SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[texasmom]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….

Security videos??  From the Wyndham...owned by Riverol?  just thinking....

 

I seem to get that Shango is saying frome the pain a new era in governance will start.
Something good will eventually be gained from all of this.  Perhaps an outing of the crooks and oppressors.  That goes to show great things are accomplished by those for whom it was meant to be.  NH will have accomplished great things even in her death.  Eventually  those waters that have been bittered by the dutch and their filthiness will emerge and be cleansed by this new river.  Jack b

These videos are under control of the Beach Security owned by Geoffrey van cromvroits father who is not allowing them to be seen to protect Geoffrey????  Posner took his azz and ran to Chicago.  He has his copies and is probably not as good as the Cromvroits with the security videos and the manipulation of them.  Cromvroits daughter, as well, worked at the PD and could have seen her baby brother in some big azzed trouble and between she, cromvroit, Vanderstratten and Palus changed what they needed changing and have been covering ever since.  Vanderstratten and Cromvroit would protect their jobs and livlihood.  cromvroit would never be able to operate security again if his son was involved with a murder and it was to be found out.  Especially him working as Patrol, having keys and business security access.  It comes down to those three and Jacobs who is lazy and would kiss Vanderfstrattens behind if it meant he could skate until retirement.  Yes, those cops were destroying evidence as fast as people found it and turned it in.  By now I am beginning to get pissed at our State Department for not protecting the integrity of our citizens' rights., etc.  This country should pressure them and demand her be found and the rats dealth with.  Our country needs to stand up for her citizens and if she does not, then WE NEED To know why not.  Who is standing in the way.  Perhaps they are getting some Aruban spin off of perks.  This stuff has got to stop.  Jack Blue

http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/judges_pages/wit.html
The Honourable Mr. Justice Jacob Wit

Snip:
Mr. Justice Wit was appointed by Her Majesty Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands as Deputy Judge of the Rotterdam District Court in January 1984, Judge of the Rotterdam District Court in March 1985 and Judge of the Joint Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba on 1 October 1988. This Court consists of two Courts of First Instance (Netherlands Antilles, Aruba) and a Court of Appeal. Resident in Curaçao since 1986, from then to the present, Mr. Justice Wit has presided over or sat in the Court of Appeal, but mainly presided in the Courts of First Instan­ce over a wide range of cases, involving: civil law (contract, tort, property, succession), commercial and admiralty law, insurance, bankruptcy and (cross border) insolvency, company law and intellectual property, criminal law (serious crime, government corruption, international fraud, money laundering), military law, administrative law, constitutional law and international human rights law.

Snip:
Off the Bench, Mr. Justice Wit has served as Chairman of the Committee of Supervision of the Nether­lands Antilles' Prisons and Houses of Detention (1987-1991); Chairman of the Board of Discipline for Medical Doctors (1992-1995); President of the Military Court of the Nether­lands Antilles (1992-present); Chairman of the Judicial Working Groups on (a) Videoconfe­ren­cing in Court and (b) Code of Ethics for the Judiciary (2003-present); and Chairman of the Committee of Supervision of the Securi­ty Servi­ce of Aruba (2004-present). He has also been a member of the National Committee On Revising the Codes of Crimi­nal Procedure of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba (1987-1998); and Vice-President of the National Committee On Revi­sing the Crimi­nal Code of the Netherlands Antilles (2002-present).
Snip
 

Judge Wit has been around the halls of the palace a very long time.

I still wonder what authority he had in this case if he was appointed to the Caribbean Court of Justice on June 1st. 2005

Mum, my thoughts on this are that his being on the Caribbean Court of Justice is in addition to his role in the Joint Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.  I don't think he lost any authority by the appointment, just gained authority over more jurisdictions.  JMO

[Lala'sMom]

SS did such a wonderful job last night with this that I just had to bring it over.  Mum, there could be some names here you might find in your many searches. Thanks SS!

From this statement, it appears that she knew Theodora van den Broek well and that Theodora was the widow of Mattijs Koppens. She also declared that the floor of her declared that the child had suffocated or drowned. Theodora further explained that the boy's name was Antonius.house in the spot where Theodora van den Broek had been sitting showed signs of childbirth. From these lines I concluded that Petrus had been born in the immediate proximity of the home of Catharina van den Heuvel and her husband Johannes de Weert sometime between eleven in the morning and two in the afternoon.

