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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1  (Read 1040209 times)
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #3800 on: March 22, 2008, 10:29:21 PM »

Steve Croes is the 4th person arrested...well if you don't count the SG, which had been released by the time Simian was speaking of them. 

but what about the un-named person
who was detained/released the previous night?

detain/arrest: synonyms which share common definition

you say po ta to, I say po tah to ...
they fry up the same

someone detained musta earned suspect status

Finngirl…but what about the one from the 11th. that didn’t happen? It was reported on and posted about on more than one board!
can you point me in direction of reading material?
checked on SM FP but there are about 3000 posts, give/take
for the time period around june 11th

TIA  Cool

Also according to the Kalpoe car tape of 6/22, Freddy was why they were arrested. Only way for that to happen was if Freddy spoke to ALE prior to 6/9, which we have no record of.

All of this would of course change who is #5…..

SM FP posters said LvR questioning/searches (including mother's home)
occurred on june 16, date of mystery person's detainment/release

said it was in aruban newspapers/on local tv news reports

SM was all dialed in w/ arubanos at that time ...
can't see that Red/Tom would update FP w/ bunk

so AFAIK their june 17 update is valid info



Which means that LVR is the 5th suspect...or not. LOL
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SS
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« Reply #3801 on: March 22, 2008, 10:30:38 PM »

SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.







How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   
I realized what you meant the minute I posted the last response, lol.  Many monkeys knew ag's name from personal contact with her.  I didn't know her name either.





Has ArubaGirl been informed that Finbar has implicated her?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 11:51:58 PM by klaasend » Logged
Lala'sMom
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« Reply #3802 on: March 22, 2008, 10:31:59 PM »

SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.







How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   


That is Arubagirl's real name and I doubt she is going to be happy with it being posted everywhere. I know, because she told me.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 11:53:28 PM by klaasend » Logged
Lala'sMom
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« Reply #3803 on: March 22, 2008, 10:33:56 PM »

SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.







How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   
I realized what you meant the minute I posted the last response, lol.  Many monkeys knew ag's name from personal contact with her.  I didn't know her name either.





Has ArubaGirl been informed that Finbar has implicated her?

Yes.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 11:54:07 PM by klaasend » Logged
finngirl
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« Reply #3804 on: March 22, 2008, 10:52:43 PM »

Which means that LVR is the 5th suspect...or not. LOL

sorry, L'sMom, I didn't explain that very well

I meant that june 16 mystery arrest, if true, was #4
and SGC arrest on june 17 was #5

y'know how they say working puzzles/like that
is supposed to enhance mental ability?

living proof > not = me
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COLOMBO
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« Reply #3805 on: March 22, 2008, 11:40:15 PM »

Which means that LVR is the 5th suspect...or not. LOL

sorry, L'sMom, I didn't explain that very well

I meant that june 16 mystery arrest, if true, was #4
and SGC arrest on june 17 was #5

y'know how they say working puzzles/like that
is supposed to enhance mental ability?

living proof > not = me

provided the individual was declared a suspect
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #3806 on: March 22, 2008, 11:49:35 PM »

Which means that LVR is the 5th suspect...or not. LOL

sorry, L'sMom, I didn't explain that very well

I meant that june 16 mystery arrest, if true, was #4
and SGC arrest on june 17 was #5

y'know how they say working puzzles/like that
is supposed to enhance mental ability?

living proof > not = me

So then make Steve Croes fit the requirements of the 5th suspect.  What party?  At his house? When did he meet Natalee in the casino?  How do we know?   Who was his alibi?  Why would he be jealous of Joran?  There is much confusion as to who was 4th or 5th.  If Steve is the 5th person then who was 4th?  Why do some news agencies say it the other way around...I am being rhetorical you don't have to answer.  I already know the answer.  One thing to consider is Freddy, Sander and Koen were all questioned the day before.  Someone make Steve fit the criteria for the 5th suspect.  I am waiting.  Rolling Eyes
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klaasend
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« Reply #3807 on: March 22, 2008, 11:57:12 PM »

NO posting of real life names.  If you see something like that please let me know.  You can report the post and all the Moderators will see the problem.  Please don't continue to quote it as it just makes more work for us.

