SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[bleachedblack]

Stom,

to continue the thought about the gamblers, what do you think of this post:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

I have wondered about this thinking that some of the 'gamblers' were interviewed by ALE.  If not that, what could Simian mean by 'written down'?

Your thoughts?

Written down seems to imply routine, or common knowledge as if written in a textbook. Many believe the PIMPS engaged in  tourist "abductions" in the past.

My interpretation of this is not literal word for word. IMO the gamblers are the PIMPS we have come to know of. Those that frequented the casino's and are mentioned in the statements would be the gamblers. They would be the ones that knew her and with whom she might have gambled with a few times at their tables.

[COLOMBO]

Shango:

Why did the girl owe money?

"to know"=to owe

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The fallen judge agreed to sing because he can hum any tune
[when was ever a judge?]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
Because the fallen judge agreed, he can sing any song he wants

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing (note: the judge has fallen)
The shivas knew the girl (?)
the arawaks new the girl (?)
and the babylonians still know the girl (?)

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.


who switched places? ....find out where Joran went
Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
Some windows overlooking Babylon have been opened
QQ  QQ  QQ  QQ  QQ
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path (to the maze)
to the house of Rave (lions),
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

[COLOMBO]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?

The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

[Lala'sMom]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.


gamblers=Joran and Paulus?? 

[ala_gunslinger]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.


gamblers=Joran and Paulus?? 

More like pvds then jvds.

[COLOMBO]

look closely -there are two games...one played by arawaks (LE)-and one that is played by lions when they "Rave"

'elders of the game, not just of babylon......'

playing cards "as an arawak" in the house of babylon.....then becoming a fallen judge.....interesting that a 'fallen judge' would sing about who was owed money.....

see link above to my earlier post re: 'playing the game'

[Lala'sMom]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl.


gamblers=Joran and Paulus?? 

More like pvds then jvds.

 

[Lala'sMom]

Colombo
According to you (please feel free to correct me ) is this the way you see it?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries… The ALE has had crooked cops for many years. 
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable There is proof that this is true.
DirtyHand is well known This is a person (s) that everyone on the island knows.
there will be a sacrifice Someone will pay for stirring all this up and bringing it out in public.
the gods have been talking The Dutch authorities are talking and have decided someone has to pay.
the fires have been lit 
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot They will not find Natalee.
that is why they are preparing the sacrifice They are trying to find something that will appease everyone so things will calm down and they can go back to the way things were.
All fear DirtyHand
Arawaks and babylon This person has the power to make both ALE and the Sloots life miserable by telling the secrets.
I must go feed the messengers I need to go give an interview or get online on the blogs to keep eveyone informed.

[Lala'sMom]

Let's try this again...I think I should revise my concept of messengers from my previous post.  "Messenger" appears to be those feeding the information to Shango.  I guess that could still apply by considering that Shango could have been posting only what he was told by someone else and that it was not his original ideas.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers Shango has his own informants and they are not associated with Simian's.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys.
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat.
The gods are talking Joran will be the one that pays for this crime because the evidence points more so to him than anyone else.  The family will then be happy and so will all the media and people will feel that justice has been served and everyone will go home and the tourists will return.  That is what is needed to end this nightmare.
DirtyHand is alive and well The truth lies with this person and if they can keep him/her from talking everything will return to normal.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post This poster was asking if Dirty Hand could be a member of law enforcement.
Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis. This post is self explanatory.

[COLOMBO]

Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers

the gods have been talking

All of Shango's information comes from the higher power, Olorum

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.
[acuity: keeness of hearing, sight, INTELLECT]

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation

I must feed the messengers [tapes are translated, 'fed']

The gods are talking

All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!

If ye have truth, ask not how it was begotten

[Lala'sMom]

I give up! This is not a discussion, it's a lesson in futility. 

[Ree]

Shango is not a Simian Doppleganger and has his own messengers

the gods have been talking

All of Shango's information comes from the higher power, Olorum

Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity.
[acuity: keeness of hearing, sight, INTELLECT]

Shango looks from afar but speaks with truth. He does not converse with the Simian, or any other worldly sources, and attempts to bring direction to speculation

I must feed the messengers [tapes are translated, 'fed']

The gods are talking

All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

If a bird whispers an evil secret, the listener is not the sinner!

If ye have truth, ask not how it was begotten

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

[Stom]

Stom,

to continue the thought about the gamblers, what do you think of this post:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

I have wondered about this thinking that some of the 'gamblers' were interviewed by ALE.  If not that, what could Simian mean by 'written down'?

Your thoughts?

I don’t know, but given the Simian’s posts on June 26th, I’d guess also that he was referring to interrogations of those seen with Natalee in the casino. 

I have the feeling that June 26th was a day that the Simian began to retract his excitement and anticipation about a proximate final outcome.  I sense his lost enthusiasm for not knowing which course the investigation would take place.  Examples of his ambivalence are his comments about “the third act”…all with different possibilities, within a span of two hours.  Either he was insecure or he had a toke too many of his genetically grown Nederweed.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.

The comment "All that the gamblers knew was written down" could be in reference to or corroboration of one of his possible third acts.

[ala_gunslinger]

Stom,

to continue the thought about the gamblers, what do you think of this post:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

I have wondered about this thinking that some of the 'gamblers' were interviewed by ALE.  If not that, what could Simian mean by 'written down'?

Your thoughts?

I don’t know, but given the Simian’s posts on June 26th, I’d guess also that he was referring to interrogations of those seen with Natalee in the casino. 

