SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[truthseeker2]

Brought this over from the NH thread...maybe we should rethink our 5th suspect once again. I know the thought of Natalee with sweaty Paulus is disgusting, but let's consider that maybe Simian was referring to "boyfriend" not in the literal sense, but in the fact that Paulus was himself interested in her and she was not.  I still maintain that she did not act as if she knew him if that is indeed Paulus at sitting beside her in the casino.  Then again we have yet to see the video in it's entirety.  So at this point I just don't know.  Also, who's to say that Paulus was not playing every night in the casino in order to target a young girl for his own use. Indeed, the Aruban posters were indicating Lorenzo and Steve as 4th and 5th persons questioned, so again it is confusing. Thanks Nut for posting this.

Nut44x4

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #679 8/26 - 8/29/2007
« Reply #753 on: Today at 01:57:19 PM »
   
Not long ago we were in a discussion re: 5th suspect. Apparently Croes said PVDS was the 5th.

*In a statement, Croes called van der Sloot the fifth suspect in the disappearance of Holloway, who has been missing since March 31.

Van der Sloot's 17-year-old son and two of the boy's friends, brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Satish Kalpoe, 18, were seen drinking with Holloway at Carlos 'n Charlie's bar on the night she disappeared. All three young men are being held at the island's correctional facility. A fourth* suspect, Steve Gregory Croes, 26, a disc jockey on a party boat that docked near Holloway's hotel, was arrested last weekend.




http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-23-aruba_x.htm

If we are to stay true to the Simian posts Paulus would not be the "boyfriend from earlier in the week" because Paulus was not on the island 'earlier in the week'.  I cannot attest to who would actually like whom because I do not personally know any of these people.  I discount Paulus as the 5th suspect based on Simian's posts not on whether or not I think Natalee would have liked Paulus in any way.

[Stom]

Hi STom!

If I may...

What happened on 28 June 2005?

Hello!

28 June 2005:

• The news of Paulus’ release.

• Beth’s expression of devastation in the media, because she felt the authorities had lost grip of the investigation.

• The day that many lost hope of finding Natalee’s body.

• The Simian talked about his intentions:  informing events and developments before they became news.

• The Simian expressed disgust for Shango, for making fun of him and playing with the feelings of FP posters.

• The Simian stated that he had PINGed Shango, that he knew Shock, Chek Me and that these too were getting to him.

• The Simian was on the defensive for Shango’s intentions to ridicule him and on the defensive for being called a female.

• Both the Simian and Shango stopped posting under those nicks.

[Stom]

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

If Shango is an FBI agent, he’s an incompetent creep.  Holding such a position empowers him with sufficient freedom to inform his superiors about the true meaning of the information he mysteriously tries to relay in the message board. To purposely give the impression that informing openly would be a threat to his personal integrity and wellbeing is equivalent to implying that he is also part of the “conspiracy” and that would make him a delinquent thug FBI agent.

[truthseeker2]

Stom,

They actually posted up through July 30th, 2005.  This is the last post I have for Shango:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night

This is the last as Simian:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.
Posted Jun 30, 4:24 PM

[truthseeker2]

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

I agree.  I would be extremely disappointed to know that someone with the FBI would do that.  The only reason i could think of for them to do something like that would be if they thought information could be obtained by doing so.  Either way, it's a creepy thought.

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

If Shango is an FBI agent, he’s an incompetent creep.  Holding such a position empowers him with sufficient freedom to inform his superiors about the true meaning of the information he mysteriously tries to relay in the message board. To purposely give the impression that informing openly would be a threat to his personal integrity and wellbeing is equivalent to implying that he is also part of the “conspiracy” and that would make him a delinquent thug FBI agent.

[truthseeker2]

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

I agree.  I would be extremely disappointed to know that someone with the FBI would do that.  The only reason i could think of for them to do something like that would be if they thought information could be obtained by doing so.  Either way, it's a creepy thought.

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

If Shango is an FBI agent, he’s an incompetent creep.  Holding such a position empowers him with sufficient freedom to inform his superiors about the true meaning of the information he mysteriously tries to relay in the message board. To purposely give the impression that informing openly would be a threat to his personal integrity and wellbeing is equivalent to implying that he is also part of the “conspiracy” and that would make him a delinquent thug FBI agent.

I really messed that post up.


I agree.  I would be extremely disappointed to know that someone with the FBI would do that.  The only reason i could think of for them to do something like that would be if they thought information could be obtained by doing so.  Either way, it's a creepy thought.

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

[Vicki]

Simon says to break the alibi...the only one with the alibi is lorenzo...he was having a party...
could the two shivas be the kalpoo brothers? and could the Arawaks be american tourists??

[sharon]

Hi Vicki 

IMO, the reference to the '2 shivas' is definitely a refence to k2.

I think many readers agree with that -- maybe not.

Arawaks are a tribe that inhabited portions of the Caribbean in the days of pirates So, imo, that is not referring to the American toursists. But -- who knows??