Next Theodora van den Broek said to Catharina van den Heuvel that she was going to Jenneke Vogels’ house where she did not arrive until five o’clock, according to the latter. Between the hours of two and three o’clock this mother must have been busy with the preparations of disposing of our patriarch Petrus, because, according to the statement of Arnoldus Merks, he found him that same day between three and four o’clock. Another argument could be that Petrus from two until three or four o’clock had been lying in the ditch.




Arnoldus Merks makes his discovery after following baby sounds coming from a ditch near the homes of Johannes de Weert and Martinus Leppers. When he got closer, he first discovered a little foot then the child, which was naked and covered with dirt, sand, and foliage.

http://www.vandersloot.com/vandersloothistory/english/default.htm



When Lourens Johannes van den Heuvel on July 15, 1808, around two o’clock in the afternoon learned that a child had drowned in the stream, he walked over there and retrieved the naked boy of about twelve years old from the water. He also learned that the boy was the son of Theodora van den Broek. Next, the neighbors took the boy to his home by wagon. Doctor A. De Roy, by request of the City Officials, made his way to the house of Theodora van den Broek and established that the boy had drowned in the water. The City Officials A. Lemmens, H. van der Sande, and H. van den Bosch also appeared at the house of Theodora van den Broek in Spoordonk, where they also declared that the child had suffocated or drowned. Theodora further explained that the boy's name was Antonius.

[Lala'sMom]

A little information from Mum about the new AHATA board:

AHATA Elects A New Board Business      December 13th, 2007

Palm Beach – A new Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association board was elected during the recent AHATA General Assembly, held at the Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino.
The new officers of the board were elected from a slate of candidates presented by a nominating committee headed by General Manager Paul Gielen, Renaissance Aruba Resort, and independent consultant Jaap Beaujon.
The election process was overseen by Dr. Ryan Peterson of the Universidad di Aruba.
The new board of the Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association consists of the following eight members: Rick Zeolla, General Manager, Marriott Aruba Resort; Eduardo De Veer, Developer, Meta Corp; Scott Allen, General Manager, Hyatt Regency; Guillermo Valencia, General Manager Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort; Gary Jutz, General Manager, Radisson Aruba Resort & Casino; Matt Balcik, General Manager, Westin Aruba Resort; Peter Steinmetz, Director, Aruba Airport Authority; David Smith, VP Public Relations, Valero Aruba Refinery.
Two board candidates, Joe Najjar, General Manager, La Cabana Beach & Racquet Club and Andres Pichardo, Senior VP Sales and Marketing, Occidental Grand Aruba, remained available in case of seat vacancy on the board and were invited to attend all meetings effective immediately.
Rob Smith, President and CEO of the Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association reports the new board will conduct its first meeting this week, with hotelier Ewald Biemans, Bucuti Beach Resort & Tara Suites, as Chairman of the Board.

[MumInOhio]

consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day

I'm a little confused about when Paulus actually became a suspect.

His 6/23 PV said witness, but his 6/25 said suspect from the beginning.

He was informed later during questioning on 6/25, that he was being detained and gave another statement. They are both listed under the same date.

So he wasn't really a suspect for the first statement, was he?

And I don't think we have one of those arrest notices in the Dr Phil files and I am pretty sure the page and sections are missing from the two previous witness statements and not his suspect statement.

[MumInOhio]

LOL...Lala's...I'm totally lost on geneology, heck I can't spell, type or think anymore today, but I see texasmom is here...

Lala's...Thanks for bringing over those front page posts...it is the only way I get to read them lately!

Texasmom...I will check with Kermit when he visits and see if he recalls when all those new judges were bought in...sometime in 2005, but could have been 2006. I think he would have been meddling regardless!

[MumInOhio]

From Tib…Thanks…

Name :  Andin Bikker.

Link to a pic (not the one I remember) 

http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006/04/andin-bikker.html

Link to more information

http://pipl.com/directory/people/Andin/Bikker

Too late for me to trawl through RWV now for more information, and it would be pointless as this man is not involved - as far as we know.

++++

DIGICEL….Interesting! More at the link below

http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=255035420

[MumInOhio]

consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day

So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?

And if Paulus is the 5th. suspect I don't believe he was scorned by Natalee, so who scorned him.

And who were the friends that he was home with?

