SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[COLOMBO]

see:

« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2007, 09:57:28 PM »

[truthseeker2]

see:

« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2007, 09:57:28 PM »

When did Oduber go to Florida?

[truthseeker2]

see:

« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2007, 09:57:28 PM »

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive

Okay...I'm listening.

[Lala'sMom]

see:

« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2007, 09:57:28 PM »

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:55 am
Find the music
Only David left the den alive

Okay...I'm listening.

Me too.

[Tylergal]

What if Ann went to a party on Friday night and met a young man and they were both attracted to each other.  This young man's name is Bo.  Bo becomes obsessed with Ann and wants  Ann to be only his girlfriend.  Ann is not ready to make that commitment Ann wants to attend law school hundreds of miles away.  Bo is not interested in her education.  He knows he can provide for her.  She refuses to make a commitment to him but he does want to show the degree of love so he buys Ann a ring.  Ann does not want the ring of commitment.  Ann wants only her freedom but promises Bo at some point they will see each other again.  In the meantime, Bo is brooding about what to do with Ann.  She is a free spirit.  He does not want a free spirit.  He wants Ann to be his and only his.  He knows it was love at first sight.  Ann goes on with her life, enjoying her holiday and having fun with her friends and acquaintances.  Bo see Ann on Saturday and she wants to tell him goodbye.  He knows she is staying at the HI but does not want to go there and risk being arrested for disturbing the peace.  He sends a surrogate, Tim to speak on his behalf.  Ann tells Tim she is going ot Hot Spot Tonite.  He tries to convince her not to do that, but to go to Bo's for a party.  She refuses.  She goes to Hot Spot Tonite, engaging in fun with her friends.  She has invited Tim to go along.  Tim reports to Bo that Ann is going to Hot Spot.  Bo knows he cannot go there.  It would not be savvy.  He sends Tim and another friend, Jim to spy on Ann.  Jim tries to make conversation with Ann but Ann  rebuffs him and an argument ensues.  Jim backs off but knows Bo has sent him on a mission.  Bo has money and influence.  Tim has no means of transportation so he recruits Curley and Mo as his chauffeurs.  By evening's end, Tim has convinced Ann that he, Curley and Mo are going to take her back to her cabin so that she will be safe and will not have to deal with Bo.  Jim and Tim have been paid.  As Ann boards the chariot of Curley and Mo, with Tim in tow, Jim follows to make sure they do not depart from course because Jim has been sent to assure that Ann is taken to Bo.  Ann realizes that she is not being taken to her cabin, so she puts up a fight.  Jim who is following assures them that she must not get out of the car.  They further drug Ann at this point.  Knowing that Bo has offered a lot of money for Ann's delivery, they continue to give Ann drugs until she loses consciousness.....OK, I will stop.  Enough for today.

[Lala'sMom]

I kind of liked the Curley and Mo part. LOL 

That is very convulted to me, but then again it could have happened in a similar way. So Bo would be the "boyfriend" from earlier in the week.   

[Lala'sMom]

I will ask again...why did they pick out the two people from all the others to be the security guards that were arrested?  What was the reasoning there?  They had not even noticed J2K in all this except their participation as witnesses.  Why were AJ and MJ the ones chosen to be the scapegoats at first? 

[Tylergal]

Hmm, maybe because at some point there was a phone message on someone's cell phone.

[Lala'sMom]

Interesting, since I think Steve Croes was paid to be an alibi.  You take one guy that all of a sudden decides to provide an alibi for three people that when you read the PVs you see that no one seemed to know who he was or much about him....yet....he provided an alibi that eventually got him arrested.  You can either say stupid or idiot.  Take your pick, somebody with some big bucks would have to pay me to do something that stupid. 

Could these guards have been the only ones that fit the description Deepak and Co. provided?  Did they or someone dressed the same, work various other venues in the area? 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Were MJ & AJ unemployed at that time due to the Allegro being renovated, or is my memory failing me?  If they were not working, were the descriptions of the uniform 'key', at that point?  (that is assuming the uniforms were not turned it when the job ended)

[COLOMBO]

22     Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Lively Case Discussion #638 6/10 - 6/13/2007    on: June 10, 2007, 04:26:21 PM

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=profile;u=246;sa=showPosts;start=20

[Tylergal]

Colombo, you lead one to believe that Steve Croes and/or Mickey John/Abraham Jones was/were involved in this.  Which reference am I to take from this?  Is Steve Croes "dirty hand" that was played or one of the two cards, or are Mickey John and Andrew Jones the cards that were up his sleeve. 

