SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[Stom]

Stom,

You said: Shango’s mockery began on June 25th , by rephrasing Simian terminologies, or alluding to the Simian's thematic.

First, Shango referred to Babylonian/Babylon as a fake (in red), and as of June 26th, as himself.  Either way, the context within which Shango used the term is totally divorced from the Simian’s meaning.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:14 pm
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.

I do not read this as Shango/Simian referring to Babylonian/Babylon as a fake.  I see this as Shango/Simian indicating that the interests of Babylonians/Babylon is only in wealth.  They are more concerned about the tourist trade and the negative impact that would affect their investments.  I think this is where we see the internal struggle that goes on in Aruba between the ‘ruling class’ and the rest of the people.  I believe Sumerians refers to the same group that is referred to as Arawaks.  Many believe Shango was referring to the natives on Aruba.  Could be, but I would add that Arawaks could also be not just island natives but the ‘non-ruling class’ who are not closely connected to political parties and large business.  Basically, your regular working class people. (this is not unique to Aruba, this goes on everywhere)  I believe ALE has many Arawaks/Sumerians. 

This is the last post I find where the term Sumerian(s) is used.  From then on the term Arawak was used by both posters.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Simian, why was the key from the Babylons Palace not used to open the Sumerians Door ?
They have become famished and Eden is beckoning….

As far as the remaining posts, I do not see Shango calling anyone fake.  I do see him identifying a problem between Babylonians and Sumerians, (also called Arawaks).  These posts say to me that the people in Aruba do not have confidence in the ruling class, those making the decisions.

Maybe I have misunderstood what you meant by ‘fake’.   If so, please enlighten me as to what you intended for us to see.

Also, since you say Shango/Simian’s use of the term is divvorced from Simian’s meaning, what so you believe Simian’s meaning actually was?

From the real Simian:

 Name: Simian | Posted Jun 30, 11:01 AM
The Simian got friggin’ tired. I.e. the Simian never mentioned any Sumerians. What does that mean? By the way, in Caribbean slang the “Babylon” is the Police.

The post above, which you quoted after the one I am replying to, indicates that the Simian never wrote the comment in red, above.  I think whomever Shango is wrote it, therefore Shango used the term Babylonian as a "fake Simian" before he became Shango himself.

Simian uses the term Babylonian to consistently mean ALE, as you clearly state, but not Shango.

[truthseeker2]

I think we agree.  This post was not from the real Simain and could have been Shango before he began using the nickname of Shango.

Simian on June 25th, 2005 10:14 pm
The Babylonians cared only for their gold and did not hear the Sumerians plot their demise. In the morning, at the point it was realized, it was too late.

This post, however, did come from Simian and was not a mocking post made by Shango.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.

The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.

Since we can agree that Shango was out there posting even before we knew of him, does that necessarily mean that Shango was mocking Simian because he did not like Simian posting the information from ALE?  I don't know.  I think Shango broadened the definition of Babylon/Babylonian for whatever reason.  You could be right, but it's hard to tell.  Since I don't know the basics of the Aruban society it is difficult for me to determine which poster may have actually known something more than was being publicized.  I think we agree that Simian was communicating with someone close to the investigation.  Shango, on the other hand, never makes a claim to be close to anyone in Aruba.  Yet, does that mean he did not have information?

As Shango said:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state

[Stom]

This post, however, did come from Simian and was not a mocking post made by Shango.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
The cowboys have only so much gold. The territory is rough. There are many secrets, but the Arawaks are helping.

The palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most.

Correction noted.  I assume you have already verified through Klaasend that this is a valid comment

Since we can agree that Shango was out there posting even before we knew of him, does that necessarily mean that Shango was mocking Simian because he did not like Simian posting the information from ALE?  I don't know.  I think Shango broadened the definition of Babylon/Babylonian for whatever reason.  You could be right, but it's hard to tell.  Since I don't know the basics of the Aruban society it is difficult for me to determine which poster may have actually known something more than was being publicized.  I think we agree that Simian was communicating with someone close to the investigation.  Shango, on the other hand, never makes a claim to be close to anyone in Aruba.  Yet, does that mean he did not have information?

The possibility that he/she/they was/were posting before we knew of him/her/them as Shango does not imply that he was he was mocking Simian, but the possibility that he became a fake Simian to use the latter’s terminologies to write comments contrary to the original, in indicative of an intent to mock and ridicule.  In the very least is indicative of wanting to have some fun.

