise

Dave Holloway

Page 9

In fact, he (Jacobs) was so confident that she was just partying it up or on drugs that he told us this particular bar would be the best place to find her. However, he did warn us to watch our drinks very carefully, adding that sometimes people put drugs into them.

That's what I'm talking about...how can you have a head of narcotics saying this to a victim's family?Dennis Jacobs knows they drug drinks in the bars,why hasen't he done anything about it?
Also,what connections(if any)does Paulus have to C&C's and the casinos on aruba where they allowed Joran full access even with him being underage.

[KarmaRoundUp]

any chance FEB is one of the others drugged?

that chick made some bizarre statements.

I can't remember back that far. What statement did she make that were bizarre?

Me either and am curious.
Rob: Can you elaborate on what you thought was bizarre in her statements?

Shadow, she just seem to say she saw Natalee somewhere...and it fuels people that think there is another side to this phrase - 'I saw her back at the Hotel, I'm just going to leave it at that....'

WTF???

I think FEB whole comment was taken out of context.Can someone post the whole comment here or in the on topic thread?

[JuJu]

Klaas, I am sorry but I have forgotten how to post a photo bucket pic in my reply.....help

[Dayhiker]

Do you recall the date of Haley's statement and sample being taken?

Thank you Klaas. That was very short time after Natalee went missing.