More questions...LOL...TIA

[MumInOhio]

There was an AB pulled in, but don't know just now when.  I am not home and have info on outside storage.  Anyway Adin Bikker is who that was, the best I can remimber. 

I thought "AB" was early misinterpretation of Freddy's name?

his last name/Arambatzis was released verbally at first,
rather than in writing

the listener heard Aaron Batsis = AB

anyone else remember this?

  It is Adin Bikker.  I am still not home, but have a picture of him and his father (or boyfriend) or whatever.  They play golf.  He wears glasses, has slope shoulders and looks a bit strange, not quite nerdy, but sort of strange.  The dude with him is older than he is.  I believe the dude with him is some kind of coach or something.  I am not just where I can get hold of this info.  They may have the picture on BFN in their archives.   Jack blue

Is this the pic that you are talking about from getagrip's site? Tibro posted the link this morning.

http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006/04/andin-bikker.html

[MumInOhio]

Interesting thought about bringing someone back, jackb…also Max Arends, Darwin Dubero and I believe that Max Arendz is in Holland now as well

Quote from this morning by jackb

Seems that I remember that dirtyhand is the key.  His lordship never brought the key back.Perhaps he was attempting to have Guido or some of the ones who ran to the NL brought back and could not as someone thwarted that.  A few of them took off.  I believe GCV took off too.  There was this bartender at C&C, Guido, GCV, The Gottenbos' and Posner all went somewhere.  But dirtyhand is the key and the key was never brought back as it never existed (tight alibi?)  The partents (prominent citizens) gave GCV a tight alibi that could not be broken by saying (a lie) he was with them all evening or something to that effect.  They have so much stuff on people through those security videos, most likely, that many are afraid to go after them.  I have it in my head, gut and pictures figured out that GVC did the final death blow to her by GSW.  Everyone who has kept up with this case knows the LE has the case solved and has for three years since June of 05, but there has got to be a way for the US to get their azzes since they are not doing their job  by one of ours.  We prosecute ours if one of theirs is killed here.  Those effers will pay.  Those sorry azzed judges and LE are not fit to lead their own families and suck on wieners for a hobby.  They reek of filth.  Even allowing, in the NL, for filthy people to have sex in public restrooms where families have to go, even filthy perv sex that is an abomination to God.  They are Godless and hate anything or anyone who wants a Godly relationship.  They are a DISGRACE to the world.  Aruba and the NL.   Jack b

   

[MumInOhio]

This was posted over in the NAH thread yesterday by Truthseeker. I thought it interesting that he was back in Aruba September 1st 2005.

September 1, 2005

Son minister gets fined for threat
 ORANJESTAD - The son of Minister Candelario 'Booshi' Wever (MEP) of Health and Environment, Guido "Inti" yesterday after a payment of a fine of 1750 florin vacant.  He was since Saturday, because of the threat Thijzen family.
 There has been a long conflict between supporters of OLA, including the number two on the list Danny van der Linde, and the family Wever.  This was partly with letters sent in the ochtendkranten out.  Van der Linde and others did declaration Friday because of threats against the son of Minister Wever.  The young man was then arrested by the police and interrogated, but could even then.
 When there again Saturday there would be threat Wever junior arrested and detained.  Gisterochtend he was after paying the fine to free feet.  According to his lawyer Anthony Carlo wanted the young man bakkeleien prefer not on the substance of the conflict.  "He should be here on a number of things Aruba regulate shortly before he again goes back to Cuba, where he studied dentistry."

 According to the ministerszoon would not have threat: "I think the public prosecutor wishes to make clear that it will be hard act against threats in political campaigns.  Had the same fact in a different context, it was probably lighter than punished. "Moreover, Minister Wever complaint against Van der Linde, because making a false declaration.  (Amigoe)

[MumInOhio]

All caught up!...LOL

Caps...I can't find your post right now, but it went like this...

Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2

Can you give us any info on the 2 Arambatzis that you found, please.

Also more on the names....any help would be appreciated...TIA

LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT...supposedly mother

FREDDY ALEXANDER ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS...he needs to tell the truth(have seen the last two names reversed, but Mostly have seen it as above)


Also, still trying to sort out Jorge Porras Sanches/Sanchez

It looks like we are after tennis guy, Sanchez, but I'm still looking for more info on him and ties to the Holiday Inn as their tennis pro.