If Shango mutated and as that personality used Babylonian to mean Dutch, Paulus, Joran, and introduced concepts such as Babylonian Palace, Babylonian card, House of Babylon, Babylonian wind, Babylonian trade, Babylon interference; and describes Babylonians that live in teepees wanting to maintain the integrity of the Great House, while Babylon will have to pay the price because the gods know that the Babylonians are to blame…doesn’t this seem too much to you?  Doesn’t this just seem senseless?  Doesn’t this just seem as “orchested” as the gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir?

I believe Shango first impersonated the Simian, picked on and mocked him, insistently addressed him and paraphrased him in an antagonistic manner.  He then developed his comments free-style, as reactions were posted.  He reinforced and further aroused people’s fascination for experiencing the mysterious and even, the occult. 

Shango didn’t have any validity and he never conveyed any meaningful message.  His/Her/Their message meanings are a collection of conjectures posted by forum and blog constructionists and a repetition effect.

I don’t doubt Shango knows a lot of people in Aruba.  Shango is/are from Aruba or live/lives in Aruba.  If they posted from Florida, it just means they were there visiting.  I think if we go back to threads before 1190, we can find posters that express scorn for the Simian, mock him and express themselves just like Robalo33.  Maybe they are Shango’s predecessors.

As Shango said:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
The simplicity of Occams Razor is often outweighed by the complexity of maintaining factors in an elemental state

Shango is showing off...Ockham's razor is precisely about maintaing entities in an elemental state, and he is in fact the antithesis of the law of succinctness...he does multiply entities beyond necessity.  So why does he preach, if he is no tenet of reductionism, but one with a propensity to complicate.  He is not a razor, and therefore does not cut away metaphorical concepts. 

So following "the simplicity of Occam's Razor", we should cut out all the features of the Shango theory that are not observable.  What do we have left?  Nothing!

[truthseeker2]

Stom wrote:
If Shango mutated and as that personality used Babylonian to mean Dutch, Paulus, Joran, and introduced concepts such as Babylonian Palace, Babylonian card, House of Babylon, Babylonian wind, Babylonian trade, Babylon interference; and describes Babylonians that live in teepees wanting to maintain the integrity of the Great House, while Babylon will have to pay the price because the gods know that the Babylonians are to blame…doesn’t this seem too much to you?  Doesn’t this just seem senseless?  Doesn’t this just seem as “orchested” as the gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir?

Whether it is senseless may only be determined if the truth comes out.  If we eventually find out that it was not an elaborate cover up, but simply an accidental death that was poorly investigated, then I would have to say Shango was full of it.  But...we still do not have answers so I cannot concede anything at this point.

As far as Shango using Simain's term Babylon/Babylonian you could only make an argument for Shango reinventing the definition to encompass all who have some level of authority.  Simian says 'police', Shango seems to include more than just police.  Now, do I find this senseless?  I don't know yet.  Like I said, no answers, no concession.  Shango paints a picture of a ruling class that has a stranglehold on all others.  He seems to imply that many on the island don't like it but they accept these conditions in order to stay on Aruba.  I don't find that concept completely ridiculous and do understand how this could happen.

Also, when you consider the history of Babylon/Babylonians it does seem to indicate the Dutch in Aruba more than anything else.  Shango originally used the term Sumerians who were overtaken and eventually ruled by the Babylonians.  The Sumerians were very prosperous on their own and did not need the Babylonians in order to survive.  Simain, on the other hand, chose the term Arawaks which I believe to mean the earlier inhabitants of Aruba.  Those who settled there long before the Dutch arrived.  Shango eventually abandoned the term Sumerians and began using the term Arawaks.  One could draw similarities here as I think Shango did.  Was there a purpose as it relates to Natalee?  Neither you or I know for certain.

When you step away from Simian and Shango and try to answer the obvious questions you will often come to one of two conclusions:

1.Natalee died accidentally.  The problem with that conclusion is that it does not seem rational based on the lies that started from the very beginning.  If she died accidentally, even if Joran & Co. were in a panic, they could have and should have just told the truth after the first story was proven to be a lie.  But they continued to lie and implicate each other.  Why do that if you can garner sympathy and claim she had consensual sex and took drugs on her own?  (It's not like she could say differently.)  If that were the case and they hid the body I doubt the penalty for a Dutch kid in Aruba would be very stiff for disposing of a body.

or

2.One or more people were involved in the death of Natalee.  Now, given all the lies told by Joran and possibly by the Kalpoes leaves a lot to the imagination.  One thing is very clear...ALE has clearly stated that Natalee is not alive.  Van Der Straten, Dompig, Richardson.  Even Karin Jansen was having people arrested on charges of premeditated murder, heavy battery, kidnapping, etc.  Why?  This is the type of thing that became fodder for the bloggers.  Why do all that if there is a chance that she ran away or was taken off the island by her own family.  It makes no sense unless they had sufficient information that led to the conclusion that Natalee was dead.  This is what has ignited the cries of "cover-up". 