I will stake my life on it that Arubagirl IS NOT Simian.
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finngirl
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« Reply #3808 on: March 23, 2008, 12:31:45 AM »

I am waiting.  Rolling Eyes

thinking that you, along w/ the rest of us,
could be waiting a very long time

 Rolling Eyes

something I've been wondering about:
perhaps the party was a lie

alibi was a lie/the party was contained in the lie

friends said "(insert name here) was w/ us all night" ...
which entered the official record
and was passed along/was available to ALE source
who passed it along to others/sim

someone needed alibi to cover actual whereabouts, yes ...
house party is a one-size-fits-all alibi

if the "partygoers" gave similar stories/details ...
and LE was not motivated to prove otherwise, for whatever reasons,
we might be looking for a party that never happened

ditto many other details:
if they arose from false statements
which were accepted/entered into official record/passed along ...

we may be trying to prove negatives


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finngirl
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« Reply #3809 on: March 23, 2008, 01:34:22 AM »

Which means that LVR is the 5th suspect...or not. LOL

sorry, L'sMom, I didn't explain that very well

I meant that june 16 mystery arrest, if true, was #4
and SGC arrest on june 17 was #5

y'know how they say working puzzles/like that
is supposed to enhance mental ability?

living proof > not = me

provided the individual was declared a suspect

very true

perhaps someone was arrested for jaywalking
and, since it was a slow news week,
the threadsurfers exaggerated it
into something pertaining to the case

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whiskey for my men/beer for my horses
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« Reply #3810 on: March 23, 2008, 03:40:43 AM »

POSSIBILITY??????????????????????????

IF SGC claimed to have had a private party, couldn't the location have been the TATOO?  We know that SGC was fired from his DJ job by the owner Wiggins who gave him such a glowing review.  Didn't Sander G take Daddy's boat out the night of 5/29/05?  Maybe there was a destination or rather a party to attend????????????  & then of course the pimp activity could have been planned to take place at a private party but the plans changed?

Pure speculation on my part but after having the thought, believe it is a prudent thing to share with the researchers that have been working so diligently & share so generously.
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JE
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« Reply #3811 on: March 23, 2008, 08:26:41 AM »

i know about that one. The words "you made me lie" "coward" "you conspired against me" are not in that transcript

gosh, you're right, it's not word for word ...
what was I thinking?

I took sim's post to mean that on June 24
there was an argument/people were turning on each other

guess I read too much into it cuz the dates match ...
thanks for clearing that up

Wink



I m sorry if i did not make my self clear. I am not saying that because of the words not matching exactly it means that simian is not talking about the police recording. It's just odd he didnt even hint at the IMO bombshell in those recordings like for example: D says to J: They’re going to give you 15 years if they find the girl.
judging by the date i'd have to agree with you.
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COLOMBO
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« Reply #3812 on: March 23, 2008, 09:34:37 AM »

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
The alibi needs to be broken.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake (PVDS was not at home)

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Killing his own dogs. Dumping them is the reservoir. Harrassing his schoolmates.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:09 pm
The party-go-ers need to be pinched (for lying?-perjury....), but no one wants to be the cafone. Including the boy.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Who took the boy to the party? Who took him home? Therein lies the third act. Look up the Simian’s posts from days ago.

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« Reply #3813 on: March 23, 2008, 09:39:08 AM »

NO posting of real life names.  If you see something like that please let me know.  You can report the post and all the Moderators will see the problem.  Please don't continue to quote it as it just makes more work for us.

I will stake my life on it that Arubagirl IS NOT Simian.






I would like to clear a few things up regarding the use of names.  In genealogy research, the researcher is required to produce his/her name and all documented sources of the research data.  In most cases, the researcher is required to submit an address or email contact where other researchers can make contact for the verification of data.  The name which I provided was found on ancestry.com where I have a subscription.  This name is also available at the public sites of rootsweb.com and worldgenweb.com where this person is a prolific researcher in Aruban genealogy. I was completely unaware that this same person was also known by a few SM bloggers as XX.  I have no doubt that most other posters at SM are unaware of XX's identity.  I don't know why Finbar directed us to the genealogy site of this individual, but he did, and I found the identity of the person to whom he was directing us.  I am quite sure that more SMs than just myself were surprised to find that this individual is obviously a special friend to other SMs.  Had this genealogist not been known by a few as a special former SM, I doubt that her name would now be edited.  When Finbar first informed us about an ex monkey, there was much excitement to identify the person.  I guess that things changed when a certain name surfaced. In searching for information about the horrific disappearance and coverup of Natalee Holloway, I was not aware that there are protected individuals on this site.  There doesn't seem to be any restrictions on providing most other names be they Aruban, Dutch, American, etc. This sounds a little like ALE procedures.  Perhaps, the newer SMs should receive a list of the protected ones.  I am out of here.
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COLOMBO
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« Reply #3814 on: March 23, 2008, 09:39:49 AM »

My bad.....