[Lala'sMom]

Just posted by BTGirl in the NAH thread...a few more names. LOL

Since there has been some discussion about the VDS ancestry, I was asked to post this by someone who has an interest in genealogy. They were all part of the land lawsuit in Boxtel that Paulus' family started.


{{edit - see link for names}}
 
http://www.echr.coe.int/ECHR/EN/Header/Case-Law/HUDOC/HUDOC+database/
http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/view.asp?item=1&portal=hbkm&action=html&highlight=sloot&sessionid=6262211&skin=hudoc-en

[Lala'sMom]

consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day

I'm a little confused about when Paulus actually became a suspect.

His 6/23 PV said witness, but his 6/25 said suspect from the beginning.

He was informed later during questioning on 6/25, that he was being detained and gave another statement. They are both listed under the same date.

So he wasn't really a suspect for the first statement, was he?

And I don't think we have one of those arrest notices in the Dr Phil files and I am pretty sure the page and sections are missing from the two previous witness statements and not his suspect statement.

According to Aruba, Paulus was arrested to put pressure on Joran.  That has always made me suspicious since Joran was probably getting ready to break until they arrested Paulus. Joran began to refuse to cooperate in earnest right after Paulus was arrested on June 23.  If you read Joran's PV from the 24th you can see he his entire demeanor had begun to change.  Joran was well aware that they intended to use Paulus as pressure.


On June 24th 2005, at approximately 10.00 hours, we, the reporting officers, went to the correctional facility Aruba to pick up suspect "Joran Andreas Petrus van der SLOOT" to be questioned.

There we, the reporting officers, were informed by the watch-commander on duty of the KIA that the suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT refused to go with us.

The suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT talked to us subsequently, and informed us that he did not want to go with us to the police station in Oranjestad to make a statement.

The suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT gave us as a reason:

- he would only go with us, the reporting officers if is father was released

- that his mother and his lawyer had advised him on behalf of his father to not make any more statements and to invoke his right to not make statements

- that he would receive a message from his father's lawyer when he should make statements

- that according to his lawyer,if he would stop making statements, his father would be released in two days

- that he listens to his families advise

- that the lawyers "Antonio CARLO" and "OOMEN" are good friends of his father

- that these two lawyers out of friendship with is father would defend them

- that he know that if he would make a statement he could bring his father into trouble

- that his father suffers from bad memory and that because of that his and his fathers statements would not correspond

- that his father even can't remember what kind of clothes he himself wore the day before

- that his lawyer had said that the police arrested his father because according to the police his father had picked him up in the late night hours of May 30th 2005 at McDonalds

- that he wished the police would leave his friends and family alone/stop bothering his family and friends

- that he would only answer new questions asked by investigators

- that his lawyer had advised him only to make statements in his presence

- that his lawyer had started a lawsuit so that he would only make a statement with the lawyer present

- that he wouldn't come with us today because his mother would be visiting him at 14.00 hours that day

- that if he gets a visit from his mother he would discuss making another statement with her

- that only if his father, by way of his lawyer would say he should make a statement he would do so

- that he was waiting for the statement of his father and after that make another statement.

Of this, we, the reporting officers, on our oath of office, have made this proces-verbaal, closed and signed in Oranjestad on June 24th 2005.

The reporting officers,

S.A. TROMP M.A.G. RAS

[MumInOhio]

For Lala's...can't link to where I found it...LOL...this is what I am looking for on Freddy's Mom...any help would be appreciated...very important piece of information...LOL...TIA

EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Business address J.E. IRAUSQUIN BLVD. 230, NOORD
Legal form LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Name of the company EXCELSIOR CASINO N.V.
Statutory seat ARUBA
Date of incorporation 19 JUNE 1998

Authorized capital ARUBAN FLORINS 100,000.00
Issued capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Paid up capital ARUBAN FLORINS 20,000.00
Fiscal year 01 JANUARY thru 31 DECEMBER
DIRECTORS - AUTHORIZED PERSONS AND CORPORATE BODIES - SUPERVISORY BOARD:
POSNER, WALTER BRETT;
Residing in 9 BANOCKBURN COURT , BANOCKBURN III, U.S.A.
Born in U.S.A., CHICAGO, ILLINOIS on 21 MAY 1960
Nationality AMERICAN
Position MANAGING DIRECTOR
Effective 23 OCTOBER 1998
Authority FULL
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY
TO OPERATE A CASINO AT THE "HOLIDAY IN RESORT".

