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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1  (Read 1372225 times)
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #100 on: August 04, 2007, 01:41:49 AM »

Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.

LOL.  It would be nice of Shango would make a brief appearance to tell us if we were even close to deciphering any of this.
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« Reply #101 on: August 04, 2007, 01:43:13 AM »

Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.

Shango does enough blurring for all of us.  I just think your sig line is what this case is all about.  No matter how many times we want to say it's just a simple crime, we find out it really isn't that simple. 
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« Reply #102 on: August 04, 2007, 01:44:54 AM »

Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.

LOL.  It would be nice of Shango would make a brief appearance to tell us if we were even close to deciphering any of this.

I suspect that Shango does more laughing at us than we think.  If Shango even cares anymore.  You would think someone that spent all that time trying to tell us something would have the courage to finish what they started.
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« Reply #103 on: August 04, 2007, 01:44:58 AM »

Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.

Shango does enough blurring for all of us.  I just think your sig line is what this case is all about.  No matter how many times we want to say it's just a simple crime, we find out it really isn't that simple. 

As Simian said This is all a “lugubrious game"
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« Reply #104 on: August 04, 2007, 01:46:10 AM »

For what it is worth,....In the islands and south Florida, "Cowboys" are the Columbian Drug dealers.  I have seen equiisearch referred to as the Texans
and Americans as North Americans.  So I am not sure it is revelent here,
but it could shed a llittle light.
Also as far as Natalee doing cocaine,   If You are drinking and do a line of coke it sobers you right up almost immediately. It would take a real lot of coke to overdose.   IMHO she was not doing coke, but am relatively sure she was given Date rape drug.
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« Reply #105 on: August 04, 2007, 01:53:06 AM »

For what it is worth,....In the islands and south Florida, "Cowboys" are the Columbian Drug dealers.  I have seen equiisearch referred to as the Texans
and Americans as North Americans.  So I am not sure it is revelent here,
but it could shed a llittle light.
Also as far as Natalee doing cocaine,   If You are drinking and do a line of coke it sobers you right up almost immediately. It would take a real lot of coke to overdose.   IMHO she was not doing coke, but am relatively sure she was given Date rape drug.

I don't think she was doing coke either.  Date rape drug is very possible.
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« Reply #106 on: August 04, 2007, 01:54:16 AM »

Well, BB your sig line is very appropriate tonight.  The edges have blurred even more.

I don't want to "blurr" the picture. I sure wish we had more definite answers.

LOL.  It would be nice of Shango would make a brief appearance to tell us if we were even close to deciphering any of this.

I suspect that Shango does more laughing at us than we think.  If Shango even cares anymore.  You would think someone that spent all that time trying to tell us something would have the courage to finish what they started.

I think he was trying to tell us 2 simultaneous things and this is just my take on it. On one hand I think he had inside knowledge of what really happened that night. In reading the verses 2 years later, it doesn't come across as clearly that that was the case. But if you were here at the time he was churning out that information, he clearly had to be in the "know" . The second thread of his writings, again IMO seems to be about his knowledge of the "dark side" of aruba and such things as the Lions den, the Elders etc.
 
Night all. Hope we can tango again tomorrow.
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #107 on: August 04, 2007, 01:56:04 AM »

From the beginning of Shango:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….


Shango’s first post.  Simian and the posters are talking about Steve Croes.  Simian says the music man’s song was not on the bill.  Shango is trying to let everyone know that someone else is involved in “singing the wrong tune”.
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« Reply #108 on: August 04, 2007, 01:58:03 AM »

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost.
Will one of the cards sing?


One of the cards is Van Der Straaten.  Don’t know the other(s).  Van Der Straaten, by this time, will be ‘retiring’ soon.  That is why that card is ‘lost’.  If Van Der Straaten or the other card(s) sing, Paulus will have a problem.  The other card could be Steve Croes or Lorenzo Van Rjin.
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« Reply #109 on: August 04, 2007, 02:01:13 AM »

Is the Tango over??
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« Reply #110 on: August 04, 2007, 02:10:09 AM »

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….


