SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[Windsor]

I always thought the "whiskered rat" was Rudy Croes, with the beard

[MumInOhio]

rumors afloat that joran has been rearrested in the netherlands

Thanks...I was having trouble loading pages, so made sure I stayed on the Natalee thread.

[nuntukamen]

rumors afloat that joran has been rearrested in the netherlands

Thanks...I was having trouble loading pages, so made sure I stayed on the Natalee thread.

well, looks like that was all it was...rumors

aooarently a radio station broadcast it on aruba, but everything online is quiet, so it obviously did not occur

[JE]

Jackb and JE...Caps was allowed to post all his theories about Shango and Simian, perhaps the two of you would do the same.  It helps me to follow all theories.  Thanks.

If i ever get to the point where i believe i can make sense of this and tell it in such a way that it is not open to different interpretations i will gladly post it. I believe that if shango/simian and others have a legitimate story to tell and for some reason had to "encode" it there should be a single key or logic to decode it. There is no point in encrypting a message without giving your audience the means to decode it according to a fixed set of rules unless there is no message. For example i dont think the word babylonians can mean one thing in a certain post and something else in an earlier or subsequent post. All forms of cryptography are based on the principle that both sender and receiver have a key to encrypt and decrypt the message.
I am now going over all the post they made from the beginning in relation to other posters comments and the events of that particular day.

If something comes to mind like the whiskered rat/ cinderella story that may or more likely may not have some meaning i will post it in the hope that it will trigger someone else. But as i said before my interpretation is as good as anyones.

what i have now are lots of pieces of a puzzle that don't fit together.

What i am interested in is what triggered simian to go from "normal posting" to the cryptic messages. That happened around the 24th

Off to work on a theory LOL

[JE]

Lala's a very wild theory (since you asked) ockhams razor applies but free salt shakers for everyone

Lets assume the wild and crazy guy (The guy that confronted joran) from earlier in the week was LVR. Freddy dont make sense cause the pimps were apparently willing to share girls so why would he get jealous? MB crowd and joran go to C&C
LVR and cohorts are there. They see Natalee and J2k leave. They follow them in a car. 2k and joran get pulled of the road by LVR. Lvr confronts joran, takes natalee and joran for a ride. Kalpoes leave. Lvr takes jorans shoes and  makes him get out of car, to walk home barefeet. LVR has shoes as leverage. Something bad happens to Natalee while in the presence of LVR(kills her out of jealousy). Joran freaks when confronted with Beth tells HI story. There is no doubt joran was interviewed by police on 31th of may. Maybe he tells the true story of what happened (someone, took Natalee). LVR could implicate joran by presenting shoes with DNA on them. Jan van der Straten, Paulus and Joran come up with the story that he left her at beach. Girl is missing no body no case. Joran lies about shoe size and type.(he was probably wearing beige coloured boots) So if joran rats on LVR and LVR produces shoes or makes them be found, legal checkmate

The reason i am postulating this rather outreagous and implausible theory is that i cant understand the lies. If joran would have said like in the de vries tapes that he dumped the body in the first place, assuming the body would never be found, which is a realistic assumption in the case he would have gotten rid of it. The maximum sentence for him would be six monts. No proof of foul play since there is no body. He could have maintained that Natalee had a seizure from drugs or whatever.

But if he was the last person to be seen with her and was unsure about what happened to her and had the knowledge that a third party could implicate him, that would make him prone to lying and confusing the police about his role in the events.

DONT GET ME WRONG i am not saying he had nothing to do with it and in my heart i feel he's much more involved. It's just an alternative scenario that came to mind.

Fire at will

[texasmom]

Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

Mum, I found these links for Rainbow Warriors:

http://www.rainbowwarriors.net/sids/la-car/aruba/index.html

http://www.ecoaruba.com/en/index.html

Looked like interesting reading, however I was unable to view any pages other than the main page.  Websites have not been updated since 2006.  Maybe they're operating under a different name now, maybe the international site would be more accessible than the Aruba specific one.

[MumInOhio]

I always thought the "whiskered rat" was Rudy Croes, with the beard

Hi Windsor...he sure looks like one!

[MumInOhio]

Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

Mum, I found these links for Rainbow Warriors:

http://www.rainbowwarriors.net/sids/la-car/aruba/index.html

http://www.ecoaruba.com/en/index.html

Looked like interesting reading, however I was unable to view any pages other than the main page.  Websites have not been updated since 2006.  Maybe they're operating under a different name now, maybe the international site would be more accessible than the Aruba specific one.

Thanks texasmom and Lala's. I found some posts back on pages 26 and 27, lol...I think, where it was discussed.

I am looking for a Racquet Club connection as some Ponsons are listed in the business directory for 2005.

[MumInOhio]

JE…on the jealous boyfriend.

In Joran’s book, there is a reference to a jealous boyfriend, a David. I am not sure if this is the same David mentioned as going to ASI and whose mother worked for US Customs. I don’t even know if this is David’s real last name that Joran states in the book, probably not. It could also be David Wever or it could also be someone else and Joran used the name ‘David’ as he did with Marco and Guido.

