SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[JE]

5th Suspect and Dirty Hand....LOL

I have seen more than my share of theories, but let's look at them...

Dirty Hand possibilities:
Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Ben Vocking
Paulus van der Sloot
Ronny Bernadina
Karen Jansen
I have even seen the SG mentioned as DH and also Nelson Oduber. 

5th Suspect possibilities:
Freddy Abrambatizs
Steve Croes
Lorenzo van Rijn or Gijn
Koen or Sander Gottenbos
Paulus van der Sloot
Geoffrey van Cromvoit
I have even seen Joran, Jaime and Val mentioned.

So there you have it...just a few of the usual suspects.  So which ones fit???  I wish Caps would weigh in with his thoughts too.

Based on times suspects (not witnesses) were arrested, not counting the two black security guards it would have to be GVC, otherwise it would the three original perps, Joran would fall fifth.  There are two fifth suspects, actually and both seem to fill the bill.  Maybe there are supposed to be two fifth suspects.    Jack b

When was GVC arrested? 

april 2006?

[COLOMBO]

154.   Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Great couple of lines.......Simian knew. I almost exclusively read Shango , so a few of Simians thoughts are new to me.

I am curious about the word WALTZING away since some of this says "follow the music."
Were any of them into some type Dance?  j/b

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:50 pm
Are insects conned into entering Venus Flytraps?

[MumInOhio]

Just to put a spanner in the works…I believe from reading the posts of the day from a couple of forums, that this arrest happened and was retracted…so the question would be…who was it?

First date was June 10th. at 9.38am.

Sorry to repost, but we have new tangoers!

Lala’s…I just read that 2 brothers and a Columbian were questioned on the 16th.!


the link is no longer available.

www.nbc4i.com/news/4593143/detail.html

Another Arrest Made In Case Of Missing Ala. Teen
POSTED: 9:38 am EDT June 10, 2005
UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT June 11, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Police in Aruba investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager made another arrest early Saturday. It comes just hours after police said one of three men recently arrested admitted "something bad had happened" to Natalee Holloway.

Police aren't commenting on the latest arrest, which was the sixth since Holloway went missing May 30.

Late Friday, one of three young men who took Holloway to the beach during her class trip to Aruba said "something bad happened" to her, police said.

The three men arrested by Aruban police early Thursday morning had been designated "persons of interest" in the case and were detained soon after Natalee Holloway's disappearance. Police officials questioned the trio, and then released them back to their families.

And more…..

This one from the AP about the same arrest:
By MICHAEL NORTON, Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Police investigating the disappearance of an Alabama honors student in Aruba arrested a man at dawn Saturday, hours after one of three young men already in custody admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach.

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

And then I posted:
OK....I just read that the arrest I posted above was NOT related to Natalee!

Next I posted:
Same arrest....now it didn't happen!

by Norman 'Gus' Thomas
Caribbean Net News Senior Regional Correspondent
E-mail: rc@caribbeannetnews.com
Saturday, June 11, 2005ORANJESTAD, Aruba:

Law enforcement officials in Aruba are calling recent reports coming out of the USA in relation to the disappearance of an Alabama teenager as "untrue and misleading." 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished May 29 after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub.

According to US reports, police in Aruba arrested a man on Saturday morning, after one of a trio that was previously held reportedly told police "something bad happened to her".

CNN's 2:00 pm report on Saturday stated that a senior police officer had told them that one of the three men arrested had confessed to killing Halloway.

Aruba police told Caribbean Net News Saturday that they have been engaged in an unsuccessful island-wide search for Holloway, who had come to the island with 124 other students from the USA to celebrate their graduation from Mountain Brook High School.

Caribbean Net News contacted CNN Headline News in Atlanta who said that they have reporters on the ground in Aruba and were adamant that they are sticking by their story.

However, officials in Aruba maintain that no confession was made and there has been no other arrest apart from the five made earlier.

According to one US report, police this morning visited a home on the outskirts of the capital city of Oranjestad and were later seen coming from the house with a young man wearing handcuffs, but the Aruba police have also denied this.

However, police did confirm to Caribbean Net News that, of the arrested trio, two are brothers and hail from Suriname while the other is a 17-year-old Dutchman who is the son of a top member of Aruba's legal circle.

[Lala'sMom]

Just to put a spanner in the works…I believe from reading the posts of the day from a couple of forums, that this arrest happened and was retracted…so the question would be…who was it?

First date was June 10th. at 9.38am.

Sorry to repost, but we have new tangoers!