I think Shango is referring to the Aruban citizens (Sumerians).  Babylonians are those who run things on the island – the ruling class -  including PVDS.  Van der Straaten is the Babylonian card. 
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« Reply #111 on: August 04, 2007, 08:19:17 AM »

Not Shango or Simian .....but interesting post I saved. Around the same time period that klaas posted a few pages earlier...



tony Says:
April 28th, 2006 at 4:17 pm

I am the one who sold the pictures to the daily news of SC and FA, I am
the former cruise ship waiter who knows the seaports as well as anyone, I
worked for 5 years onboard in the caribbean. I have rented the hookers and
gone to the underbelly for drugs many times. I have many dutch friends
and many island friends. Here are some things that stick out to me:
Drunk drivers never get caught on the first trip home, pedophiles have the
worst recitvism of any criiminal, prostitution and drugs are run and owned
by people with GREAT wealth it is never the poor.

Joran is the epitome of a spoiled, lying, drinking ,gambling adult by his own
admission.

Where are your shoes Joran from that night? Nobody walks home barefoot
in Aruba!

I saw you enjoying the choking you gave your brother with your belt.
I saw you humping at least 5 girls at C&Cs, all foreigners.
You are addicted to the 4 vices all of us are offered in life, Drinking
,gambling, drugs and Porn/sex.

You know FA made that tape and was trying to launch his own porn label.
You were there
.

She told you she was a virgin, you had to pass her on because of that didn’t you? That made you mad. You never should have told.

Did the K2 boys get mad when she asked if they were your slaves?

How is your soccer buddy (K)? Do you miss him?

SC, K2, FA and MD are your pals along with the BL gang, and kj , big D and vs are the protectors, we will never meet the owners, they dont live like us.

I have all the pictures from the early days.

Where is your mom now? She knows about you and your dads vices
I dont see the hugs and kisses anymore.

I know you like biting and choking and you are not a lover, you are a user , you use them up like toothpaste and then you spit them out.
 
Come get me Joe T, I am already in NY waiting.

You are now alone in this world.
 
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #112 on: August 04, 2007, 11:15:30 AM »

Not Shango or Simian .....but interesting post I saved. Around the same time period that klaas posted a few pages earlier...



tony Says:
April 28th, 2006 at 4:17 pm

I am the one who sold the pictures to the daily news of SC and FA, I am
the former cruise ship waiter who knows the seaports as well as anyone, I
worked for 5 years onboard in the caribbean. I have rented the hookers and
gone to the underbelly for drugs many times. I have many dutch friends
and many island friends. Here are some things that stick out to me:
Drunk drivers never get caught on the first trip home, pedophiles have the
worst recitvism of any criiminal, prostitution and drugs are run and owned
by people with GREAT wealth it is never the poor.

Joran is the epitome of a spoiled, lying, drinking ,gambling adult by his own
admission.

Where are your shoes Joran from that night? Nobody walks home barefoot
in Aruba!

I saw you enjoying the choking you gave your brother with your belt.
I saw you humping at least 5 girls at C&Cs, all foreigners.
You are addicted to the 4 vices all of us are offered in life, Drinking
,gambling, drugs and Porn/sex.

You know FA made that tape and was trying to launch his own porn label.
You were there
.

She told you she was a virgin, you had to pass her on because of that didn’t you? That made you mad. You never should have told.

Did the K2 boys get mad when she asked if they were your slaves?

How is your soccer buddy (K)? Do you miss him?

SC, K2, FA and MD are your pals along with the BL gang, and kj , big D and vs are the protectors, we will never meet the owners, they dont live like us.

I have all the pictures from the early days.

Where is your mom now? She knows about you and your dads vices
I dont see the hugs and kisses anymore.