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there (the alibi), or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #3815 on: March 23, 2008, 09:40:27 AM »

Happy Easter everyone!


Yes, my point exactly!  We are trying to prove a negative.  Only problem is until we find written proof that any of the possible 5th suspects can fit all main criteria according to Simian we will have multiple options.   

Steve Croes...where is the proof of his alibi?  His party?
Lorenzo...where is the proof of his meeting Natalee in the casino?
Freddy...was he working or in the casino?
GVC...was he jealous of Joran? Did he have a party at his house? Who is the alibi?
Paulus...would he really kill someone because he was jealous of his own son?  Who provided his alibi?  Was he having friends over? 

We can go on and on and never make one person totally fit or can we?  Maybe it is more complicated than I think.  Whatever, there are several people working on it and we will get there sooner or later.  I have many thoughts on the 5th suspect that I have yet to mention.  Sometimes it is better to wait and see what develops. 

Several think that the 5th and dirty hand are one and the same.  Some think Shango and Simian are the same person.  Some think Simian spoke in a method to communicate to only his Aruban friends  (I find that theory flawed, but nevertheless). Others have said that this 5th person is solely responsible for Natalee's death...in that case I say it's Paulus.  I do not think for one minute if such a person exists that Joran would take the blame for this guy unless it was family.  What irks me is that Simian wanted people to know, but lacked the courage to come out and say what he needed to say.  It's been 3 years...if no one on Aruba knows who he is by now then that must be the best kept secret in the universe (besides Shango's identity).   

I think all the answers we are seeking lie in those PV's that are still in the hands of the ALE.  The same ones that Natalee's family will never get their hands on.  I fear none of us will ever know the truth anymore.  Should we solve all the riddles and discover all the secrets what good are they if no one will act?   Sad state of affairs is what it is...is there no one person out there that has the courage to end this nightmare for Aruba?
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #3816 on: March 23, 2008, 09:47:12 AM »

POSSIBILITY??????????????????????????

IF SGC claimed to have had a private party, couldn't the location have been the TATOO?  We know that SGC was fired from his DJ job by the owner Wiggins who gave him such a glowing review.  Didn't Sander G take Daddy's boat out the night of 5/29/05?  Maybe there was a destination or rather a party to attend????????????  & then of course the pimp activity could have been planned to take place at a private party but the plans changed?

Pure speculation on my part but after having the thought, believe it is a prudent thing to share with the researchers that have been working so diligently & share so generously.


Good thoughts!  I would love to find out that Steve had a party that night on the Tattoo and that Joran did call on him to help, but we can't find that out.  It would take someone there at the time to provide the info.  I thought the Tattoo was closed that night...according to it's owner.  I also thought Steve was at CnC's at some time that night. Since he is a DJ, maybe he was working another party or his own party.  I haven't seen evidence to suggest he was having his own party.  Maybe we are thinking  about the word party in the wrong fashion...maybe there was a party it just wasn't the party hosts actual house, but rather another house that on that night would have been referred to as "their place".  OK.  I am rambling again....sorry.
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« Reply #3817 on: March 23, 2008, 10:02:15 AM »

In one of the Aruba-Bay video's there is a party on the Tatoo, is this a clue?

Lala'sMom their are programs a poster can buy to hide your IP, you will always show up in the location you pick. So you can't always go by that sorry to say.
I have been an Administer at 6 Natalee's sites and have seen them all.

SS wonderful work you remind me of Finbar
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Behind Every Lie is a Clue to the Truth
Lala'sMom
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« Reply #3818 on: March 23, 2008, 10:05:16 AM »

Simian on June 26th, 2005 10:24 pm

The boy is no Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.

The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.

This is all a “lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.
[/b]


This party has to be the party for the elders that allows the deflowering of forbidden fruit...the apartment scenario that Caps has spoken of recently.   If Dirty Hand and the 5th suspect are one and the same...then I can think of numerous possibilities here.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #3819 on: March 23, 2008, 10:08:58 AM »

In one of the Aruba-Bay video's there is a party on the Tatoo, is this a clue?

Lala'sMom their are programs a poster can buy to hide your IP, you will always show up in the location you pick. So you can't always go by that sorry to say.
I have been an Administer at 6 Natalee's sites and have seen them all.

SS wonderful work you remind me of Finbar



You will need to argue the IP point to Klaas...she is the one that said this.  I am simply passing on her info.
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