SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[MumInOhio]

Caps...Sorry another question....is there an Albert who worked at the Red Sail with Koen? TIA...

Sorry....this question should have been for jackb.....


Lala's...please check your mail....

From Jack B:  I do not know, but seems like there was an AB questioned at some point during the first few weeks or so of the investigation.  A dude, seems like with glasses, late twenties.  Looked like he would be some type businessman.  J/b

Thanks jackb....was trying to find out about Albert Vrolijk, the guy that found the panties. I read the other day that one worked at the Red Sail, but this guy was a DJ and still is. Common name, but if one worked at Red Sail he would know Koen for sure. Interesting about A.B. I hadn't seen that...Thanks!

Mum and Jack

Not sure bu thought at one time this had been resolved.  Think it was another one of those intial/misspelled name screw up.  AB= Aaron (Aram) Batzis= Freddy.

Can't swear it but that's what I remember.

Thanks Helenback...the description jackb gave didn't fit Freddy, so I am still wondering.

And one more to confuuse Lala's....but my money is on a Gottenbos...LOL

Rjames forums…9/9/2005
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:LoWHbBrK9kIJ:www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/natalee_hollowa_48.html+%2B%22natalee+Holloway%22+%2Bbreakfast+%2Bbrunch+%2Bolder+man&hl=en
Posted by: Noplanstovisit | Aug 21, 2005 5:32:10 AM
"Tag team set up. Lorenzo Wever (casino employee, flew to Holland right after Natalee’s disappearance) befriends Natalie and makes sure he sits with her at breakfast so that observers will think something is going on between them (and maybe so, maybe not)."

"About all I'll say - 24 was the age I heard. And I am aware of a poker dealer who allegedly quit and left Aruba the day after he was questioned. Have no more info on that."
Posted by: Dan | Aug 21, 2005 3:14:08 AM

[Helen Back]

Mum, I don't know who that description fits.  What a clusterfuque.

 

Can't picture Nat talking to Guido for more than two seconds. 

[hotping]

DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS.

Please correct Me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a picture posted not too long ago of a house in Savaneta that was for sale or had sold that had a white pickup parked in front of it..I want to say it was Lorenzo's Mothers house....I just can't remember exactly....

[bleachedblack]

DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS.

Please correct Me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a picture posted not too long ago of a house in Savaneta that was for sale or had sold that had a white pickup parked in front of it..I want to say it was Lorenzo's Mothers house....I just can't remember exactly....

This does not have the white truck.......but I think this is LVR's mothers house for rent in Aruba. Found it on Ebay.........not sure who owns it now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230211679528&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013

[hotping]

DH DWELS IN SAVANETA  ::MonkeyHaHa::DANGER SM WALLS HAVE EARS.

Please correct Me if I'm wrong but wasn't there a picture posted not too long ago of a house in Savaneta that was for sale or had sold that had a white pickup parked in front of it..I want to say it was Lorenzo's Mothers house....I just can't remember exactly....

This does not have the white truck.......but I think this is LVR's mothers house for rent in Aruba. Found it on Ebay.........not sure who owns it now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230211679528&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013

HI BB This is not the one I was thinking of ..the picture I'm talking about was like a side view of the house You could see the front of the house at an angle and the white truck was parked near the fence in front of the house maybe it was Lorenzo's house.....   

[MumInOhio]

Good Morning all..

Sirensong…’other side of the pond’ if you google and go to forums on Aruba this is definitely Mother Holland

Hotping…Thanks … the white pickups belong to the polis. Per the pics posted on the other thread last night

Jackb….I think you are on to something with A.V. arrested/detained/questioned with  GVC on 4/15/2005…this is the Albert Vrolijk that worked at the Red Sail not the DJ. Need to know more about the altered pics.

Gunslinger…Thanks..the Gottenbos parents, the important others, the alibi that needs to be broken, were out of the country, not Koen, party was at the Gottenbos house – this is the nice house that Joran took Natalee to.

Lala’s….remember a few weeks back, I posted from news reports and posters about the two Dutch brothers that were arrested with Joran and the statement from Mickey John’s Mom about the 3 white boys from influential families. Will go back and find it all.

Is it Mirian that asks if the photo is a fake?

Why did ALE lead everyone away from the Gottenbos end of the island? Why did they come here? Better still, why were they allowed to? Where is Sander’s phone? What happened to the other arrest in the Netherlands, the one Jossy says had the scratches, at the time Guido was arrested?