He may have even included this all in his book because of the Simian posts. Who knows…after all the book is listed as fiction.

Here are both the book links…

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1117.0

[MumInOhio]

Good Morning Lala's...Coffee?

I know there is a quote from Dave about this and will have to look for it.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193029,00.html


GRIMM: Right. Right. And I think what happened is "GVC" was seen at some time with Natalee...

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Apparently not. His lawyers issued a statement saying that they've never met.

GRIMM: Last week, the Aruban police came out and said she was seen with him at some point in time.

VAN SUSTEREN: And I think Dave Holloway said they had bumped into each other at Carlos and Charlie's or something, too.

[MumInOhio]

GVC…hottest guy in Aruba…1st link is Michael Dompig, second two don’t work and the last one is GVC…this is where I found it at Riehl World

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/04/natalee_hollowa_8.html


All these guys have to know each other. GVC worked on snorkeling and parasailing boats. So did M Dompig. They all go after the tourist girls including Joran. It's impossible they all don't know each other.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/425616365/1425697195063453400HgIaHE#
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518040021082327657ofmBiQ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518051474082327657SPpgAG
http://community.webshots.com/photo/240708389/1242559385063433796DvPWEv
Posted by: rick | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 07:28 PM

[Lala'sMom]

Lala's a very wild theory (since you asked) ockhams razor applies but free salt shakers for everyone

Lets assume the wild and crazy guy (The guy that confronted joran) from earlier in the week was LVR. Freddy dont make sense cause the pimps were apparently willing to share girls so why would he get jealous? MB crowd and joran go to C&C
LVR and cohorts are there. They see Natalee and J2k leave. They follow them in a car. 2k and joran get pulled of the road by LVR. Lvr confronts joran, takes natalee and joran for a ride. Kalpoes leave. Lvr takes jorans shoes and  makes him get out of car, to walk home barefeet. LVR has shoes as leverage. Something bad happens to Natalee while in the presence of LVR(kills her out of jealousy). Joran freaks when confronted with Beth tells HI story. There is no doubt joran was interviewed by police on 31th of may. Maybe he tells the true story of what happened (someone, took Natalee). LVR could implicate joran by presenting shoes with DNA on them. Jan van der Straten, Paulus and Joran come up with the story that he left her at beach. Girl is missing no body no case. Joran lies about shoe size and type.(he was probably wearing beige coloured boots) So if joran rats on LVR and LVR produces shoes or makes them be found, legal checkmate

The reason i am postulating this rather outreagous and implausible theory is that i cant understand the lies. If joran would have said like in the de vries tapes that he dumped the body in the first place, assuming the body would never be found, which is a realistic assumption in the case he would have gotten rid of it. The maximum sentence for him would be six monts. No proof of foul play since there is no body. He could have maintained that Natalee had a seizure from drugs or whatever.

But if he was the last person to be seen with her and was unsure about what happened to her and had the knowledge that a third party could implicate him, that would make him prone to lying and confusing the police about his role in the events.

DONT GET ME WRONG i am not saying he had nothing to do with it and in my heart i feel he's much more involved. It's just an alternative scenario that came to mind.

Fire at will

In this thread there are no theories too crazy or off the wall.  That is why they gave me my own thread. LOL  I am the queen of "out of the box".  I would ask how we can establish the LVR was ever in the casino at that time.  He is known as a recluse and from all the silence about him I may agree.  I do however think he would frequent casinos.  Why he would choose the HI one is another mystery.  I can't quite understand why that particular casino seems to attract all the action.  There are so many on Aruba, but the Excelsior seems more prone to illegal activity than the others.  Most likley that is not true...we just hear about the HI one more since Natalee was there last.

[Lala'sMom]

GVC…hottest guy in Aruba…1st link is Michael Dompig, second two don’t work and the last one is GVC…this is where I found it at Riehl World

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/04/natalee_hollowa_8.html


All these guys have to know each other. GVC worked on snorkeling and parasailing boats. So did M Dompig. They all go after the tourist girls including Joran. It's impossible they all don't know each other.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/425616365/1425697195063453400HgIaHE#
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518040021082327657ofmBiQ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518051474082327657SPpgAG
http://community.webshots.com/photo/240708389/1242559385063433796DvPWEv
Posted by: rick | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 07:28 PM

We have seen him in a photo with Steve Croes, yet not with Joran.  I would think if he and Joran were often trolling the beaches for girls we would find photos of them together.  Freddy was known to roam the beaches with Joran and we see them together in photos. We see Freddy with the Kalpoes too.  Where is GVC with them?

[Lala'sMom]

Jackb and JE...Caps was allowed to post all his theories about Shango and Simian, perhaps the two of you would do the same.  It helps me to follow all theories.  Thanks.

If i ever get to the point where i believe i can make sense of this and tell it in such a way that it is not open to different interpretations i will gladly post it. I believe that if shango/simian and others have a legitimate story to tell and for some reason had to "encode" it there should be a single key or logic to decode it. There is no point in encrypting a message without giving your audience the means to decode it according to a fixed set of rules unless there is no message. For example i dont think the word babylonians can mean one thing in a certain post and something else in an earlier or subsequent post. All forms of cryptography are based on the principle that both sender and receiver have a key to encrypt and decrypt the message.
I am now going over all the post they made from the beginning in relation to other posters comments and the events of that particular day.

