SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[sharon]

Not looking to Tango 

I just want to share a thought that came to me last night as I was reading all of the posts here.

The 'gamblers' knew the girl....and all the 'gambler's' references.....

The gamblers -- Joran, Paulus, Deepak, Guido, Andre Santos,his father, Elvis...

It's all right there. In your posts.

Yes, I have seen that as well.  Members of that little group were all gambling with on another for two straight days.  05/29 - Joran, Paulus, Andre and his father.  05/30 Joran, Andre, Guido and Deepak.

 

I was on this forum when Simian (and his entourage) and Shango were posting -- yet i still get a 'revelation' every now and then.

I do like to think about what they've said -- and try to fit it into what was going on at the time. What lies the skank, et al, were spreading at the time. Who was on the island. What searches were happening. Who was being questioned. etc.

I was looking through the pv's again yesterday (wanted to find where Santos said that Joran and Guido went back to the sloot house because Joran needed money) -- and i was reading here.....and it became clear to me WHO the gamblers were.

(after 2 years -- I feel a little 'not smart'. where's that embarrassed icon??)

[truthseeker2]

What would you be discussing as of substance to this case? Please list this for me as I am obviously missing your point. Again, if you go with your premise then anything that is not verifiable as a definite fact does not fit your criteria. Then please refrain from discussing the Aru Bay videos, the witness statement of the gardener, some think it's unreliable also. Which PV of Joran's would you choose to discard?  The first lie or the subsequent ones that we know contain various lies and inconsistencies.  If you think one is a lie then all are a lie.  I happen to think there is a grain of truth in each of them. Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.  Maybe that is why this case hasn't been solved?  No one has bothered to nit pick the details to uncover the truth. 

In case you didn't notice this is the Shango/Simian thread.  That is why it's here to analyze these riddles and posts.  If you seek anything other than clarity of these two maybe you should try posting on the LCD.  They discuss more than just Shango over there. Beware though, we talk Simian and Shango there also. 

As you say, this is the Shango/Simian thread and my comments in this thread express believes about the contents and possible motives behind both these characters.

The first comment I made in this thread pertained to the desired evolvement of the proposed discussion, or “who are they and what did they know”.  I expressed thinking that Simian reported inside information with personal views and opinions added, and that Shango was a quack.

From the perspective of my assumptions about them, it doesn’t make sense to continue to discuss Lorenzo as a potential suspect.  Available information from the Simian, ALE, the press, other Aruba posters, pretty much indicate that the night Natalee disappeared he was the host of a party, that he was there “whole time” and that many can attest to that.  In addition, I assume that if by any minimal chance there was indication that Natalee was at the rave, Beth, Dave or another pro-Natalee meaningful source would have publicly made mention of it.

With respect to your comment “Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.”, I agree, it would be an absurdity.  In reality we don’t know anything.  We discuss things we think happened or could have happened, based on limited, doubtful, biased, or freely interpreted S & S posts.

My purpose is not to antagonize you, or Lala’s Mom or anyone else.  In theses discussions I think we will agree on some, disagree on others (or most).  If the intention is to hold an earnest exchange of views based on personal perspectives as opposed to views within the social contexts of the collectivity, the discussions will be good, and prosper, whether in agreement or disagreement.  But if not, it will most likely die or evolve into repetitive chitchat.

"My purpose is not to antagonize you, or Lala’s Mom or anyone else."

Since you were responding to Lala's Mom should I assume you thought you were responding to someone else?  Either way, I would like to respond.

"From the perspective of my assumptions about them, it doesn’t make sense to continue to discuss Lorenzo as a potential suspect.  Available information from the Simian, ALE, the press, other Aruba posters, pretty much indicate that the night Natalee disappeared he was the host of a party, that he was there “whole time” and that many can attest to that."