Lala’s…I just read that 2 brothers and a Columbian were questioned on the 16th.!


the link is no longer available.

www.nbc4i.com/news/4593143/detail.html

Another Arrest Made In Case Of Missing Ala. Teen
POSTED: 9:38 am EDT June 10, 2005
UPDATED: 9:34 am EDT June 11, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Police in Aruba investigating the disappearance of an Alabama teenager made another arrest early Saturday. It comes just hours after police said one of three men recently arrested admitted "something bad had happened" to Natalee Holloway.

Police aren't commenting on the latest arrest, which was the sixth since Holloway went missing May 30.

Late Friday, one of three young men who took Holloway to the beach during her class trip to Aruba said "something bad happened" to her, police said.

The three men arrested by Aruban police early Thursday morning had been designated "persons of interest" in the case and were detained soon after Natalee Holloway's disappearance. Police officials questioned the trio, and then released them back to their families.

And more…..

This one from the AP about the same arrest:
By MICHAEL NORTON, Associated Press Writer

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - Police investigating the disappearance of an Alabama honors student in Aruba arrested a man at dawn Saturday, hours after one of three young men already in custody admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach.

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

And then I posted:
OK....I just read that the arrest I posted above was NOT related to Natalee!

Next I posted:
Same arrest....now it didn't happen!

by Norman 'Gus' Thomas
Caribbean Net News Senior Regional Correspondent
E-mail: rc@caribbeannetnews.com
Saturday, June 11, 2005ORANJESTAD, Aruba:

Law enforcement officials in Aruba are calling recent reports coming out of the USA in relation to the disappearance of an Alabama teenager as "untrue and misleading." 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished May 29 after leaving an Oranjestad nightclub.

According to US reports, police in Aruba arrested a man on Saturday morning, after one of a trio that was previously held reportedly told police "something bad happened to her".

CNN's 2:00 pm report on Saturday stated that a senior police officer had told them that one of the three men arrested had confessed to killing Halloway.

Aruba police told Caribbean Net News Saturday that they have been engaged in an unsuccessful island-wide search for Holloway, who had come to the island with 124 other students from the USA to celebrate their graduation from Mountain Brook High School.

Caribbean Net News contacted CNN Headline News in Atlanta who said that they have reporters on the ground in Aruba and were adamant that they are sticking by their story.

However, officials in Aruba maintain that no confession was made and there has been no other arrest apart from the five made earlier.

According to one US report, police this morning visited a home on the outskirts of the capital city of Oranjestad and were later seen coming from the house with a young man wearing handcuffs, but the Aruba police have also denied this.

However, police did confirm to Caribbean Net News that, of the arrested trio, two are brothers and hail from Suriname while the other is a 17-year-old Dutchman who is the son of a top member of Aruba's legal circle.

Brothers?  Sander and Koen??? Columbian??? Jaime

[Lala'sMom]

Oops!  Maybe I didn't mean Jaime...he's Brazilian, right?  I meant Freddy.   If you look at the Dr. Phil documents....Koen Sander and Freddy are questioned on June 16th.  Sorry about that.

[truthseeker2]

Interesting.....Freddy was first 'interviewed' on Sunday June 12 at 11:05am, according to the spreadsheet that Grande was able to put together, Freddy was the only interview that day.  At least as far as we can tell from the list of documents from the Dr. Phil case.

This from Deepak's June 11 statement at 12:10 hours:

I also have to tell you that Joran was wearing white sneakers/sport shoes that night. If you search/investigate his home then you will see that the shoes aren't there. He had told me that he had theft them on the beach.
To your question whether I of if Joran told the story to someone else,   than I can say the following. I know Joran told his story to his friend named Freddy ZEDAN. Freddy lives behind Joran. His mobile phone number is inside my mobile phone.

To your question whether Joran told me what he had told Freddy, I can say the following. Joran told me that he had told Freddy the truth and the story that was made up. I know that he trusts Freddy more because they have known each other for a long time. If you go and talk to Freddy, he will tell you the made up story and maybe also the truth.

So...When, exactly, so they think a confession was made?  June 10th or 11th?  We know it was before June 12th and Freddy was not interviewed until June 12th.

[COLOMBO]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4430010&page=1

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

All along the gamblers knew who he was. (George Fox #9?)

[MumInOhio]

Jaime was the 17th.???

Name: Florencia Mets
Date: 16 June 2005 / 19:10
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Ghrizanti Tromp
Description:

Name: Koen Gottenbos
Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:15
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of a friend of the Kalpoe's and Van der Sloot

Name: Sander Gottenbos
Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:10
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Clyde Burke
Description: witness statement (brother of Koen Gottenbos)

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

[Lala'sMom]

Also Paulus gave a statement on June 18 right after Steve Croes was arrested.  In he is talking about Freddy...

