SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[MumInOhio]

From Joran's 8/8 PV...Freddy's relatives....who, what, where?????


The suspect was informed once again of the statements given by his friend Freddy and Freddy’s nearest relatives.

Freddy's first alibi was that he was on Curacao at a famly reunion
& his relative's backed him up on this lie.

Boeti...Exactly what did he claim to see again?
Looked like he was looking for $ for his info...
Maybe they should have looked beyond his addictions.
He just nay have seen something!
He WAS in the RIGHT place at the right time.....

Thanks Debra....the alibi...so tight.

I don't think I have heard the Curacao family reunion before...but figured his family needed to be pinched.

[Lala'sMom]

Where is Janet where you need her? LOL  It would be interesting to see what written record we have (news stories, PV) as to Koen's where abouts and also Freddy's the night in question. 

Koen=supposedly at a family gathering.
Freddy=supposedly at a family gathering.

Why was Sander still on the island if this was family?  I think I know why...there never was a Gottenbos family gathering that Koen or Sander atteneded.

[MumInOhio]

Where is Janet where you need her? LOL  It would be interesting to see what written record we have (news stories, PV) as to Koen's where abouts and also Freddy's the night in question. 

Koen=supposedly at a family gathering.
Freddy=supposedly at a family gathering.

Why was Sander still on the island if this was family?  I think I know why...there never was a Gottenbos family gathering that Koen or Sander atteneded.

Back to the beginning...again....and see what is still out there...

IMO....No family reunions.....just the pimp family reunion...

[MumInOhio]

IMHO I think when J2K say the "lighthouse" they are really meaning Arashi Beach...Which was probably one stop they made after leaving Joran's apt. while looking for THE party...A.B. and GVC (& Guido?) would have been there.
Next stop...Moomba Bar/beach where "something bad happens"....Where Paulus shows up to "take care of things"...I doubt Joran really knows what happened after that.

Was it Arashi that Charles Croes went to and was told 'that's Joran's car'? TIA

Someone posted yesterday that maybe the phone was washed up on the beach, but I don't think a cell would be in very good condition after that. DH's went in the pool and POOF!

[Lala'sMom]

I never had a cell phone that did anytime in a liquid substance that survived in working order....ever again.  LOL

Key here would be who owned that phone...right now unless we find that out we can't go any further with that scenario.

Actually it appears that everyone seems to have decided that the only thing that works is what Joran has said.  Just because Joran says it doesn't make it so.  He is clearly hiding another person in all this and removing the Kalpoes from any responsibility.  Now, given what we know...does that make any sense? 

Too many things unexplained:

The 4AM pickup by Paulus.
The trips to the bank that seemed important to Paulus.
Kalpoes cleaning their car in the wee hours of the morning when Satish had school the next day.
Freddy needing to tell the truth.
Anita wanting to know what Freddy had said to the police.
Joran clearly wanting to toss the Kalpoes under the bus for years and now they are in the clear??
Guido being arrested for heavy battery.
Sander's phone missing.
A mystery man sitting next to Natalee in the casino video.
Deepak's alibi Steve Croes.
Satish asking "how's the girl"?
Deepak talking about "that chit".


I could go on, but there are too many things unresolved for this to be just Joran involved.  I wish that cell phone's owner identity was known.

[Lala'sMom]

One more very strange thing to explain, but given how things work on Aruba maybe Joran has the power to rearrange time.

Joran makes a 2:26 AM phone call near the Mickey D's.
A witness places Joran and Deepak in a car near the Raquet Club from 2:30 to 3:00 AM.
Yet....Deepak was at home before Joran's 2:26 AM phone call which I thought was made to Deepak. 

So the conclusion here would be that the witness was mistaken...at least about who was in the car with Joran or Deepak went back to Joran and the witness saw them closer to 3:00 AM.  That might fit.

[CapsLockWizard]

Hello Monkeys.

Alot have been descovert from Shango and Simian.

To understand what has happend on that they, you have to work with both authors side by side.

The shango Author left alot of his clues in poems and Music, Clues of a mystery that delves into the hidden worlds of the Freemasons and other secret societies. Among the questions they must tackle are why an young inocent girl would be the target of a horrifying ritual killing, and how the murderer is using the Dutch LAW to get his way. Do the answers lie within a series of paintings by Leonardo da Vinci? Underneath it all is a shocking secret that some would do anything to protect. 