I think the reason we keep discussing Lorenzo is because many believe he was the 5th suspect based the posts and on the daily events at that time.  Simian refers to the person believed to be Loreanzo here:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying.
There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?
Lucy on June 22nd, 2005 6:01 pm
Simian
Possible alibis (or alibies) for #5:
Was in jail for DUI of illegal substances
Was filming himself
Was making a delivery
Was in Curaçao
Was painting his truck in Savaneta
None of the above


Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “the whole time”.

On June 23rd, 2006 we see this headline from CNN:

Judge arrested in Aruba case
Fifth suspect in custody after U.S. teen's disappearance

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/23/aruba.holloway/index.html



While he tells Lucy she is wrong to suspect Lorenzo, Simian returns to the idea that a party was held and they "were all at the party".  Simian nor Shango provided any insight to any other parties going on that were related to Natalee's disappearance.  So why post about a party again four days later?...When Paulus is being released from jail?


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads.
One of them needs to be pinched.


So...one 5th suspect is Lorenzo based on Simain's posts and the other 5th suspect is Paulus according the information we see on CNN.  If you believe Simian's 'informed' posts do you believe Lorenzo or Paulus to be the 5th suspect?  The "boyfriend from earlier in the week" does not seem to fit Paulus, but I guess we would need to understand Simian's context for such a word, and we don't have that information.

Your thoughts?........

[Lala'sMom]

What would you be discussing as of substance to this case? Please list this for me as I am obviously missing your point. Again, if you go with your premise then anything that is not verifiable as a definite fact does not fit your criteria. Then please refrain from discussing the Aru Bay videos, the witness statement of the gardener, some think it's unreliable also. Which PV of Joran's would you choose to discard?  The first lie or the subsequent ones that we know contain various lies and inconsistencies.  If you think one is a lie then all are a lie.  I happen to think there is a grain of truth in each of them. Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.  Maybe that is why this case hasn't been solved?  No one has bothered to nit pick the details to uncover the truth. 

In case you didn't notice this is the Shango/Simian thread.  That is why it's here to analyze these riddles and posts.  If you seek anything other than clarity of these two maybe you should try posting on the LCD.  They discuss more than just Shango over there. Beware though, we talk Simian and Shango there also. 

As you say, this is the Shango/Simian thread and my comments in this thread express believes about the contents and possible motives behind both these characters.

The first comment I made in this thread pertained to the desired evolvement of the proposed discussion, or “who are they and what did they know”.  I expressed thinking that Simian reported inside information with personal views and opinions added, and that Shango was a quack.

From the perspective of my assumptions about them, it doesn’t make sense to continue to discuss Lorenzo as a potential suspect.  Available information from the Simian, ALE, the press, other Aruba posters, pretty much indicate that the night Natalee disappeared he was the host of a party, that he was there “whole time” and that many can attest to that.  In addition, I assume that if by any minimal chance there was indication that Natalee was at the rave, Beth, Dave or another pro-Natalee meaningful source would have publicly made mention of it.

With respect to your comment “Oh yes, let's please refrain from any discussion of things we only think happened and concentrate on only what we know.”, I agree, it would be an absurdity.  In reality we don’t know anything.  We discuss things we think happened or could have happened, based on limited, doubtful, biased, or freely interpreted S & S posts.

My purpose is not to antagonize you, or Lala’s Mom or anyone else.  In theses discussions I think we will agree on some, disagree on others (or most).  If the intention is to hold an earnest exchange of views based on personal perspectives as opposed to views within the social contexts of the collectivity, the discussions will be good, and prosper, whether in agreement or disagreement.  But if not, it will most likely die or evolve into repetitive chitchat.

Why not continue to discuss Lorenzo as a suspect.  He clearly was such when they went to his house and searched.  I must be missing something here.

[truthseeker2]

Let's not confuse the identity quest of the poster of that time. 

Bablu posted this to Shango, to which Shango did not reply:

Babalú on June 26th, 2005 9:47 pm
Shango
I read something about ganbanging a 14 yr. old tourist and filming it. But this was not attributed to the duo of Babylonians, but to another group of kids, including Van Rijn, Aredszetc.