Were the G. Mom and Dad the other 2 tickets on that plane with Anita? Relatives… Anita’s Mom 90th birhday IIRC!

From the MB'ers Natalee met a 'G' - Sander

We have often wondered why that island would protect the Sloots, well IMO they didn’t, they were protecting the Gottenbos’!

COLUMBO ... still working on your youtubes...LOL



Nancy Grace….6/14/2005

GRACE: To Mickey`s mother, Ann John. Ms. John, thank you for being with us.

ANN JOHN, MICKEY JOHN`S MOTHER: Thank you, too.

GRACE: Ms. John, do you believe that your son was arrested in the disappearance because of race?

ANN JOHN: No, I wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t really say that. What I`m trying to say that if they say the girl was picked up and put at the other end of the island, why are they coming to the other end of the island to look for evidence? That`s what I was -- I really want to know.

GRACE: Ms. John, does it upset you that your son was arrested while this judge`s son, Van Der Sloot, remained free?

ANN JOHN: Well, I think -- I think so because for the first or second day and the third day, I wasn`t hearing no names (INAUDIBLE) except the two ex-security guards.

[MumInOhio]

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

 

[MumInOhio]

Anyone know Sander’s middle name?

Recalling Steve’s arrest on the 17th…a lot of reports – from an influential family. Questioned on the 16th – the Gottenbos’

I have always looked at Steve, SGC, and tried to connect GVC. What about S. .G!

Found this yesterday…

GrannyToad- 05-31-2006

All last year we were told that Wiggins? verified that video surveillance had Steve sleeping on the Tattoo that night - and no party.


http://bfnbackup.16.forumer.com/a/more-rumors_post9-45.html

[MumInOhio]

Caps....is it possible the brothers you mentioned were Koen and Sander and not Joran/Val/ Lorenzo?  TIA

[Lala'sMom]

I have thought the Gottenbos were a protected species also. Otherwise, how did they manage to get clear of this mess with such ease?  Something about fleeing to the USA made me think they certainly had a reason, given they owned a home in Aruba and their kids seemed well established there.  Koen and Sander fit the description of well-to-do Dutch brothers more than Joran and Val to me.  MOO

[MumInOhio]

I have thought the Gottenbos were a protected species also. Otherwise, how did they manage to get clear of this mess with such ease?  Something about fleeing to the USA made me think they certainly had a reason, given they owned a home in Aruba and their kids seemed well established there.  Koen and Sander fit the description of well-to-do Dutch brothers more than Joran and Val to me.  MOO

Morning Lala's....I am starting to think this is the correct path. Was Val there too? LOL came across this Sander stuff looking for the story change on the 22nd. from Joran!

Found this...Greta mentioned an alter in the Kalpoe's house and the other is about the famous pic.


Merian Ernest Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: Who is Simian?
The lines flow easily. Full sentences.

Everywhere you go, your dot will be on the dish. The thing is that it came back to haunt you.

Little altars built into their rooms. Only one rested, while the other went to the aide of foul mouthed one. Bite your tongue off now.

The elder is half the man he used to be. Dragging his feet on the lonely streets.


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.
 

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: The mysterious hand...
See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.

[Lala'sMom]

The "hand" reference is about Freddy. He was left out of that picture when the media first began to use it.  I assume because he had not been mentioned in connection with the case at the time.

[MumInOhio]

The "hand" reference is about Freddy. He was left out of that picture when the media first began to use it.  I assume because he had not been mentioned in connection with the case at the time.

Darn...not Freddy...again...LOL...wish he tell the darned truth...and by the way Joran changed to Satish picked him up Feb 2006 and the only one I see interviewed around that time is of course Freddy!

Still need jackb to expand on the changed appearances etc...will have to go find that post.

[BTgirl]

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

 

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

[MumInOhio]

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

 

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

Hi BT,

Thanks....That's why I left a window open, I think I have my David, just need his last name as we all know Joran lies. But he was at the raquet club the following day.

[Lala'sMom]

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

 

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

So would that be Joran?  Caps said a few days ago that Joran delivered her to a place for a party or something like that and waited outside until they brought her back to him. Joran then carried her to this pool apartment, don't know if it was his place or not, and she died there or something like that.