One of the most interesting poems is this one

# Shango Says: June 30th, 2005 at 2:13 am *****NAT *******
All Secrets are hidden in Plain View



The traffic's backed for miles
On these quiet suburban roads
While the rubber necking strangers
Are dying to see these victims wounds
Cause he's all alone

With his notebooks and poems
In this open grave where he wrote
All of his secrets
That became his lyrics
With no intent to show anyone

[Chorus:]
And we give, and we give
But it's all for nothing
Its all for nothing
We try to resist,
But I gave everything
And its all for nothing

So the panic sets and cycles
His mind for restless sleep
And while the blood-sucking leeches
Contaminate every line they read
Just leave him alone in this dark room

This white sheet, his tightly wrapped cocoon

Cause its no secret
I f***ing need this
Like I don't need anyone

[Chorus x2]

It's like I'm falling asleep with my eyes open
shutting down and off the lights
cause after all of this it's all or nothing
still I wouldn't try to ...

I've fallen asleep with my eyes open
(and you'll lie to all your friends)
(about sights you never saw)

Shutting down and off the lights
(and you'll preach to all the press)
(about what you don't know at all)

Cause after all of this it's all or nothing
Still I wouldn't try to fight

So let me drown so I can breathe again
I'm through choking and suffocating

On alter egos and alter motives
Which weigh you down and take control of
The way you are and the things that you need
The life you live and the dreams that you dream
Distort and blur all in slow motion

They broke you down and now your broken
(Spill the ink and spill your guts again)*16 times in the background*
And it's sadder than the saddest movie
I ever saw but without the beauty
So I stopped watching, I stopped caring
I've lost all interest and I stopped wearing
These plastic smiles, I've washed my hands clean
Forget that you forgot about me
And I'm living life, the big city feeling
It's better than suburban dreaming
Living off the friends that hate you
Talk shit on me like I don't know who
My real friends are anymore, no,
I dont know you anymore
And it's sadder than the saddest movie
I ever saw, but without the beauty
So I stopped watching, I stopped caring

Spill the ink and spill your guts again!

I've fallen asleep with my eyes open
(and you'll lie to all your friends)
(about sights you never saw)

Shutting down and off the lights
(and you'll preach to all the press)
(about what you don't know at all)

Cause after all of this it's all or nothing
Still I wouldn't try to fight


These lyrics is telling how Joran Is and what has happend that night.

[Lala'sMom]

Caps
Up to this point in time I was able with much effort to follow you...now I am really lost.  I can't see this in Shango at all.  You have a much more creative thought process than I do. 

I see Simian as very simple...relating what was happening at the time within the ALE.  Shango is still a mystery on some things, but he's not that difficult to understand.  Don't get me wrong, I know nothing about Shango.  I have only been here for almost three years racking my brain trying to make it fit.  Some days you win....some days you lose.  I guess today I will say I lost...my mind over Shango. 

[Debra]

CapsLockWizard:  What is the name of that song & where it is from?

Wouldn't you say Shango is someone "in the know" of both worlds,
a writer, a creative person, a music producer (reggae), wealthy, "connected"?

One straight path
to the house of Rave,...................Very well could be Canashitu caves
                                                The first "official search"
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin.........Samson Investments (Paul Brough &)
XTC
DNA.............................................."genetics"/evidence

Canashitu caves are right above the bus stop Paulus says he met the bus....

[Debra]

Shango: "All secrets are hidden in Plain View..."

Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code"
Secrets Hidden in Plain View

Da Vinci's paintings contain hidden levels of meaning that go well beneath the surface of the paint. Many scholars believe his work intentionally provides clues to a powerful secret…a secret that remains protected to this day by a clandestine brotherhood of which Da Vinci was a member.

Isn't Lorenzo van Rijn a descendant of Rembrandt van Rijn? (sin, XTC, DNA)

[vms]

I haven't done Shango in a long time but was just reviewing with a friend.
Her suggestion: When reading Shango, think of all music references as relating to drugs.

Maybe you've done this? I haven't read through the thread but it makes sense to me.

[CapsLockWizard]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:50 pm ******** NAT ******
Are insects conned into entering Venus Flytraps?

(Here Shango is telling us not to follow speculation but follows the facts. He put these clues in for those that read his riddle to understand that you can not mix fact with speculation.....he said this is all in 2005, but look what are we doing today, Joran sing a impossible story and the world follows.....).

The pictures are beautiful.  The stories are entertaining.  No human lifetime could watch the whole sequence, so the interpretations are very much model-driven and riddled with difficulties.  Certain ones claim this or that feature supports their pet theory (see Finagle’s Second Law).  Others claim it turns the pet against its owner.