Simian chose to respond in this manner:

Simian on June 26th, 2005 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.

Interesting when you read this because Simian chided Babalu about his attempt to name 'Babylonians', yet Simian only tried to leave a Shango clue in "The gamblers knew the girl".  Simian does not try to id the Babylonians.

Shango confirmed the statement of Babalu here:

Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

and again:

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting


based on Bablu's post of:

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Shango confirms this again when responding to Drax:

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

who posted:

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

At know time did Shango provide an affirmative response to the question of Dirty Hand expect to Babalu.

From reading your selection of Shango comments and related responses,

First, we have that Babalu was a clueless, wild guesser.

Second, we have Shango prompting readers to think that Babalu, the clueless guesser, finally figured out what he was trying to convey.  Babalu “determined” one or more of the following:

-   Dirty Hand is head of some “official corps”.
-   Dirty Hand knows everything.
-   Dirty Hand has been in the house of Babylonians not seeking pleasure for himself.
-   Dirty Hand maybe went to search for Natalee at the house of Babylonians.
-   Dirty hand is the “Chief of Polis”.

Third, we have Shango confirming Drax that DirtyHand is poppa VDS.

For all practical purposes, from Shango’s responses we may have concluded that he meant that the house of Babylonians is a place where people in Aruba seek pleasure, but Dirty Hand didn’t, because he just went there looking for Natalee.  But the generality -including myself- chose to infer at that moment in time that “Dirty Hand is the Chief of Polis” and “Poppa VDS” is Poppa Van der Straten.  These two choices fitted the story better as most of us saw it back then.

Shango was mocking Simian and making fools out of us information avid posters.

Sorry, I don't find all of what you have here as practical.  I would not seem at all practical to consider "Poppa VDS" is Poppa Van Der Straten, since his parental status had not been questioned anywhere at that time, and has been questioned very little since.

As far as the clueless Babalu...well, even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then if he roots around long enough.

[sharon]

(snipped)

For all practical purposes, from Shango’s responses we may have concluded that he meant that the house of Babylonians is a place where people in Aruba seek pleasure, but Dirty Hand didn’t, because he just went there looking for Natalee.   But the generality -including myself- chose to infer at that moment in time that “Dirty Hand is the Chief of Polis” and “Poppa VDS” is Poppa Van der Straten.  These two choices fitted the story better as most of us saw it back then.

Shango was mocking Simian and making fools out of us information avid posters.

Actually, that was never my interpretation of 'not seeking pleasure'.

I leaned more towards -- either he provided security to the places (rather than seeking pleasure) or, the one I really felt 'warmest to' was that he made the drug or money or 'female' drop offs and pick ups and payoffs (rather than seeking pleasure).

But I do agree that Shango was mocking Simian. And it appeared obvious to me, that Shango 'materialized' to confront Simian.

But it's all just my humble opinion.

I don't 'know' anything.

Other than Natalee Holloway was seen driving away from CnC with J2K and has NEVER BEEN SEEN OR HEARD FROM AGAIN BY ANONE IN HER FAMILY OR CIRCLE OF FRIENDS since that time

[Lala'sMom]

Good Afternoon to all the shango/simian fans.

I have a couple questions. As most of you know I am not a shango/simian follower, but don't knock anyone who is.

If either knew anything,(and I am not saying they did or didn't know anything),  why the mumbo jumbo? why not just tell what they knew, collect the reward and help obtain justice.

And why did they disappear?

I am interested in reading what you think about these questions.  TIA

Sorry it has taken me so long to answer your question.  I am really not sure if either of these two characters knew anything or not.  The only thing I have to go by is occurrences that things said by Simian or Shango can be tied to things that we NOW know in the case.  Before we had the PV from witnesses and suspects I couldn't make any headway with any of it. Still I have made little headway.  It is similar to the frustration I feel trying to see Natalee in those Aru Bay videos.  I know exactly how everyone feels when I talk about Shango, because to this day I am not sure if I have actually seen anything or not. 