Freddy had told this story shortly after he was interviewed by the police. He had called my wife and had said that he found it important to tell the truth. After that he came over to us and he first talked to my wife. After that he came back one time and and he spoke with Joran's lawyer, his parents, me and my wife were also present. My wife and myself were very saddened and angry at Joran for apparently not telling us the truth. My wife and the lawyer then confronted Joran about this. According to my wife Joran reacted calmly and said that he had always told Freddy the truth.

It is clear that Paulus is trying to distance himself from the "no body, no case" comments also:

To your question whether my son asked if no body would be found that there would be no case, I can state the following. I cannot remember Joran having asked me this. I have said on several occasions that if the girl were not found, this could pose a problem for them, on top of that would be the uncertainty whether a crime and what crime had been committed.


Mum...this goes back to our Zeolla discussion...too bad those pages before that are missing in Paulus PV...

spoken. With some friends who visited us we undoubtedly spoke about this because it was on our minds too. Some of our friends are members of  “Friends of Aruba” and were closely involved with the search for the girl.

[Lala'sMom]

Jaime was the 17th.???

Name: Florencia Mets
Date: 16 June 2005 / 19:10
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus & Ghrizanti Tromp
Description:

Name: Koen Gottenbos
Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:15
Pages: 10
Writer/Initiator: Luigi Croes & Juan Boezem
Description: witness statement of a friend of the Kalpoe's and Van der Sloot

Name: Sander Gottenbos
Date: 16 June 2005 / 17:10
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: Shaniro Kelly & Clyde Burke
Description: witness statement (brother of Koen Gottenbos)

Name: Freddy Alexander Arambatzis
Date: 16 June 2005115:30
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator: Dennis Jacobs & Marcelino Ras
Description: witness statement

I told you I was sorry...I had things mixed up. LOL

[JE]

Remember that when counting suspects the security guards had already been released before Simian made his pronouncement on June 22nd. Therefore you would not count them in the mix. That leaves:

Deepak
Satish
Joran
Steve
And whoever that person was that was arrested right after Steve Croes.

 There is a person, we just do not know who it was.  Mum thinks it was Freddy, I think it was Lorenzo.  Why? Because we find evidence that these two were questioned somewhere along this time line and before Paulus was arrested on the 22 or 23rd.  Some have said Lorenzo was questioned on the 16th...that is after the guards were released and before Paulus was arrested and if true...right before Simian began posting...Freddy also fits in this same scenario too...much more  indication that he was questioned as a possible suspect before Lorenzo.  The rumor on the blogs and on Aruba, as relayed by various posters there, was it was Lorenzo....but I have nothing to prove that as of yet.  I welcome evidence to the contrary....I would like to eliminate one or both of these two if I could.

The first time paulus was brought in for a 4 hour interrogation was on saturday june 18th (he was running from reporters when leaving the police station)

[Lala'sMom]

Paulus gave a statement on June 14...wouldn't you like to read that one?  I bet it's totally different than the June 18 one.

[Lala'sMom]

Remember that when counting suspects the security guards had already been released before Simian made his pronouncement on June 22nd. Therefore you would not count them in the mix. That leaves:

Deepak
Satish
Joran
Steve
And whoever that person was that was arrested right after Steve Croes.

 There is a person, we just do not know who it was.  Mum thinks it was Freddy, I think it was Lorenzo.  Why? Because we find evidence that these two were questioned somewhere along this time line and before Paulus was arrested on the 22 or 23rd.  Some have said Lorenzo was questioned on the 16th...that is after the guards were released and before Paulus was arrested and if true...right before Simian began posting...Freddy also fits in this same scenario too...much more  indication that he was questioned as a possible suspect before Lorenzo.  The rumor on the blogs and on Aruba, as relayed by various posters there, was it was Lorenzo....but I have nothing to prove that as of yet.  I welcome evidence to the contrary....I would like to eliminate one or both of these two if I could.

The first time paulus was brought in for a 4 hour interrogation was on saturday june 18th (he was running from reporters when leaving the police station)

But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.

[MumInOhio]

Lala’s…Freddy is supposed to be Venezeulan and Jaime Columbian….I think I’ll broaden my search!

Thruthseeker…this from Joran’s book…the bolded part tells me that Freddy was questioned before June 9th. 2005…


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
S: I know he knows truth
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him.
D: Freddy knows
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
S: He didn't do a thing.

[jackb]

5th Suspect and Dirty Hand....LOL

I have seen more than my share of theories, but let's look at them...

Dirty Hand possibilities:
Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Ben Vocking
Paulus van der Sloot
Ronny Bernadina
Karen Jansen
I have even seen the SG mentioned as DH and also Nelson Oduber. 

5th Suspect possibilities:
Freddy Abrambatizs
Steve Croes
Lorenzo van Rijn or Gijn
Koen or Sander Gottenbos
Paulus van der Sloot
Geoffrey van Cromvoit
I have even seen Joran, Jaime and Val mentioned.

