Lively Case Discussion #670 7/31 - 8/01/2007

[JustMeT]

I think that Natalee was in serious condition or dead by 2:26AM.
That's when Joran called Deepak with an 8-minute call.

Which is why Deepak canot recall what was said due to a bad connection.
Does anybody know what Joran said about this call? TIA

[Anna]

San,
It could have gone just as you said or the opposite~Paulus sending Joran out to try to give the appearance of normalcy.  I do think Joran walked the route they had driven the night before looking for the cups or something they threw out the car window or went there to plant the shoes, some reason he did that walk.

We are not dealing with a person who can act normal.  If Joran was in fact with someone it would have been with someone of authority.  He would have never left him with Deepak alone.  Especially after what happened in his home.

There are several witnesses who state Joran was in fact at the casino earlier.  I am not sure how many people would be willing to lie for PVDS about something that would be on tape and could be verified.

Sociopaths mimic the behavior of others often quite well.  But I think you are correct that Paulus would be very nervous about allowing Joran out of his sight with Joran's big mouth.  I still think he was forced to risk it as in Joran being at the Racquet club, etc.  I also think many of his actions were based on his fear of Anita as much as anything.
.

[Nut44x4]

That post Klaas found explains Haley Segonia's drug test.

Did I get her name right?

Except WHO IS Haley?

An island girl? Is there a Haley? Im confused..

Angie - the FBI analyized a urine sample from her.  I believe she is an American and not an Aruban.  We don't know who she is and was not one of the MB kids.

It does not say whose urine was tested. Hayley Sagona is the nurse/tech who took/ran the sample.   She graduated from Huntington High School, Huntington, NY in 1986. I do not know where she went to college. She has nothing to do with the case other than medical wise.

[SunFreak2]

That post Klaas found explains Haley Segonia's drug test.

Did I get her name right?

Except WHO IS Haley?

An island girl? Is there a Haley? Im confused..

Angie - the FBI analyized a urine sample from her.  I believe she is an American and not an Aruban.  We don't know who she is and was not one of the MB kids.

Do you recall the date of Haley's statement and sample being taken?

6/5/05

[KarmaRoundUp]

"Yeah,I think this date rape drugging has been going on for a long time on Aruba.With the tourist females and the island females,all apparently right under ALE nose..."


Karma--I think you are right. And ALE let it go on. Despicable.

Hi Justice
I think it has gone on for years....I wonder why anyone would want to live there...maybe they have no other options but I could never live there let alone visit there knowing that my daughter could be drug raped and also knowing that nothing at all would be done about it.There is NO justice on aruba.

[klaasend]

Klaas, I am sorry but I have forgotten how to post a photo bucket pic in my reply.....help

You just copy the photobucket link with the IMG tags and paste it into you post.

[KarmaRoundUp]

any chance FEB is one of the others drugged?

that chick made some bizarre statements.

I can't remember back that far. What statement did she make that were bizarre?

Me either and am curious.
Rob: Can you elaborate on what you thought was bizarre in her statements?

Shadow, she just seem to say she saw Natalee somewhere...and it fuels people that think there is another side to this phrase - 'I saw her back at the Hotel, I'm just going to leave it at that....'

WTF???

I can't find her exact statement right now...it was either NG or Greta interview I think...but she did not say 'HOTEL'...read the thing carefully. She said...I saw her there..and I'll leave it at that. They were discussing C&C's and Holiday Inn at the same time......and it made it sound like she meant Hotel.   ARGGGGGG...she did not mean BACK AT Holiday Inn!!

That's exactly how I took FEB's statements.They were taken out of context by some.I think that interview could have been with Bill O.

[SunFreak2]

Haley Sagona, if the nurse taking the urine samples, could have been quesioned as far as chain of custody goes.

[klaasend]

That post Klaas found explains Haley Segonia's drug test.

Did I get her name right?

Except WHO IS Haley?

An island girl? Is there a Haley? Im confused..

Angie - the FBI analyized a urine sample from her.  I believe she is an American and not an Aruban.  We don't know who she is and was not one of the MB kids.

It does not say whose urine was tested. Hayley Sagona is the nurse/tech who took/ran the sample.   She graduated from Huntington High School, Huntington, NY in 1986. I do not know where she went to college. She has nothing to do with the case other than medical wise.

Nut - are you certain about this?  Why would they take a statement from a nurse/tech who took/ran the sample?  Does not make sense to me.

[Nut44x4]

Sorry, 4got the link
Hayley Carrero Sagona , Class of 1986
I have another one someplace that states someting about nursing school or something like that.

[Easywriter]

That post Klaas found explains Haley Segonia's drug test.

Did I get her name right?

Except WHO IS Haley?

An island girl? Is there a Haley? Im confused..

Angie - the FBI analyized a urine sample from her.  I believe she is an American and not an Aruban.  We don't know who she is and was not one of the MB kids.