Concerning Shango...I won't say what I truly think...no one would believe me after all this time anyway, but let's just say that the only thing I have been able to truly understand about Shango is his/her knowledge of certain religious practices and characters in a comic book. Obviously Shango was a real person that Simian claims to have known.  They fought with each other. They wanted to one up the other one. 

Shango told of the corruption among the ALE and the Dutch as well as the stories of the parties and drugs.  We know now that is a reality.  I have read much of the early archives and see that not only did Shango know this, so do many others in Aruba.  It was a hush hush situation that most wanted to be kept secret. If Shango is on the up and up, then I would not want to be found out as the person that told of this big secret that Aruba had so cleverly kept for years.  Money laundering, drugs, prostitution, etc.

Simian, on the other hand, was all ALE.  Never once saying anything bad concerning the way the investigation was being handled.  Leaving hints as to their ability to have inside info just ahead of the news media.  Simian began with the intention of saying it wasn't because of corruption this investigation is out of hand, but because the family was obstructing things and wouldn't tell the truth.  It's there at the very beginning.  Then Simian began to see something wasn't right.  Things were not as they seem.  It could have been from other exchanges between the Arubans on the FP at the time or something else he/she saw or heard while being on the inside. I can't really say.  Simian had the closer inside track than Shango.  Simian eventually gets frustrated with all the accusations of cover up and corruption and turns back to the original premise that the answers lie in Mountain Brook and finally leaves a bit frustrated. 

Personally, I don't think either of them ever really left.  They just morphed into other names and in other places.  I read things all the time that I would most certainly think was written by Simian or Shango because of certain phrases or words they use.  The dialect does not change, everyone uses certain words and it becomes a habit that is not easily broken because it's part of your personality and manner of speech. For instance, Beth says "you know" at the beginning of many of her sentences.  She has been criticized for it as being Southern, but it's her way of speaking just as my saying "anyway".  It's a natural thing that is not easy to prevent unless you are consciously thinking about it.  Hope I haven't confused you even more. Thanks for asking the question.

[Lala'sMom]

(snipped)

For all practical purposes, from Shango’s responses we may have concluded that he meant that the house of Babylonians is a place where people in Aruba seek pleasure, but Dirty Hand didn’t, because he just went there looking for Natalee.   But the generality -including myself- chose to infer at that moment in time that “Dirty Hand is the Chief of Polis” and “Poppa VDS” is Poppa Van der Straten.  These two choices fitted the story better as most of us saw it back then.

Shango was mocking Simian and making fools out of us information avid posters.

Actually, that was never my interpretation of 'not seeking pleasure'.

I leaned more towards -- either he provided security to the places (rather than seeking pleasure) or, the one I really felt 'warmest to' was that he made the drug or money or 'female' drop offs and pick ups and payoffs (rather than seeking pleasure).

But I do agree that Shango was mocking Simian. And it appeared obvious to me, that Shango 'materialized' to confront Simian.

But it's all just my humble opinion.

I don't 'know' anything.

Other than Natalee Holloway was seen driving away from CnC with J2K and has NEVER BEEN SEEN OR HEARD FROM AGAIN BY ANONE IN HER FAMILY OR CIRCLE OF FRIENDS since that time

Very good. 

[Lala'sMom]

Since this is the Shango thread I am going to throw out some ideas that have been presented by other code talkers.  You may or may not agree, but I think they should be known that there are other ways of interpreting this stuff besides what I think. I thought of it after Sharon's post above.

Other code talkers think...

Dirty Hand is actually Mickey John.  They think he was working for the elders to provide that security that Sharon spoke of.  This is a touchy subject, but you know me, I think all ideas should be out there and then it is left to others to dispute one way or the other.  (Thus I have tolerated some insane comments about Shango and Simian to this day. Not yours Sharon, someone else.)  A poster named Eleye and Colombo seriously thought that Mickey John was involved. That he knew much more than he said and that is the reason that neither he nor the other guard has ever been able to collect any money for their false imprisonment. If you look at it that way, it does make sense. 