[texasmom]

All caught up!...LOL

Caps...I can't find your post right now, but it went like this...

Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2

Can you give us any info on the 2 Arambatzis that you found, please.

Also more on the names....any help would be appreciated...TIA

LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT...supposedly mother

FREDDY ALEXANDER ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS...he needs to tell the truth(have seen the last two names reversed, but Mostly have seen it as above)


Also, still trying to sort out Jorge Porras Sanches/Sanchez

It looks like we are after tennis guy, Sanchez, but I'm still looking for more info on him and ties to the Holiday Inn as their tennis pro.

Mum, not sure if this will help but Caps post about
Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2
is on page 130 of this thread.

[jackb]

He walks in many circles
He walks in ALL houses

Is good governance fully compatible with adherence to moral principles, or does it sometimes require their sacrifice? Philosophers throughout the ages have grappled with the problem of “dirty hands” that results from political leaders having to choose between unsatisfactory alternatives."

------------------

wonder what that Catholic Priest knows who runs that small "mazed" church in the middle of Aruba?  He called the sloots or LE and said Beth had been out there, etc.  He needs to be examined as it would seem he is picking sides, the "Godly" man of the cloth.   j/b

[COLOMBO]

consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day

So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?

And if Paulus is the 5th. suspect I don't believe he was scorned by Natalee, so who scorned him.

And who were the friends that he was home with?

More questions...LOL...TIA

PVDS was not scorned......remember the Simian's business interest......the chief concern of wampum

with respect to the party, that is the alibi story-some times friends cover for each other.....only DH was w/ PVDS when "the tree fell"

[MumInOhio]

All caught up!...LOL

Caps...I can't find your post right now, but it went like this...

Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2

Can you give us any info on the 2 Arambatzis that you found, please.

Also more on the names....any help would be appreciated...TIA

LILIAN REGINA ARAMBATZIS-RODRIGUEZ ALBERT...supposedly mother

FREDDY ALEXANDER ZEDAN ARAMBATZIS...he needs to tell the truth(have seen the last two names reversed, but Mostly have seen it as above)


Also, still trying to sort out Jorge Porras Sanches/Sanchez

It looks like we are after tennis guy, Sanchez, but I'm still looking for more info on him and ties to the Holiday Inn as their tennis pro.

Mum, not sure if this will help but Caps post about
Zedan=0
Arambatzis=2
is on page 130 of this thread.

Thanks tm....I would really like Caps to tell me about the two Arambatzis he found, if he can...LOL...it's probably been so long ago he can't remember!

[MumInOhio]

consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day

So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?

And if Paulus is the 5th. suspect I don't believe he was scorned by Natalee, so who scorned him.

And who were the friends that he was home with?

More questions...LOL...TIA

PVDS was not scorned......remember the Simian's business interest......the chief concern of wampum

with respect to the party, that is the alibi story-some times friends cover for each other.....only DH was w/ PVDS when "the tree fell"

COLUMBO...I do believe you are telling me that I have been been barking up the wrong tree, chasing all over the internet in search of Freddy, Lorenzo, Guido, GVC. Steve Croes, the Gottenbos boys, David and of course the other David. Probably a couple more that I can't quite recall right now....LOL

[COLOMBO]

consecutive posts:

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover (5th suspect) needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:16 pm
He had to be let go
Paulus' duties were suspended on or about 6/17/05. (first use of name)
He had been brought in for questioning that day

So we do agree that paulus was a judge in training until around 6/17/2005, right?

And if Paulus is the 5th. suspect I don't believe he was scorned by Natalee, so who scorned him.

And who were the friends that he was home with?

More questions...LOL...TIA

PVDS was not scorned......remember the Simian's business interest......the chief concern of wampum

with respect to the party, that is the alibi story-some times friends cover for each other.....only DH was w/ PVDS when "the tree fell"

COLUMBO...I do believe you are telling me that I have been been barking up the wrong tree, chasing all over the internet in search of Freddy, Lorenzo, Guido, GVC. Steve Croes, the Gottenbos boys, David and of course the other David. Probably a couple more that I can't quite recall right now....LOL

just don't stand too close to it.....in case it falls