I have the feeling that June 26th was a day that the Simian began to retract his excitement and anticipation about a proximate final outcome.  I sense his lost enthusiasm for not knowing which course the investigation would take place.  Examples of his ambivalence are his comments about “the third act”…all with different possibilities, within a span of two hours.  Either he was insecure or he had a toke too many of his genetically grown Nederweed.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.

The comment "All that the gamblers knew was written down" could be in reference to or corroboration of one of his possible third acts.

Hi STom!

If I may...

What happened on 28 June 2005?

[truthseeker2]

Stom,

to continue the thought about the gamblers, what do you think of this post:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

I have wondered about this thinking that some of the 'gamblers' were interviewed by ALE.  If not that, what could Simian mean by 'written down'?

Your thoughts?

I don’t know, but given the Simian’s posts on June 26th, I’d guess also that he was referring to interrogations of those seen with Natalee in the casino. 

I have the feeling that June 26th was a day that the Simian began to retract his excitement and anticipation about a proximate final outcome.  I sense his lost enthusiasm for not knowing which course the investigation would take place.  Examples of his ambivalence are his comments about “the third act”…all with different possibilities, within a span of two hours.  Either he was insecure or he had a toke too many of his genetically grown Nederweed.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.


Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The elder agreed to speak, but he he loves the boy too much. The knows the passages of the palace too well. So the Babylonians must make sure the check mate is iron-clad.
Something rotten from The Hague will have to make the third act play out.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.

The comment "All that the gamblers knew was written down" could be in reference to or corroboration of one of his possible third acts.

A few things were going on around this time.  Steve Croes and Paulus were being questioned by ALE and a search was to be conducted at the quarry in Moko.  I think this may have been the day Paulus was released.  Also, it is my understanding that the information regarding the forensic evidence was due back from the Netherlands around this time.

Any combination of these events could have served to discourage Simian.  I have also thought that this could have been a time when his contact at ALE began to back off providing information...for whatever reason.  Either way, you are right.  Simian did change his whole approach to posting at SM.

If "the gamblers" were interviewed by ALE I do not know who they were.  At first I did consider Joran, Andre, Deepak, and Guido, but that does not seem to fit when Simian says "She spent her nights at their tables."  So I am considering otherwise, but am not making much progress there. 

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
If the door to eden is to be opened with that key, it will be tomorrow
or forever remained closed

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing
If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed
I must feed the messengers

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:37 pm
How can so many gamblers be wrong about the girl? This is unbelievable.
The Babylonians need to pinch the ravers. That will need to happen tomorrow.
The Simian is leaving.

But Simian does not leave:

Simian Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Watch tomorrow, but do not speak, and it will all unfold before you.


With the release of Paulus and the search of Moko's quarry on the 27th you would almost think they both believed this is where Natalee would be found or that the information from the Netherlands would be enough to solve the case.  Neither happened, however the search at Moko did end prematurely and was never resumed.

It seems Simian is upset that information about or from the gamblers may not have been accurate or he is being fecitious.  The way the post is written it makes me believe that "the gamblers" implied that Natalee had been to a party and now the information he is getting has nothing to do with a party.

So...and I have said this many times...I wish TES would return to Moko and finish that search.

[truthseeker2]

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

[Tylergal]

I am not sure why it would/should bother anyone that our FBI was posting information; however, I think it seems unlikely.  I think FBI uses many avenues of getting and giving information, posting a board like this would simply be too benign, IMHO, for what FBI normally do but then I really do not know.  I feel this is someone from the island but some seem to definitely know one another as they talk about going to work, working nights, etc., with board participants. 

[Lala'sMom]

Brought this over from the NH thread...maybe we should rethink our 5th suspect once again. I know the thought of Natalee with sweaty Paulus is disgusting, but let's consider that maybe Simian was referring to "boyfriend" not in the literal sense, but in the fact that Paulus was himself interested in her and she was not.  I still maintain that she did not act as if she knew him if that is indeed Paulus at sitting beside her in the casino.  Then again we have yet to see the video in it's entirety.  So at this point I just don't know.  Also, who's to say that Paulus was not playing every night in the casino in order to target a young girl for his own use. Indeed, the Aruban posters were indicating Lorenzo and Steve as 4th and 5th persons questioned, so again it is confusing. Thanks Nut for posting this.

Nut44x4

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #679 8/26 - 8/29/2007
« Reply #753 on: Today at 01:57:19 PM »
   
Not long ago we were in a discussion re: 5th suspect. Apparently Croes said PVDS was the 5th.

*In a statement, Croes called van der Sloot the fifth suspect in the disappearance of Holloway, who has been missing since March 31.

Van der Sloot's 17-year-old son and two of the boy's friends, brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Satish Kalpoe, 18, were seen drinking with Holloway at Carlos 'n Charlie's bar on the night she disappeared. All three young men are being held at the island's correctional facility. A fourth* suspect, Steve Gregory Croes, 26, a disc jockey on a party boat that docked near Holloway's hotel, was arrested last weekend.




http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-23-aruba_x.htm

[COLOMBO]

Trying to find information about the extent of Lorenzo's questioning......from the polis' standpoint......much seems to have been "kept hidden".....thoughts???????

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

DirtyHand walks in ALL houses
houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave

He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played

DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks


Threadsurfers, DirtyHand is more vulnerable than the Arawak King and your lances should point in his direction.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/21/lorenzo-van-rijn-arrested-on-drug-charges-in-aruba-hmm-ya-dont-say/

[COLOMBO]

more......

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours.
The confrontation was brutal.  So who heeded his call? Who switched places?

where was JVDS returning from?