The 5th suspect is Paulus van der Sloot.  That Paulus was the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.  Eleye clearly thought this and argued this point with me many times. He had very good reasons for saying that and although I tried without success, he stuck with his assumptions. As of this moment, I can't say for sure what the deal is.  It was a revolting thought to me...that Natalee would have been interested in that older man.  I truly do not see that in any way possible, but I am only speculating also. So to each his own.  If there is someone that can prove it...I will believe it.

Joran was not involved after leaving Natalee with the elders.  He should be absolved because he was just doing as he was told by others more powerful than he was.  That is why he states he will tell the truth one day. Maybe he was a scapegoat and left her with men more evil than he was, I can't truly say.  It would help to explain why Paulus has gone to such lengths to protect his son...he knows he was TOLD to do this and most likely Paulus was part of the TELLING. 

So take this for what it's worth, which if you dislike Shango is not much. 

[sharon]

lala's   

The idea of 'security' guard came from those you are referring to

I thought that was a possibility -- but I didn't think it was Mickey John.
 
IMO -- VanderStraaten or Odoobie or even the little leprechaun would fit that mold as well.  The chief of Police, or mayor or some official -- providing security for these types of private parties-- and getting 'paid' for it -- it probably one of the oldest forms of corruption on earth.

I think I even saw it on GunSmoke 

[Stom]

"My purpose is not to antagonize you, or Lala’s Mom or anyone else."

Since you were responding to Lala's Mom should I assume you thought you were responding to someone else?  Either way, I would like to respond.

I was replying to you, but apparently I erased the wrong quote marker.

I think the reason we keep discussing Lorenzo is because many believe he was the 5th suspect based the posts and on the daily events at that time.  Simian refers to the person believed to be Loreanzo here...

So...one 5th suspect is Lorenzo based on Simain's posts and the other 5th suspect is Paulus according the information we see on CNN.  If you believe Simian's 'informed' posts do you believe Lorenzo or Paulus to be the 5th suspect?  The "boyfriend from earlier in the week" does not seem to fit Paulus, but I guess we would need to understand Simian's context for such a word, and we don't have that information.

Your thoughts?........

I agree.  After initial suspects 1 & 2 were released and the counting restarted with Joran, it continued with Kalpoe, Kalpoe and Croes.  So according to the Simian on June 22nd PM, in the Front Pages of Scared Monkeys, the 5th suspect was Lorenzo van Rijn.

The 5th suspect is a relative designation, depending on where and when.  There is no need to force the 5th suspect issue as a unique universal proposal, as long as one is aware of two different instances and two different sets of circumstances.

CNN, Fox, other media outlets were not following our tempo at the Front Page, but they knew that Joran, Deepak, Satish and Seferino were behind bars, on suspicion of murder.  So when Paulus was arrested in the early afternoon of June 23rd, he became the 5th suspect, one day after the Simian declared Lorenzo van Rijn the 5th suspect on Scared Monkeys.

While he tells Lucy she is wrong to suspect Lorenzo, Simian returns to the idea that a party was held and they "were all at the party".  Simian nor Shango provided any insight to any other parties going on that were related to Natalee's disappearance.  So why post about a party again four days later?...When Paulus is being released from jail?

I'll try to guess… On the evening of June 25th, the Simian comments suggest that he anticipated a grand finale… ALE was masterfully and carefully planning the “legal checkmate”, given Paulus’ knowledge around “the palace”.  At that point in time, to him, Joran was guilty.  He also stated that the Hindus didn’t know what went on, implying that the Kalpoes were innocent.

On the afternoon of June 26th, one can perceive that the Simian’s enthusiasm is all gone, he projects himself as being somewhat defeatist as to ALE’s capacity to resolve the situation.