    Evolutionists seem drawn to violence as a creative process.  Though biological evolution is many orders of magnitude more implausible than stellar evolution, it still seems that theories of star and planet formation, though dealing in the hard-science realms of physics and chemistry, still require many ad hoc elements to work.  Note Feigelson’s remark about the “complexities of planet formation” – they are many, and serious.

    Telescopes bring us light from these objects that, though it left long ago, is received in our present.  The light gives us information about color, temperature, wavelengths, magnetic fields, velocities and a few other things that were going on when the photons left the object.

It is “tempting” to “hop aboard the boat” of this or that speculation, but boats without firm planks tend to leak.  A “firm theoretical anchor” makes a leaky boat leak even faster. (Shango is trying to tell here in 2005 to look at the facts, the missing right show shoe, McDonald's pickup, The Times of these events. recoded facts that can be used to follow logic.)

The Moral of this story: keep the data distinct from the stories.  Collect watertight planks before setting out to sea.  The next publication could well reveal today’s Dutch Armada of blustering hype sinking under the violent onslaught of new observations.

[MumInOhio]

Caps
Up to this point in time I was able with much effort to follow you...now I am really lost.  I can't see this in Shango at all.  You have a much more creative thought process than I do. 

I see Simian as very simple...relating what was happening at the time within the ALE.  Shango is still a mystery on some things, but he's not that difficult to understand.  Don't get me wrong, I know nothing about Shango.  I have only been here for almost three years racking my brain trying to make it fit.  Some days you win....some days you lose.  I guess today I will say I lost...my mind over Shango. 

I peeked in last night and was lost...after coffee this morning....I'm still lost.....

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anna]

Record Album




Shango's Literary Depth

Marvel Comics

Try Issue 141/#4




Art Appreciation 101 might also be in order.

Source of many rumors including Freddie at family reunion and others:  Try Scubajap posting at RWV.  Wealth of misinformation in the early days.

[MumInOhio]

Thought this interesting when I came across it this morning. It had a familiar ring to it. the top post was from a forum thread and Simian's from the front page.

Reply #875 on: June 18, 2005, 07:53:23 PM »   
 
Come on guys how long did it take the whole federal security establishment to find Chandra Levy under their noses in DC, about the size of aruba, over a year?  If you can't find her you can't find her.  That is a possible outcome and a more likely one with each passing day.  Want to boycott DC too?
 

Simian’s first 3 posts I believe….
218.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xxBy the way, they found Levy’s remains a full year after she went missing. In a place where they did search numerous times. Give the authorities a chance. Maybe this girl doesn’t want to be found. Posted Jun 17, 5:23 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “BREAKING NEWS: 4th Person Arrested in Natalee Holloway case (CORRECTION NO 5th PERSON)” | View Post

219.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xxThey found them…do you know what happened? Condit has been cleared… Posted Jun 17, 5:20 PM | Edit Comment | Delete Comment | Edit Post “BREAKING NEWS: 4th Person Arrested in Natalee Holloway case (CORRECTION NO 5th PERSON)” | View Post

220.      Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xxWhy would anybody take this girl for the purpose of Sex Slavery? If you look up where Aruba is you will notice our proximity to South America. A lot of pretty girls and a lot of poverty. Why take an North American girl and sell her in Colombia? People don’t just dissappear. And if Amy Bradley was the last girl to dissappear in Aruba and Natalee after 7 years, I would say that these human traffickers really suck. By the way This thing will be solved. Maybe after this all the North Americans bashing Aruba here should focus on Chondra Levy. Nobody knows what happened to her and it’s been awhile. Maybe you can start a “Boycott Central Park” on-line petition.



Morning Anna...nice to 'see' you...

Caps I'm working on your 'facts'...I have a grand total of 3....if you count the shoes...some think he was wearing them during the Greta interview....

[Debra]

 

[MumInOhio]

LOL...is that for my benefit or Caps?

[Debra]

LOL...is that for my benefit or Caps?

.....Anna's post....

[MumInOhio]

Thanks Anna.....Guess I'll follow the music and scubajap....

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks Mum this is what I was looking for. My question is this, maybe you will know.  Note the date I highlighted and tell me does that mean he was arrested at that time too or what do you think?  If it means June 2005 as I read it, that is the unknown person that was rumored in all the news reports we couldn't put our finger on at the time.  The local Aruban posters kept saying they heard it on the radio, but if GVC is the person at the time...I missed it until now. What do you say? 