If something comes to mind like the whiskered rat/ cinderella story that may or more likely may not have some meaning i will post it in the hope that it will trigger someone else. But as i said before my interpretation is as good as anyones.

what i have now are lots of pieces of a puzzle that don't fit together.

What i am interested in is what triggered simian to go from "normal posting" to the cryptic messages. That happened around the 24th

Off to work on a theory LOL

At this time I agree with you that once a definition is established it would remain the same through out the riddles.  I can't make it change and mean something else either. Simian says that babylonians meant gamblers. So if that is true then much of Colombo's theories are correct. If we think babylonians means the Dutch...then we have a different story there.  When you read the posts in context the terms do get changed from time to time and that is confusing...but Simian and Shango do not confuse them...only the others trying to decipher them.


Simian discovered there was a doppleganger around that time.  Also, I think someone was trying or did find out who Simian was then.  The cryptic messages began just 2 days before Shango arrived on scene.  There is a connection.

[Lala'sMom]

Mum
The first webshots link worked for me..the rest wouldn't load...but I did find some familiar faces in that one...seems some people are everywhere on Aruba...day and night. LOL

[vms]

GVC…hottest guy in Aruba…1st link is Michael Dompig, second two don’t work and the last one is GVC…this is where I found it at Riehl World

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2006/04/natalee_hollowa_8.html


All these guys have to know each other. GVC worked on snorkeling and parasailing boats. So did M Dompig. They all go after the tourist girls including Joran. It's impossible they all don't know each other.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/425616365/1425697195063453400HgIaHE#
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518040021082327657ofmBiQ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/518010456/1518051474082327657SPpgAG
http://community.webshots.com/photo/240708389/1242559385063433796DvPWEv
Posted by: rick | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 07:28 PM

We have seen him in a photo with Steve Croes, yet not with Joran.  I would think if he and Joran were often trolling the beaches for girls we would find photos of them together.  Freddy was known to roam the beaches with Joran and we see them together in photos. We see Freddy with the Kalpoes too.  Where is GVC with them?

I haven't seen any of him with the Kalpoes but here is one with Angelina.

[MumInOhio]

Mum
The first webshots link worked for me..the rest wouldn't load...but I did find some familiar faces in that one...seems some people are everywhere on Aruba...day and night. LOL

The fourth one has GVC with 2 girls. will have to go back as I had to shut down, that is the one that said the hottest guy in Aruba...just was going to post an interesting CNN link, will have to fetch it again...LOL

[MumInOhio]

I found this interview interesting and there is some discussion on the vcb shirt, but it is way too long to post. Here is the link and a small piece.




http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/20/ng.01.html



VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to make sure I heard you correctly because what you said was very significant, if I heard you right. You`re saying that you believe Geoffrey was at Carlos and Charlie`s that night?

HOLLOWAY: Yes. There are some witnesses...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow!

HOLLOWAY: ... that are being talked to that indicate that he may have been in Carlos and Charlie`s that same night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s big new information, and I want to stress the reason why it`s such big new information is that we had originally theorized when we heard about this young man that he may have been patrolling the beach that night, the night Natalee disappeared, because that was a job he later held.

Now, of course, he has the presumption of innocence. I`d like to read a statement that his attorney has handed to us, and this is sort a summary of a very long statement, basically saying Geoffrey was not employed in May or June for the Visibility team or the VCB
security company. And that basically means that he says he wasn`t patrolling the beach for them. Geoffrey was not a friend and has no relationship to the three suspects previously detained, Joran and the Kalpoes. VCB did not take care of security in May 2005 for the Holiday Inn. From May 2005 to the present, VCB did not install security cameras at the Holiday Inn or any hotels along the string.

Again, bottom line, he`s saying he was patrolling that night. But gosh, Jim Moret, if it turns out that he was at Carlos and Charlie`s, doesn`t that give it an entirely new spin? That`s new information.

MORET: It does give it new spin. And let me just restate what the OM, the public prosecutor`s office, said in a written statement because this is very important. The OM said that Van Cromvoirt is being held as a suspect, not as a witness. But Van Der Sloot remains the main suspect.

[MumInOhio]

I got back to those two that wouldn't open by doing prev. and next, but they were only family pics. Didn't want to miss anything...LOL

jackb...if you are here...Do you have anything on GVC's alibi? I know you have posted that it was his Dad, but is there anything, posts, transcripts or interviews that you could point me to?...TIA

[jackb]

The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?

  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

Where is the evidence that GVC was arrested in early 2005?  I am still trying to find that after you first mentioned it.  How would you know this?  I want to see it in writing so there will be no doubt as to who is the 5th. TIA

GCV was not arrested in 2005, but Shango being Shango did not need to have it in the year he was talking about it happening.  As well AB (Bikker) was not a suspect.  SUSPECT being the key word here.  SUSPECTS are kept.  Not sure when Adine Bikker was arrested, will not look it up now.  j/b