I know you like biting and choking and you are not a lover, you are a user , you use them up like toothpaste and then you spit them out.
 
Come get me Joe T, I am already in NY waiting.

You are now alone in this world.
 

Very interesting post.  Do you think this guy is for real?  Do you know if he ever posted again?

You know FA made that tape and was trying to launch his own porn label.
You were there.


I think this could be regarding the tape FA was arrested for, not a tape of Natalee.  What do you think?

She told you she was a virgin, you had to pass her on because of that didn’t you? That made you mad. You never should have told.

Now, this is interesting as well.  If there is a protocol for that business and the 'gophers' are not allowed to be the first to deflower the catch, then that makes Shango even more interesting.  Shango does hint at this scenario, but Shango interjects an element of fear from Joran.

Hmmm...
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« Reply #113 on: August 04, 2007, 11:48:06 AM »

Not Shango or Simian .....but interesting post I saved. Around the same time period that klaas posted a few pages earlier...



tony Says:
April 28th, 2006 at 4:17 pm

I am the one who sold the pictures to the daily news of SC and FA, I am
the former cruise ship waiter who knows the seaports as well as anyone, I
worked for 5 years onboard in the caribbean. I have rented the hookers and
gone to the underbelly for drugs many times. I have many dutch friends
and many island friends. Here are some things that stick out to me:
Drunk drivers never get caught on the first trip home, pedophiles have the
worst recitvism of any criiminal, prostitution and drugs are run and owned
by people with GREAT wealth it is never the poor.

Joran is the epitome of a spoiled, lying, drinking ,gambling adult by his own
admission.

Where are your shoes Joran from that night? Nobody walks home barefoot
in Aruba!

I saw you enjoying the choking you gave your brother with your belt.
I saw you humping at least 5 girls at C&Cs, all foreigners.
You are addicted to the 4 vices all of us are offered in life, Drinking
,gambling, drugs and Porn/sex.

You know FA made that tape and was trying to launch his own porn label.
You were there
.

She told you she was a virgin, you had to pass her on because of that didn’t you? That made you mad. You never should have told.

Did the K2 boys get mad when she asked if they were your slaves?

How is your soccer buddy (K)? Do you miss him?

SC, K2, FA and MD are your pals along with the BL gang, and kj , big D and vs are the protectors, we will never meet the owners, they dont live like us.

I have all the pictures from the early days.

Where is your mom now? She knows about you and your dads vices
I dont see the hugs and kisses anymore.

I know you like biting and choking and you are not a lover, you are a user , you use them up like toothpaste and then you spit them out.
 
Come get me Joe T, I am already in NY waiting.

You are now alone in this world.
 

Very interesting post.  Do you think this guy is for real?  Do you know if he ever posted again?

You know FA made that tape and was trying to launch his own porn label.
You were there.


I think this could be regarding the tape FA was arrested for, not a tape of Natalee.  What do you think?

She told you she was a virgin, you had to pass her on because of that didn’t you? That made you mad. You never should have told.

Now, this is interesting as well.  If there is a protocol for that business and the 'gophers' are not allowed to be the first to deflower the catch, then that makes Shango even more interesting.  Shango does hint at this scenario, but Shango interjects an element of fear from Joran.

Hmmm...

There was a TONY posting in the forum for a while, I think it's the same person.  See if this link to his posts works:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=270;sa=showPosts
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« Reply #114 on: August 04, 2007, 03:03:21 PM »

Simian…
I agree with those who think Simian was reporting on “inside “ info developing during the initial investigative process.  It was the beginning, no antagonism amongst those interested in the case was foreseen at the time, and it was probably assumed that within a few days the Aruba Police would solve the case. The press visiting Aruba and the blog readers’ demand for information affected all the notoriety seekers.  Many wanted the attention, even if hidden behind the unseen face of an username and a friend-of-Americans attitude.