MumInOhio

   
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #729 2/11 -
« Reply #356 on: Today at 05:52:59 AM »
   
Lala's...here's the info on GVC and the tourist...maybe I should post in the Shango thread....I know you'll see it there....LOL

Prev. posted Feb.5th.

Here's the article about GVC...I just read at reihlworld that Nat's friends had seen her talking to GVC see bottom of page.

Interview With Cromvoirt Acquaintance
Though currently studying abroad, I was able to establish contact and do a brief phone interview with a young American girl acquainted with current detainee in the Natalee Holloway investigation, Geoffrey van Cromvoirt.

She is still somewhat shaken by news of his arrest, particularly as it was June 9th, 2005, the night Joran Van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers were arrested, when she met GVC at Carlos and Charlies. She was able to provide the day of the week, Thursday, which matches with the night of the three boys arrests. After speaking with her, I've no reason to doubt her veracity.

GVC was alone at Carlos and Charlies that night keeping mostly to himself. She could only remember him saying hello to one other person passing by that night in the club. After some initial eye contact, it was she who approached GVC. He immediately appeared to open up.

One item of possible interest, he told her that he worked during the day taking tourists out on a Catamaran. While I have no way of ascertaining it was the same catamaran, I do recall photos taken by the Mountain Brook students showing that they did take such a trip.

GVC struck her as something of a self promoter, constantly talking about himself, his many connections and his family's supposed wealth. She also recalled seeing images of some famous individuals he had stored in his cell phone, noting that GVC did not appear with those people in said pictures. Still, he insisted they were friends.

On another night, she may have been less receptive to the seemingly brash young man, but she found him attractive, she was on vacation and the two eventually danced. She indicated that there were no drugs involved, though both were drinking. At some point, GVC offered her a ride to her hotel and a male friend of the young woman went along.

GVC did apparently brag about being involved with security, trying to exert some pressure on a hotel guard to acknowledge who he was. The guard apparently failed to acknowledge him in any significant manner. She believes he was driving a jeep at the time, possibly blue and that he also mentioned a recent or pending purchase of a truck, color unknown.

Back at her hotel, it was decided that he would leave behind his ID and possibly some other wallet contents with her friends as security before the two went back out alone together. They spent approximately a half an hour or so together, primarily on the beach. The only potentially unusual thing she noticed during their time on the beach was that he might have been a bit nervous, looking about - at one point claiming he saw a security guard coming. She could not see a guard.

After some time on the beach his cell phone started ringing but he did not answer it. She believes it rang several times in succession, possibly as many as seven times. When she inquired about the calls, he stated that it was his Mother and that he had to get home. He kept reiterating, he had to go. She was puzzled at this as she believed him to be 19 years old at the time.

After a night of being extremely talkative, mostly about himself, she did eventually ask him in a casual way about the Natalee Holloway case. She feels very strongly that it was at that point his demeanor significantly changed. He almost completely stopped talking while the two were walking, swiftly now, back to her hotel.

She asked a few different questions ... if he knew of the case, of those involved, what was it that he thought. But he did not answer any of those questions, or change the topic. He mostly just stopped talking at all. They returned to her hotel, a friend brought down his things and that was the last she saw of him until his recent arrest. She felt he all but took off running, likely related to the phone calls, as he left.

Later after leaving the island, the interaction did leave her with a strange feeling, mostly because of his sudden silence when the topic of Natalee Holloway came up. Unsure if it meant anything, or not, eventually she did call the FBI. She gave them what information she could as regards the encounter, much of which I have now relayed here.

It remains unclear what, if any connection GVC has to the Holloway case. But at least one individual who spent some time with the boy soon after the disappearance was troubled enough about his demeanor simply talking about the case to make a call to the FBI.

I have agreed to keep her identity secret.


------------------------


According to what Holloway's friends have told authorities, the blond-haired, blue-eyed van Cromvoirt was seen with their classmate after she left van der Sloot - the pals say they saw them in the Holiday Inn casino together. But when the casino's video surveillance tapes were turned over to police, investigators could find no sign of Holloway and van Cromvoirt, the source noted.

Van Cromvoirt's father is the security expert in charge of video surveillance at the hotel.

Aruban authorities are also scrutinizing a surveillance tape taken earlier on May 30 that shows Holloway arguing with a light-haired young man in a jewelry store in the Wyndham Hotel, according to the source.