[Tylergal]

Were MJ & AJ unemployed at that time due to the Allegro being renovated, or is my memory failing me?  If they were not working, were the descriptions of the uniform 'key', at that point?  (that is assuming the uniforms were not turned it when the job ended)

That is what I am wondering --- were they arrested because these are the descriptions of the uniforms fit the situation or did Paulus engage them as bifrons and knew what they were wearing.  Definitely, Paulus planted the idea of the Security Guards in the minds of the PIMPS to give this information so they would be picked up.  That gave Paulus a little more time.  Am I right, Colombo?

[Tylergal]

We have been told that GVCs father owned the security business that covered the Holiday Inn.  We have also been told by a girl who was with GVC on the night of June 10 that he received a phone call from a family member that made him very nervous.  Did the VC family arrange to have any tapes destroyed that might have had those involved erased from the tapes?  Were the tapes destroyed on the morning before Beth's arrival that night?  Were security cameras "dinked with" by security guards for a few bucks? 

[Tylergal]

I do think it is worth returning to everyone arrested and try to find why that person/persons was/were arrested.  Was Steve Croes a player or just someone trying to cash in on money that PVDS was handing out for anyone who would cover the stories of the PIMPS.  Is he stupid enough and greedy enough to think his words holds so much sway that he could capitalize on it, or did he really see Natalee being "dropped" off somewhere by these PIMPS and Paulus Pimp a/k/a/ the Elder.

[Lala'sMom]

Colombo
Once again, I am not sure who you are referring to...SC, MJ, or AJ or all three.  Please tell us who you think fits the description of Dirty Hand. TIA

[Tylergal]

 :sad:Colombo and Eleye will not come out to play.

[Tibrogargan]

To me the only person that fits "Bo" in Tyler's scenario above would be GVC, owing to the obsessive type behaviour he displayed.

We have not seen enough of Guido to know if he also could be that possessive but would be more in keeping with "the gamblers knew the girl".

[Stom]

To be quite honest, I read Simian's posts and take them for what they are worth considering that it's very possible his information is coming from ALE.  The same people who were ready to arrest two innocent men while the last three seen with Natalee were barely questioned at all.  I do not doubt Simian's objective, just the quality of the information he was receiving.  I think initially he was getting a lot of information about what was happening in the investigation.  I think as the media hype escalated and the blogs were 'screaming' about the handling of this case his information portal began to close.

Recapitulating, Simian’s motivations were honorable and he reported developments of the case in a stage where multiple possibilities of events were evaluated, revolving the three main suspects.  The most significant information reported from the investigation process was:

June 22, 2005:
- Jug Twitty was checked-out for possible insurance fraud.

- The 5th suspect has a solid alibi and he was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

June 23, 2005:
- Joran was picked-up from McDonald’s at 23:00 PM on May 29th to go home, after being in the casino.

- The presence of the corpse is necessary to have a case.

- There is a gap in the timeline of father and son.

- Phone records and PC’s login times were evaluated.

- Potential evidence collected was sent to The Hague.

June 24, 2005:
- The Kalpoes don’t know anything.

- The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning.

June 25, 2005:
- The phone call was made in the small hours.

- The Kalpoes went home and someone had to pick Joran up.

June 26, 2005:
- The gamblers knew the girl

- She spent the night at the table with the gamblers.

- Who listened to Joran’s call?  Who switched places?

Other than the previously mentioned, I can’t find any information in the Simian’s comments that could have been come from ALE, even if not first hand.  The rest of the information posted by him, is limited to personal opinions, transitory conjectures, side comments, the Aruban way, et cetera, and not the case.

The insurance fraud can be discarded, LVR has an alibi, Natalee sat at the gambling tables but this information has yet to be connected to an alternate significant lead, and the package from The Hague came up empty. 

Basically, what we have left from the inside information source is that there was a phone call in the early hours, that the Kalpoes don’t know anything, and that some unknown party picked Joran up, presumably in the island’s west coast.

[truthseeker2]

Stom,

to continue the thought about the gamblers, what do you think of this post:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

I have wondered about this thinking that some of the 'gamblers' were interviewed by ALE.  If not that, what could Simian mean by 'written down'?

Your thoughts?