So there you have it...just a few of the usual suspects.  So which ones fit???  I wish Caps would weigh in with his thoughts too.

Based on times suspects (not witnesses) were arrested, not counting the two black security guards it would have to be GVC, otherwise it would the three original perps, Joran would fall fifth.  There are two fifth suspects, actually and both seem to fill the bill.  Maybe there are supposed to be two fifth suspects.    Jack b

When was GVC arrested? 

april 2006?

Nein, Guido in May of 2006 and GVC in June 14 or 15 2006.   

[MumInOhio]

Also Paulus gave a statement on June 18 right after Steve Croes was arrested.  In he is talking about Freddy...

Freddy had told this story shortly after he was interviewed by the police. He had called my wife and had said that he found it important to tell the truth. After that he came over to us and he first talked to my wife. After that he came back one time and and he spoke with Joran's lawyer, his parents, me and my wife were also present. My wife and myself were very saddened and angry at Joran for apparently not telling us the truth. My wife and the lawyer then confronted Joran about this. According to my wife Joran reacted calmly and said that he had always told Freddy the truth.

It is clear that Paulus is trying to distance himself from the "no body, no case" comments also:

To your question whether my son asked if no body would be found that there would be no case, I can state the following. I cannot remember Joran having asked me this. I have said on several occasions that if the girl were not found, this could pose a problem for them, on top of that would be the uncertainty whether a crime and what crime had been committed.


Mum...this goes back to our Zeolla discussion...too bad those pages before that are missing in Paulus PV...

spoken. With some friends who visited us we undoubtedly spoke about this because it was on our minds too. Some of our friends are members of  “Friends of Aruba” and were closely involved with the search for the girl.

Basically the Zeolla's are Paulus' alibi....they were watching Sebastion...If he is in the Netherlands Paulus has no alibi!

[MumInOhio]

5th Suspect and Dirty Hand....LOL

I have seen more than my share of theories, but let's look at them...

Dirty Hand possibilities:
Jan van der Straten
Rudy Croes
Ben Vocking
Paulus van der Sloot
Ronny Bernadina
Karen Jansen
I have even seen the SG mentioned as DH and also Nelson Oduber. 

5th Suspect possibilities:
Freddy Abrambatizs
Steve Croes
Lorenzo van Rijn or Gijn
Koen or Sander Gottenbos
Paulus van der Sloot
Geoffrey van Cromvoit
I have even seen Joran, Jaime and Val mentioned.

So there you have it...just a few of the usual suspects.  So which ones fit???  I wish Caps would weigh in with his thoughts too.

Based on times suspects (not witnesses) were arrested, not counting the two black security guards it would have to be GVC, otherwise it would the three original perps, Joran would fall fifth.  There are two fifth suspects, actually and both seem to fill the bill.  Maybe there are supposed to be two fifth suspects.    Jack b

When was GVC arrested? 

april 2006?

Nein, Guido in May of 2006 and GVC in June 14 or 15 2006.   

4/15/2006...GVC

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

[JE]

But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.

Was Freddy ever arrested?

[MumInOhio]

But he wasn't arrested until the 22nd or 23rd.

Was Freddy ever arrested?

Not until late August 2005 when the Kalpoes were re-arrested according to ALE...On charges unrelated to Natalee Holloway.....

Where is that bag of salt?

[Lala'sMom]

Lala’s…Freddy is supposed to be Venezeulan and Jaime Columbian….I think I’ll broaden my search!

Thruthseeker…this from Joran’s book…the bolded part tells me that Freddy was questioned before June 9th. 2005…


P179-181

Wednesday June 22, 2005

While being transferred from police station to KIA, Deepak and Satish are secretly recorded in a 40min conversation:

S: Anyway, he seems to know everything better.
D: He knows our rule, we trust him as a friend, like a brother to be close
with (???)
S: Anyway, bad luck.
D: And I also trusted Freddy like a brother.
S: Yes.
D: But he also talked shit, that's why we've been arrested.
S: What did he say?
D: He keeps information behind. You know that Van der Sloot trusts Freddy
with his life. Freddy knows what has happened. Freddy knows the truth.
S: I know he knows truth
D: Freddy knows, Freddy knows.
S: I've just said, Freddy also knows about the story of what happened, ask
him.
D: Freddy knows
S: Yes, he knows that if that person maybe has told him some details (???)
that I don't know, but I also know what that person has told me. That is the
first and the story that we made up, that I know (???)
D: That boy is also arrested, no. Steve. He has been solved too, so then
it's solved too (???)
S: He didn't do a thing.

And what did Freddy say that got the Kalpoes arrested?  Hmmmmm.