_{Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.}

A few minutes down the road, his pessimism continues… he suggests that ALE has the hands tight and shifts responsibility to the courts.  He brings up the subject of the partygoers again.

<sub>Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-goers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

The question at this moment should be, whose alibi has to be broken?  He is talking about Paulus knowledge of the palace, so I am going to assume he was referring to Joran’s alibi, not Lorenzo’s.</sub>

After June 26th, the Simian began to lose control.  He began to react adversely to Shango’s mockery and there were too many things happening at the same time.  As he said, the island was “stiring”.  The Simian was probably stirring too. He abandoned his customary manner of presenting comments, adopted a somewhat Shangoan style and opened up his range of diffusion of information, in all possible directions, as if he were trying to cover all possibilities.  An all-the-possibilities strategy explains his bringing back the pinch-the-partygoers and need-to-break-the-alibi proposals, as well as his mistaken announcements of Natalee being found in Moko and the arrival of the package from The Hague.

I doubt the Simian posted the following comment, but if he did, then it was a third well intended statement based on false knowledge:

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Her decapitated body to be found.
Her head to wash up on shore later.

[Stom]

Sorry, I don't find all of what you have here as practical.  ^{I would not seem at all practical to consider "Poppa VDS" is Poppa Van Der Straten},

Then there was no confirmation that DirtyHand was Van der Straten.

[sharon]

STom

iirc, klaas has indicated that the 'decapitated head' (and the washing to shore) Simian posts were NOT legit.

That's funny. Legitimacy and Simian in the same post

[Lala'sMom]

lala's   

The idea of 'security' guard came from those you are referring to

I thought that was a possibility -- but I didn't think it was Mickey John.
 
IMO -- VanderStraaten or Odoobie or even the little leprechaun would fit that mold as well.  The chief of Police, or mayor or some official -- providing security for these types of private parties-- and getting 'paid' for it -- it probably one of the oldest forms of corruption on earth.

I think I even saw it on GunSmoke 

 

[Stom]

But it's all just my humble opinion.

I don't 'know' anything.

You know more than most.  Congratulations!

[Stom]

The 5th suspect is Paulus van der Sloot.  That Paulus was the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.  Eleye clearly thought this and argued this point with me many times. He had very good reasons for saying that and although I tried without success, he stuck with his assumptions. As of this moment, I can't say for sure what the deal is.  It was a revolting thought to me...that Natalee would have been interested in that older man.  I truly do not see that in any way possible, but I am only speculating also. So to each his own.  If there is someone that can prove it...I will believe it.

Lala'sMom,

Paulus was in Holland.  He arrived Sunday afternoon, before going to the Casino with Joran.  He couldn't have been the boyfriend from earlier in the week, if there was ever any.

[sharon]

lala's   

The idea of 'security' guard came from those you are referring to

I thought that was a possibility -- but I didn't think it was Mickey John.
 
IMO -- VanderStraaten or Odoobie or even the little leprechaun would fit that mold as well.  The chief of Police, or mayor or some official -- providing security for these types of private parties-- and getting 'paid' for it -- it probably one of the oldest forms of corruption on earth.

I think I even saw it on GunSmoke 

 

You're too young to have watched GunSmoke?
 
Or you don't agree with me?

 

[truthseeker2]

Sorry, I don't find all of what you have here as practical.  ^{I would not seem at all practical to consider "Poppa VDS" is Poppa Van Der Straten},

Then there was no confirmation that DirtyHand was Van der Straten.

I still believe that Shango confirmed that Dirty Hand was the Chief of Polis.  Was that not Van Der Straten's title?  Or did that title belong to someone else...Dompig, Bernardin (sp?)?

[truthseeker2]

On the afternoon of June 26th, one can perceive that the Simian’s enthusiasm is all gone, he projects himself as being somewhat defeatist as to ALE’s capacity to resolve the situation.

_{Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.}

A few minutes down the road, his pessimism continues… he suggests that ALE has the hands tight and shifts responsibility to the courts.  He brings up the subject of the partygoers again.