[MumInOhio]

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

 

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

So would that be Joran?  Caps said a few days ago that Joran delivered her to a place for a party or something like that and waited outside until they brought her back to him. Joran then carried her to this pool apartment, don't know if it was his place or not, and she died there or something like that.

I had always thought it meant Joran, until I saw a David popping up! Undecided, but would like to know more....

[jackb]

I have thought the Gottenbos were a protected species also. Otherwise, how did they manage to get clear of this mess with such ease?  Something about fleeing to the USA made me think they certainly had a reason, given they owned a home in Aruba and their kids seemed well established there.  Koen and Sander fit the description of well-to-do Dutch brothers more than Joran and Val to me.  MOO

Morning Lala's....I am starting to think this is the correct path. Was Val there too? LOL came across this Sander stuff looking for the story change on the 22nd. from Joran!

Found this...Greta mentioned an alter in the Kalpoe's house and the other is about the famous pic.


Merian Ernest Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: Who is Simian?
The lines flow easily. Full sentences.

Everywhere you go, your dot will be on the dish. The thing is that it came back to haunt you.

Little altars built into their rooms. Only one rested, while the other went to the aide of foul mouthed one. Bite your tongue off now.

The elder is half the man he used to be. Dragging his feet on the lonely streets.


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Who framed who?
Take a close look at the famous picture.

Deepak, Joran and Satish at C&C. Whose hand is on Satish's shoulder? Take another look.
A really good look.

It can never be the hand of any of the three.
 

Merian Ernest Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: The mysterious hand...
See the hand. On the infamous picture in C&C. The boy in the middle and the Hindus on each side.

Whose hand is on the shoulder of the Hindu on he left? Somebody is missing on this picture.
Maybe somebody was placed on this picture?

It seems more people are vanishing in this case.

It is freddy's hand.  I have a picture of this on my outside storage.    j/b

[Lala'sMom]

This is what I am referring to from one of Capslock's psots:

From CapsLockWizard:


Here is what I think has happen:

From the casino Joran and the Kalpoes went to C&C while the Casino worker (#5) was left working, #5 tried to off him self with an other worker, then leave the casino to go to this Party place. (the house)

#5 call Joran to meet at this party place. At the party place Natalee overdose on #5, Joran Waited outside at the Party Place gate outside and when the gates open, #5 come out and handed the body of Natalee to Joran. The Kalpoes where there since they have follows Joran from C&C and went waithing at the Dutch own Apartment with the Pool near Joran Home for Joran and the girl to return.

Joran drove to the Pool Apartment and it is here that they plan what to do with the body. meanwhile at the the pool they waited for the girl to come Back to life (but she never retain a heartbeat).

The Apartment in question with the pool is just 5 min walk from Jorans his house.

Around the pool they deside to plan what to do and here is where Joran got cought in this web.

[jackb]

And I have left a window open on David, a rather large one at that, unless Tyler or BT can convince me otherwise….Remember the ‘Watch list” that Joran was on when he landed in New York.

 

Hi Mum,

Actually, I think Shango was confused when he said only David left the den alive. He surely was making a reference to Daniel in the lion's den. If that is the case, then we assume that Daniel/David be a reference to the person who came with Natalee to the "lion's den," but left alive while Natalee was killed there?

Hi BT,

Thanks....That's why I left a window open, I think I have my David, just need his last name as we all know Joran lies. But he was at the raquet club the following day.

Found this a long time ago and copied it for reference.  Just happened to have it.  J/b

 looking back over some notes I took down way early in this case, I see that I wrote that a number of people left Aruba within days of Natalee going missing. They were: Michael Posner, owner of the Holiday Inn Sunspree &
Excelsior Casino, Jacobus Lorenzo"David" Wever, the Casino Manager; Paul
Brough aka Mr. Pink of Pink Productions, a widely distributed porn site; Alberto
Levy-Nacam, Operations Manager of Carlos N Charlies of Aruba, Guido Wever,
Blackjack Dealer, Coupier at the Excelsior Casino; Van der Straaten, Chief of
Polis in Aruba, the predecessor of Karen Jannsen, Chief Prosecutor of the Dutch Judicial Dept.-Koen Gottenbos, cousin of Joran Van der Sloot, Lorenzo
Van Rijn, owner of an auto and 4 wheeler company in Aruba, and R & S Auto
Repair shop down near the Barcadera area and the Free Port, where drugs are imported into the island via boats, helicopter, small private planes.