In my interpretation -- the Arawaks are the Arubans and other native Caribbean residents -- versus the 'Dutch' residents. imo only. I'm not sure if it includes the every day 'aruban' or only those in government and official capacities.

Again -- just my interpretation of the 'riddle' 

[Stom]

Stom,

They actually posted up through July 30th, 2005.  This is the last post I have for Shango:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night

This is the last as Simian:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.
Posted Jun 30, 4:24 PM

I had seen the Shango post, but had forgotten about it.  I never saw the Simian's.  He sounds resentful!

[Stom]

A revision of believes about Shango is long overdue.  In the distance of passed time, the Shango comments clearly reveal an incoherent, dispersed and ad-lib manner of relaying senseless information.  They reveal also a subdued sense of humor, as well as the clear intention of ridiculing the Simian and encouraging Babaloo, Drax and anyone that dared to make outrageous interpretations of his meaningless comments.

The depiction of Aruba as a mysterious society where political and economic power holders conform an organized hierarchy of elders that control the island and direct activities of sexual perversion according to sect ranks, where the younger echelons recruit victims for reclusion, exploitation and subsequent disposal, is a by-product of Shango and the result of a social phenomena that took place within the internet communities.  A story was generated incidentally as countless interpretations of “The Riddles” were posted, all portraying that Aruba which individual posters perceived through the lines written by Shango.  The story has to be "unfictionized" if we are to have a clear path leading to discuss the most obvious participants in Natalee’s disappearance:  Paulus, maybe Joran, and whomever helped him/them.

Is anyone up for reviewing Shango in a new light?

[truthseeker2]

A revision of believes about Shango is long overdue.  In the distance of passed time, the Shango comments clearly reveal an incoherent, dispersed and ad-lib manner of relaying senseless information.  They reveal also a subdued sense of humor, as well as the clear intention of ridiculing the Simian and encouraging Babaloo, Drax and anyone that dared to make outrageous interpretations of his meaningless comments.

The depiction of Aruba as a mysterious society where political and economic power holders conform an organized hierarchy of elders that control the island and direct activities of sexual perversion according to sect ranks, where the younger echelons recruit victims for reclusion, exploitation and subsequent disposal, is a by-product of Shango and the result of a social phenomena that took place within the internet communities.  A story was generated incidentally as countless interpretations of “The Riddles” were posted, all portraying that Aruba which individual posters perceived through the lines written by Shango.  The story has to be "unfictionized" if we are to have a clear path leading to discuss the most obvious participants in Natalee’s disappearance:  Paulus, maybe Joran, and whomever helped him/them.

Is anyone up for reviewing Shango in a new light?

I am up to reviewing Shango just as it is written.  If that leads to curruption in Aruba then just because it comes from Shango does not mean that curruption is fictional.  As a result of reading Shango and reviewing comments from official statements by those in Aruba I do believe Van Der Straten is involved in any cover up and may have actually directed some of the activities after the fact.  Some may call that corrupt...and I would be one of them.

As far as The depiction of Aruba as a mysterious society where political and economic power holders conform an organized hierarchy of elders that control the island and direct activities of sexual perversion according to sect ranks, where the younger echelons recruit victims for reclusion, exploitation and subsequent disposal...to rule this out or to include it would be up to where the posts take us.  People should not arbitrarily assume that conditions such as these do not exist anywhere, because there is proof all over the world that this does happen.  If the posts lead there we cannot ignore it just because we don't like it.  Do you agree?

If you already have other interpretations in mind that let's do it.  (As long as those interpretations do not suggest that Beth had her child kidnapped or Natalee just simply ran away from her "terrible' life because that is not in Shango.  That would be discussing a "phenomena that took place within the internet" .)

[truthseeker2]

I should use spell check more often.

curruption = corruption

[sharon]

Stom

Nut44x4 made a few posts a few weeks back in the Natalee thread -- I will try to bring it over after work.

Nut found a Miami link to a Miguel Willy Ramos who is heavily Santeria involved (I think he may even use the name Shango)

I've posted some quick info that I've saved -- but Nut has better sources in the post.

These are items he 'authored'
Miguel "Willie" Ramos (Ilarí Obá)
The Empire Beats On (master thesis), Florida International University, Miami 2000
Ase Omo Osayin ... Ewe Aye, 1982 /1985
Seminario de Religion Yoruba: Santeria, 1988; ISBN 1877845051
Adimú: Gbogbó Tén'unjé Lukumí, Miami 2003
Oro...Egungun. Las honras de Egungun, Eleda.Org Publications, Miami
Dida Obi ... Adivinación a través del Coco, Carolina, Puerto Rico, 1982


here's a link from his grad school days
http://www.fiu.edu/~history/Students.htm


I've been wondering if 'Willy' was involved with our 'Shango'.

He was a grad student at FIU -- which I believe is where Jairo or Gabriel Leo (or whoever the Arubans in Ft Lauderdale working for AHATA are). The main campus is in Boca Raton -- there may be a campus in Miami as well.

It puts him in the vicintiy of Shango's 'IP' address.