<sub>Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-goers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

The question at this moment should be, whose alibi has to be broken?  He is talking about Paulus knowledge of the palace, so I am going to assume he was referring to Joran’s alibi, not Lorenzo’s.</sub>

After June 26th, the Simian began to lose control.  He began to react adversely to Shango’s mockery and there were too many things happening at the same time.  As he said, the island was “stiring”.  The Simian was probably stirring too. He abandoned his customary manner of presenting comments, adopted a somewhat Shangoan style and opened up his range of diffusion of information, in all possible directions, as if he were trying to cover all possibilities.  An all-the-possibilities strategy explains his bringing back the pinch-the-partygoers and need-to-break-the-alibi proposals, as well as his mistaken announcements of Natalee being found in Moko and the arrival of the package from The Hague.

I doubt the Simian posted the following comment, but if he did, then it was a third well intended statement based on false knowledge:

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Her decapitated body to be found.
Her head to wash up on shore later.

I see the path you are taking and would also entertain taking it a little further in the direction of the preceeding post by Simian which appears to be his first of the day:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.


His very next post is about the TES search (imo) and Paulus and possilby a warning to Shango who just made his first post questioning Simian:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
The last hope rests on the shoulders of the cowboys. Ten days, two down, eight to go.
The elder knows the passages in the palace too well. The Babylonians are afraid they might
not be able to stop him.
Don’t shake the wire, ‘cause the bird will fy away.


He then goes directly to:

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block.
The alibi needs to be broken. The party-go-ers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes.
The house was dusted.


Which is in repsonse to a post carried over from ShockTheMonkey"

chimes on June 26th, 2005 1:24 pm
From 1188’s thread… ShocktheMonkey Says:

June 25th, 2005 at 9:08 pm
To my faithful believers:

This may be my last post. But I’ll tell you what’s going on. The younger VDS did it. No admission of guilt yet, but witnesses to prove. Awaiting DNA results to confirm will be soon. Two more possible arrests. DJ was the “Vessel�. Sorry for cryptic message, but my job is on the line. Still I remain true to you bloggers and the truth shall set us free. A mystery is only as mysterious as the mind allows it to be. Sometimes the truth is right in front of your face …

As you read these in the order in which they are posted, therefore it does not appear that he is speaking about the same person in any of the three consecutive posts.  There is nothing sequential about these consecutive posts, therefore, I still contend that references being made regarding a party or the party-goers is a reference to the 5th suspect because that is the only person connected to a party of any kind...

Does this make any sense?

[klaasend]

The 5th suspect is Paulus van der Sloot.  That Paulus was the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.  Eleye clearly thought this and argued this point with me many times. He had very good reasons for saying that and although I tried without success, he stuck with his assumptions. As of this moment, I can't say for sure what the deal is.  It was a revolting thought to me...that Natalee would have been interested in that older man.  I truly do not see that in any way possible, but I am only speculating also. So to each his own.  If there is someone that can prove it...I will believe it.

Lala'sMom,

Paulus was in Holland.  He arrived Sunday afternoon, before going to the Casino with Joran.  He couldn't have been the boyfriend from earlier in the week, if there was ever any.

Excellent point. I still say Lorenzo is the 5th.

[Lala'sMom]

The 5th suspect is Paulus van der Sloot.  That Paulus was the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.  Eleye clearly thought this and argued this point with me many times. He had very good reasons for saying that and although I tried without success, he stuck with his assumptions. As of this moment, I can't say for sure what the deal is.  It was a revolting thought to me...that Natalee would have been interested in that older man.  I truly do not see that in any way possible, but I am only speculating also. So to each his own.  If there is someone that can prove it...I will believe it.

Lala'sMom,

Paulus was in Holland.  He arrived Sunday afternoon, before going to the Casino with Joran.  He couldn't have been the boyfriend from earlier in the week, if there was ever any.

That's what I have been saying all this time.