Simian reported what he was told by his source and enhanced it with his own thoughts and opinions, all of which served to “taint” his reports with personal biases and guessing (i. e. the package from The Hague).

Simian meant well and unfortunately, when anti-Aruban factions started to develop, his attitude and those of many members posting from Aruba changed to reflect a nationalistic defense, which became an obstacle to the flow of quasi-factual information and word-of-mouth comments.

Shango…
This character originated when a couple of pranksters from Aruba decided to have some fun at the cost of Simian and an information hungry audience.  Shango posted only for a few days, maybe four days, and the Shango duo quit when several things happened:  Shango figured out who Simian was and started to make fun of him; Simian then figured out who they (Shango) are -Simian PINGed Shangoo-, and perhaps an arrangement of no aggression was made between these Colegio Arubano schoolmates.

Probably, there is also an ingredient of guilt behind Shango’s “resignation”.  They meant to have a few laughs, but readers began to give credence to the Shango comments and in doing that, Shango inadvertently began the groundworks for the discredit of Aruban socio-political structure and their Dutch establishment, in blogs and forums (or fora, as dykejumper correctly refers to the Latin plural).

Fierljepper…
Dykejumper is overstressing that he is a “newbie” to Shango and Simian, so I am going to assume that for some personal reason, that is what he wants everyone to believe when in fact it is the other way around.

Babylonians…
This terminology is intimately related to the history of The Reformation and the rise of Protestantism in the 16th Century.  The reformers agreed that Salvation was by faith alone in Jesus Christ. There was a renewed interest in the study and application of Bible Doctrine and a rejection of Papal Bulls, church traditions and extra biblical principles. 

Martin Luther published “Babylonian Captivity of the Church” in 1520, where he pointed out the evils of the sacramental system of the Roman Catholic Church, making a spiritual connection between Rome and Babylon.  To him, the papacy is the Kingdom of Babylon and Rome, the modern Babylon.

Protestant Reformation, or Calvinism, rapidly became the second phase Protestantism and the theological system of the majority in the 16th and 17th century Netherlands.

The terminology Babylonians is a well-known concept in the historical perspective of the Dutch speaking peoples.  When Shango used it, it was not meant to refer to the Dutch establishment in Aruba, but most likely the Catholics-"the Prostitute of Babylon"- desiring lust for riches and gratifications of the flesh, whomever they are.  Possibly dykejumper can enlighten us.


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« Reply #115 on: August 04, 2007, 03:22:54 PM »

Simian…
I agree with those who think Simian was reporting on “inside “ info developing during the initial investigative process.  It was the beginning, no antagonism amongst those interested in the case was foreseen at the time, and it was probably assumed that within a few days the Aruba Police would solve the case. The press visiting Aruba and the blog readers’ demand for information affected all the notoriety seekers.  Many wanted the attention, even if hidden behind the unseen face of an username and a friend-of-Americans attitude.

Simian reported what he was told by his source and enhanced it with his own thoughts and opinions, all of which served to “taint” his reports with personal biases and guessing (i. e. the package from The Hague).

Simian meant well and unfortunately, when anti-Aruban factions started to develop, his attitude and those of many members posting from Aruba changed to reflect a nationalistic defense, which became an obstacle to the flow of quasi-factual information and word-of-mouth comments.

Shango…
This character originated when a couple of pranksters from Aruba decided to have some fun at the cost of Simian and an information hungry audience.  Shango posted only for a few days, maybe four days, and the Shango duo quit when several things happened:  Shango figured out who Simian was and started to make fun of him; Simian then figured out who they (Shango) are -Simian PINGed Shangoo-, and perhaps an arrangement of no aggression was made between these Colegio Arubano schoolmates.

Probably, there is also an ingredient of guilt behind Shango’s “resignation”.  They meant to have a few laughs, but readers began to give credence to the Shango comments and in doing that, Shango inadvertently began the groundworks for the discredit of Aruban socio-political structure and their Dutch establishment, in blogs and forums (or fora, as dykejumper correctly refers to the Latin plural).