Do Simian and/or Shango know more about this?  Possibly.

[COLOMBO]

re- O.J. Simpson:

http://**/news/9827732.html
excerpt: "One of the first things Las Vegas police did after the incident was view the surveillance tapes at Palace Station."

Simian: "the palace is open to all, but the palace is a maze to most"

Shango: "if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand."

here is the card game he references:
-Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too.
-Simian, older PVDS had one ot two cards up his sleeve. They have been played, and lost. Will one of the cards sing?
-The Arawaks may not need to play the singing card
-The maze of Babylon is very difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

Shango: "Threadsurfers are opening a window overlooking babylon" [DirtyHand]

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it (judge? when was PVDS ever a judge? A clue......)

[Chester]

Well, Shango/Simian knows how to dupe people, that's for sure.

There rantings belong with the Bacchus and Charles Croes stuff.

If they knew something they would tell.  They don't know anything so they play these little pointless riddling games.

Frankly I would like to see board devoted to Shango and the Med Jet conspiracy theory, both of which are equally full of B.S. in my opinion.

The Arawaks?  Give me a break.  Bad science fiction, nothing more.

[distortion]

Well, Shango/Simian knows how to dupe people, that's for sure.

There rantings belong with the Bacchus and Charles Croes stuff.

If they knew something they would tell.  They don't know anything so they play these little pointless riddling games.

Frankly I would like to see board devoted to Shango and the Med Jet conspiracy theory, both of which are equally full of B.S. in my opinion.

The Arawaks?  Give me a break.  Bad science fiction, nothing more.

On the mainland of South America there are some 2,450 (1980 census) Arawaks living in Venezuela, Guyana, Suriname, and French Guyana with 2,051 in Suriname. The Caribs on mainland South America number 10,225 (2000 WCD) in Venezuela, Guyana, Suriname, and French Guyana. The majority of the populations of Puerto Rico and Aruba are descended in part from the Arawaks.

[Lala'sMom]

Well, Shango/Simian knows how to dupe people, that's for sure.

There rantings belong with the Bacchus and Charles Croes stuff.

If they knew something they would tell.  They don't know anything so they play these little pointless riddling games.

Frankly I would like to see board devoted to Shango and the Med Jet conspiracy theory, both of which are equally full of B.S. in my opinion.

The Arawaks?  Give me a break.  Bad science fiction, nothing more.

My dear Chester, this IS the Shango thread.  The Med Jet conspiracy is ridiculous if you are trying to make it sound as if they secreted Natalee off the island via med jet.  Actually, these two things are not even related.  And what about the Arawaks?  Depends on what you think they are...ALE or Native Islanders.  Different meanings depending on the was they are used.  Same with Babylonians.  No one has ever said they were not trying to distract things, Shango in one direction and Simian in the other.  Could you elaborate a bit more on the Bacchus and CC part, I am confused as to what you mean. TIA

[San]

Well, Shango/Simian knows how to dupe people, that's for sure.

There rantings belong with the Bacchus and Charles Croes stuff.

If they knew something they would tell.  They don't know anything so they play these little pointless riddling games.

Frankly I would like to see board devoted to Shango and the Med Jet conspiracy theory, both of which are equally full of B.S. in my opinion.

The Arawaks?  Give me a break.  Bad science fiction, nothing more.

My dear Chester, this IS the Shango thread.  The Med Jet conspiracy is ridiculous if you are trying to make it sound as if they secreted Natalee off the island via med jet.  Actually, these two things are not even related.  And what about the Arawaks?  Depends on what you think they are...ALE or Native Islanders.  Different meanings depending on the was they are used.  Same with Babylonians.  No one has ever said they were not trying to distract things, Shango in one direction and Simian in the other.  Could you elaborate a bit more on the Bacchus and CC part, I am confused as to what you mean. TIA

Chester if you think Simian and Shango are nothing but BS there are other threads to read on the forum.