Maybe he was the 'creative' consultant?? And our Aruban boys provided all the Marvel comics references?

Anyhoo -- it has intrigued me. Because I think it was a sham. And a mean spirited one. Maybe it didn't start that way. It sure turned out that way. And if the perpertrators live near me (I live in Miami -- 30 miles from Ft Lauderdale), I'd like to share my opinions with them 

[Vicki]

Hi Vicki 

IMO, the reference to the '2 shivas' is definitely a refence to k2.

I think many readers agree with that -- maybe not.

Arawaks are a tribe that inhabited portions of the Caribbean in the days of pirates So, imo, that is not referring to the American toursists. But -- who knows??

In my interpretation -- the Arawaks are the Arubans and other native Caribbean residents -- versus the 'Dutch' residents. imo only. I'm not sure if it includes the every day 'aruban' or only those in government and official capacities.

Again -- just my interpretation of the 'riddle' 

hey Sharon, thanks for that..I went back in Daves book and I think you are right.. I cant post here alot, Grandma with 9 grandlids3 of which I babysit..so please all of you its not that I dont want to but...I do believe weve on to something here and I will post more here..good job, everyone...CAn you please email me at JusticeforNatalee@gmail.com.

[Ree]

I'm new at all of this, escpecially the Shango Simian discussion, but is it possible Shango was FBI?  Watching what was happening, but not participating?

I agree.  I would be extremely disappointed to know that someone with the FBI would do that.  The only reason i could think of for them to do something like that would be if they thought information could be obtained by doing so.  Either way, it's a creepy thought.

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

If Shango is an FBI agent, he’s an incompetent creep.  Holding such a position empowers him with sufficient freedom to inform his superiors about the true meaning of the information he mysteriously tries to relay in the message board. To purposely give the impression that informing openly would be a threat to his personal integrity and wellbeing is equivalent to implying that he is also part of the “conspiracy” and that would make him a delinquent thug FBI agent.

I really messed that post up.


I agree.  I would be extremely disappointed to know that someone with the FBI would do that.  The only reason i could think of for them to do something like that would be if they thought information could be obtained by doing so.  Either way, it's a creepy thought.

That has definitely occurred to me more that once, but I would hate to think our FBI was trying to post information on a public forum. 

I'm not thinking of him being "the FBI", but rather an agent who has heard what's going on.  He's not happy they can't "break" them or investigate.  He gripes to the boss and is reminded that they were invited in to "observe" and told to keep his mouth shut.  He can't therefore, officially come out and say anything, but he can try to let us know that all is not as it seems.

[mrs. red]

I think I would be up for seeing it in a new light... I have wondered about several things including if dirtyhand was Julia... or one of her minions?  etc....

[Ree]

Stom,

They actually posted up through July 30th, 2005.  This is the last post I have for Shango:

Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:50 am
Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son
I must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking
Good Night

This is the last as Simian:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The music man will lose to a lettuce at a spelling bee. Do not accuse the man of being special.
Posted Jun 30, 4:24 PM

I had seen the Shango post, but had forgotten about it.  I never saw the Simian's.  He sounds resentful!

Always remember that what is unseen is greater than what is seen
All has been seen from afar
and whispered by olorum to an earthbound son

I interpret this as saying that there is a lot more going on than has been made public.  Electronic surveillance has told everything that was going on.  If I'm interpreting that correctly, then who were the messengers?

[Ree]

I think I would be up for seeing it in a new light... I have wondered about several things including if dirtyhand was Julia... or one of her minions?  etc....

I think you may have the body parts a little confused.  She's not DirtyHand, she's more like NastyAzz.

[JuJu]

I have read shango & simian a lot but I'm not even close to knowing what you all know.  I have been trying to think outside the box and have a question.  Is there any possibility that the "house of Rave" could be Carlos & Charlies?

[sharon]

I have read shango & simian a lot but I'm not even close to knowing what you all know.  I have been trying to think outside the box and have a question.  Is there any possibility that the "house of Rave" could be Carlos & Charlies?

JuJu -- since we don't know, anything is a possibility

And yes -- that is one of the possibility's that I have tossed around since the beginning.

My reasoning was based upon a few items:

1 -- of course, follow the music.....and a few other S/S references or allusions to things happening 'after hours'.

2 -- I still find it strange that Deepak drove around the block 3 times -- almost like waiting for everyone else (the other MB students) to leave the area, so that they could return without being seen

3 -- The 'stop' that we think Deepak made in the vicinity. Was it to buy drugs? To set up a caravan of cars? Or -- the 'ok -- we're ready' signal?

4 -- Deepak's place of work -- Internet Cafe -- being so close by. Short walk over to Internet cafe if computers are needed for uploading or transmitting anything. Or even setting up remote access.

5 -- In one of Joran's stories (PV, I think) when he discusses his sexual encounters with Karin Martina (I think) he describes her 'act' as occuring outside and pretty close to C&C. By the pier, iirc. I will hve to find that one -- because it has always stuck out in my mind. His 'MO'.

So many lies lead to so many possibilites