Fierljepper…
Dykejumper is overstressing that he is a “newbie” to Shango and Simian, so I am going to assume that for some personal reason, that is what he wants everyone to believe when in fact it is the other way around.

Babylonians…
This terminology is intimately related to the history of The Reformation and the rise of Protestantism in the 16th Century.  The reformers agreed that Salvation was by faith alone in Jesus Christ. There was a renewed interest in the study and application of Bible Doctrine and a rejection of Papal Bulls, church traditions and extra biblical principles. 

Martin Luther published “Babylonian Captivity of the Church” in 1520, where he pointed out the evils of the sacramental system of the Roman Catholic Church, making a spiritual connection between Rome and Babylon.  To him, the papacy is the Kingdom of Babylon and Rome, the modern Babylon.

Protestant Reformation, or Calvinism, rapidly became the second phase Protestantism and the theological system of the majority in the 16th and 17th century Netherlands.

The terminology Babylonians is a well-known concept in the historical perspective of the Dutch speaking peoples.  When Shango used it, it was not meant to refer to the Dutch establishment in Aruba, but most likely the Catholics-"the Prostitute of Babylon"- desiring lust for riches and gratifications of the flesh, whomever they are.  Possibly dykejumper can enlighten us.




Thanks for you insight into this. 

I agree that Simian was posting information received from within the investigation.  Initally his posts were not so cryptic.  I would speculate that Simian may have posted more than ALE would have liked and that is when the style of his posts changed.

I am not inclined to believe Shango was a joke, as he was relaying similar information in a different format.  Shango did, however, venture into the possible socio-economic conditions in Aruba that are not totally unlike many other countries in the world.  If Shango was having fun, as you indicate, some of those posts appear to be based in fact.  For instance, the posts that imply that the Kalpoes left Joran and Nat and were not present when she met her demise...whatever that may have been.  The Kalpoes had already told this version to ALE before Shango posted.

As for the Babylonians, do you think it would be correct the this term could apply to a "ruling class"?
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« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2007, 03:43:20 PM »

Since Simian was the first to use the term 'Babylonians' and Shango's first post the next day used the term to ask a question of Simian, do you think they were in agreement as to whom the term referred?

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
The Simian knows the Babylonians. They need to plan the legal checkmate perfectly. They know that the elder knows his way around the palace. All gates need to be shut.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….


Actually, it's difficult to tell if Shango asked a question when using the term or was he answering the question for Simian?
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« Reply #117 on: August 04, 2007, 06:43:23 PM »

The terms Arawak and Sumerian were used by Simian and Shango.  Many of us have speculated that Arawaks refers to the native Arubans.  Then we have asked who the Sumerians were, often asking if this term was referring to the Mansurs.

In reading the posts in context it seems to me that Arawaks and Sumerians actually refers to the same group of people.  The first reference to either of these terms comes from Shango:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Simian, The Sumerians do not like the Babylonian intrusion.
The Babylonian card may be tossed from the table and crushed under Sumerian feet (or feat)….


Simian does not respond.  The next reference is from Shango again:


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ? They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….


Simian responds:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping. The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.



Then Shango responds:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:30 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the key for the Arawaks   So it will remain “cowboys and indians” The posse was too late


It's as though Shango is saying 'fine, we can call them Arawaks if you prefer' and uses that term from then on.  The term Sumerians was never mentioned again by either Shango or Simian.

To examine this closer, Shango chose the term Sumerians.  Sumerians were a mixed ethnic group who spoke many languages and settled in Mesopotamia, now known as Iraq.  They were eventually ruled by the Babylonians.  Interesting that Sumerians and Babylonians were both civilzations in Mesopotamia/Iraq.

Simian preferred Arawaks, who migrated to the Caribbean islands from South America.  He chose a term more closely related to the islands.