I find it particularly interesting out of all the threads on this forum you chose this one to make your first public appearance.

People are free to discuss Shango and Simian all they want on this thread and also in the Musings thread.

Are you saying Bacus and CCroes are full of shit with their statements.  I too would like you to elaborate.

[Chester]

Here is the famous Charles Croes statement.

It's complete piffle, in my opinion, dressed up to sound significant but completely devoid of  meaning.

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.I wish all of us strength

charles

"Issues that can go beyond the obvious in their implications...Some will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected."

Christmas!

Mr. Bacchus's exact statement eludes me but it was similar generalized garbage that means nothing.

If someone knows something they will say what they know and not doll it up with a bunch of meaningless psuedo-significant poetic garbage.

If Shango or Croes know something, they can spit it out.  They have chosen not to.  So my conclusion is that they know nothing.

[sharon]

 

piffle

 

[Lala'sMom]

Here is the famous Charles Croes statement.

It's complete piffle, in my opinion, dressed up to sound significant but completely devoid of  meaning.

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.I wish all of us strength

charles

"Issues that can go beyond the obvious in their implications...Some will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected."

Christmas!

Mr. Bacchus's exact statement eludes me but it was similar generalized garbage that means nothing.

If someone knows something they will say what they know and not doll it up with a bunch of meaningless psuedo-significant poetic garbage.

If Shango or Croes know something, they can spit it out.  They have chosen not to.  So my conclusion is that they know nothing.

And again....your point being??

[San]

Here is the famous Charles Croes statement.

It's complete piffle, in my opinion, dressed up to sound significant but completely devoid of  meaning.

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.I wish all of us strength

charles

"Issues that can go beyond the obvious in their implications...Some will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected."

Christmas!

Mr. Bacchus's exact statement eludes me but it was similar generalized garbage that means nothing.

If someone knows something they will say what they know and not doll it up with a bunch of meaningless psuedo-significant poetic garbage.

If Shango or Croes know something, they can spit it out.  They have chosen not to.  So my conclusion is that they know nothing.

Shango might have known something.  If I lived in Aruba I would be afraid to reveal exactly what I knew due to fear of being killed Aruba style.

We may never know what Charles Croes meant by his statement.  But I would have to think he knew something because even Jug Twitty said Charles Croes can put the pieces together like a puzzle or something like that.

Senator Baccus' statement said this is not a teen that just ran away.  I think he knew more.

For me personally I would not reveal one word of what I know and make it public knowledge.

[Kermit]

Exposing the truth publically may be the best form of protection

[San]

Exposing the truth publically may be the best form of protection

It might be the best form of protection for people like the Kalpoes.  For people like Beth I would not reveal everything I know just yet.

[nuntukamen]

Here is the famous Charles Croes statement.

It's complete piffle, in my opinion, dressed up to sound significant but completely devoid of  meaning.

There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications.It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you.I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved.I wish all of us strength

charles

"Issues that can go beyond the obvious in their implications...Some will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected."

Christmas!

Mr. Bacchus's exact statement eludes me but it was similar generalized garbage that means nothing.

If someone knows something they will say what they know and not doll it up with a bunch of meaningless psuedo-significant poetic garbage.

If Shango or Croes know something, they can spit it out.  They have chosen not to.  So my conclusion is that they know nothing.

political ramifications of small island living might alter your big city formula of determining b.s.

[steve]

Does Shango mention a gate or a key?

Ayo rock formations/Casibari




The rock looks like King Kong....

[Lala'sMom]

Does Shango mention a gate or a key?

Ayo rock formations/Casibari




The rock looks like King Kong....

What is behind that gate?  Can you go inside as in some type of cave? 

[steve]

It's a tourist stop
To view the huge boulders and view of Aruba
It's just north of Hooiberg

It has been described as a maze/network of "paved roads
that are off an unpaved road"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayo_Rock_Formations

I'm wondering if someone had a key to this locked gate at night

[steve]

To tie this area in with the am phone call from Santa Lucia-

Donkey Santuary-in Santa Lucia
Between Ayo rocks and northcoast (Nat'l Bridge, Boca Mahos)

Directions: Take highway 6-A towards Ayo Rock Formations
and follow the "green apple" signs.
Website: www.arubadonkey.org

Santa Lucia:
Ayo Rock Formations
Rancho del Campo
Rancho Daimari
Donkey Sanctuary