It does not say whose urine was tested. Hayley Sagona is the nurse/tech who took/ran the sample.   She graduated from Huntington High School, Huntington, NY in 1986. I do not know where she went to college. She has nothing to do with the case other than medical wise.

Nut - are you certain about this?  Why would they take a statement from a nurse/tech who took/ran the sample?  Does not make sense to me.

Doesn't it list a nurse?

[JuJu]

THANK YOU KLAAS, having one of my brain dead days...

In honor of Natalee Parker says ROLL TIDE!

[San]

any chance FEB is one of the others drugged?

that chick made some bizarre statements.

I can't remember back that far. What statement did she make that were bizarre?

Me either and am curious.
Rob: Can you elaborate on what you thought was bizarre in her statements?

Shadow, she just seem to say she saw Natalee somewhere...and it fuels people that think there is another side to this phrase - 'I saw her back at the Hotel, I'm just going to leave it at that....'

WTF???

I can't find her exact statement right now...it was either NG or Greta interview I think...but she did not say 'HOTEL'...read the thing carefully. She said...I saw her there..and I'll leave it at that. They were discussing C&C's and Holiday Inn at the same time......and it made it sound like she meant Hotel.   ARGGGGGG...she did not mean BACK AT Holiday Inn!!

I got the following quote from Truth 4 Natalee site:

Interviewer: Let me ask you, Frances Ellen, when is the last time you saw her?
Frances Ellen Byrd: That night.
Interviewer: Yes, you saw her the night...
Frances Ellen Byrd: I was with her that night.
Interviewer: You were with her that night.
Frances Ellen Byrd: Yes. Yes.
Interviewer: All the friends went back to the hotel. And did you all see her go back to the hotel or not?
Frances Ellen Byrd: I am just leaving it that we saw her there.
Interviewer: Saw her that night.
Frances Ellen Byrd: Right.
Mountain Brook youth minister: Yes. Absolutely.
Interviewer: All right. Well, Frances Ellen, thank you so much for being with us tonight. Mark (Mark Yoder,the youth minister), thank you. And, of course, our prayers are going to be with you, with Natalee and with Natalee‘s family on this very important search.
Frances Ellen Byrd: Thank you. Thank you so much.

[KarmaRoundUp]

any chance FEB is one of the others drugged?

that chick made some bizarre statements.

Dave said it wasn't one of the females on the trip that was drugged.What bizarre statements did FEB make?

Isn't that the episode Joran talked about.  I think it was Karen.

VIANA, Fernando  (DOB 9-03-87) – Joran in his June 24th statement says –“ I have to say that I am not sure any more if "Freddy ZEDAN" or "Fernando VIANA" was in the appartment with us.”  His father is Dr. Carlos Viana.

Hmmmm,I don't remember what that was about.Hi SF

[Anna]

This evening when I have more time, I will find Hammer's post on field testing of blood evidence.

How could they know if it was blood on the mattress and not know if it was in the car?

So many questions, so few answers.

But recently, we have the information that a professional PR firm was hired to assist in the cover up so is it any wonder that things became so muddled so quickly?

If Julia and Angela were running a scam by Wednesday on the family, well, that's pretty quick and why I don't believe anything even things posted very early one.

.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

THANK YOU KLAAS, having one of my brain dead days...

In honor of Natalee Parker says ROLL TIDE!

  Aweeeeeeeeee JuJu  Precious!! I am sure the BAMA folks here will love that photo!!   

[Anna]

2+ Car Theory:

If we agree this was a planned activity (there are many indications that it was planned) then why would they use a huge neon sign for the pickup?  Deepak's car might as well have had a flashing neon sign on the top.

They didn't anticipate something bad happening?  Never had before and I suspect they became more bold as time passed with this.

I also think they may have discussed things like what to do should a girl want to bring charges like establishing an alibi via the computers.  Paulus seemed to know about this as well.

Deepak walked in the door and set about establishing an alibi according to his PV statements.  Why did he think he was going to need one and why did he think he needed to mess up an investigation?  What had happened that made him think there was even going to be an investigation?

There is so much circumstantial evidence like that I have to think in another system, there is enough for a conviction.  But their system has to have hard evidence, the very kind ALE refused to collect.
.

[JuJu]

Thanks Angie....my first Grand Baby

[Nut44x4]

Sorry, 4got the link
Hayley Carrero Sagona , Class of 1986
I have another one someplace that states someting about nursing school or something like that.

Okay...so I am wrong, sorry. I had been looking at another page of the discovery where it appeared it was her taking the sample.now I just don't know. She did graduate in 1986 from Huntington High though...so that would make her apx. 38 yrs. old, so "wtf" is right...lol.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

I re~read the HALEY thing and at the bottom it says Nurse Marie Obrien...