I believe Sumerians and Arawaks are the same group of people.  Any thoughts?
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« Reply #118 on: August 04, 2007, 07:03:55 PM »

Simian…

(...)
Fierljepper…
Dykejumper is overstressing that he is a “newbie” to Shango and Simian, so I am going to assume that for some personal reason, that is what he wants everyone to believe when in fact it is the other way around.
(...)


You're clearly not reading my posts.

I'm not overstressing that I'm a newbie, I was just replying to a question from someone who implicated that I was a Newbie. He/she was right. And before you start more rumors, I'm also not Simian or Shango...

For the rest, I think you're post was very good!

P.S. 1
Funny that you use the word Dyke instead of Ditch (I wasn't aware of that second meaning). In NL we put a "finger in the dyke" and we "jump over ditches" (with a stick or pole).

Now that you've mentioned dykes. Just as a little subroutine...  It reminds me of a funny story I experienced during one of my recent visits to the US. Caught a taxi at my hotel for my family and we were heading for a mall. Me in the front seat and my family in back seat. Driver asks me were I'm from. Told him that I was from the Netherlands. Then we chatted a while about language in general. Told him that we use a lot of English words in our language, but that there are also a few Dutch words that made it into English. Gave him the examples of "apartheid" (which unfortunately is Dutch) and also the word "dyke". Then he suddenly gave me a very naughty look and after some hesitation sneakily asked me whether that particular word "dyke" also had a similar "connotation" in Dutch (you know what I mean, hush hush, blink blink). I pretended that didn't understand what he was hinting at and replied with a poker face: "surely we do, in the Netherlands we're actually used to stack up our lesbians to protect us from the sea and the rivers". This was followed by a stunning silence of at least a few minutes. Then he burst out in laughter and almost hit the oncoming traffic on the other side of the road...

P.S.2
Tip. Try your nickname on Babelfish with conversion set "Dutch -> English" Very Happy
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« Reply #119 on: August 04, 2007, 07:25:15 PM »


<snipped>

Fierljepper…
Dykejumper is overstressing that he is a “newbie” to Shango and Simian, so I am going to assume that for some personal reason, that is what he wants everyone to believe when in fact it is the other way around.

<snipped>


Stom ... I agree.

I suspect that Fierljepper is taking advantage of Shango's theory to further the Aruban agenda of Julia Renfro and her many internet associates ... an agenda that distances Paulus and Joran from implication in the events that empasses the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing and ... directs focus on the MB students ... Natalee's actions and ... Beth's credibility.

Janet


Shango's Riddle
Fierljepper's Interpretation
August 1, 2007

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.0

If you read through the whole sequence of their posts, it actually isn't that difficult to follow (it's only a bit unfortunate that someone "alter-egod" Simian along the way):

In a nutshell: they're talking about a "Dirtyhand" who is the jealous ex-boyfriend of Natalee who they see as the real murderer. However, neither the Aruban legal system (Babylonians) nor the Aruban police/investigation team (Awaraks) are allowed to break into the inner circle of the Mountain Brook students and their parents (the maze and the elders). They postulate a high level cover up deal between US and Aruba officials which aims to conceal this pretty embarrassing case for some influential US people. The cowboys (Equusearch/FBI) are searching Aruba (Babylon) for nothing. Joran van der Sloot (the son) and the Kalpoes (the Hindus/Shivas) are used as the scape goats to distract the attention from Natalees peers. The boys are sacrificed (Joran is 'the lamb', the fire gets heated up) to protect the high level deal. Since they knew that there never would be found any crucial evidence or a body ("the key to edens door"), the whole case ended in the current catch 22.

This is remarkably in line with Dompig's and Renfro's recent story, so Simian/Shango could very well have been one of them. They most certainly were very well informed in those days, even earlier than the press it seemed. "The lord" must therefore be somebody higher up then them. Who was the boss of Dompig ? Who was the president of Aruba ? Cool

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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