SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[MumInOhio]

I thought Freddy was somewhere else first, like Club Bahai? There was alot of discussion on the board about this. Klaas had a photo of him at Champions IIRC. Thanks Pita, thought Marriott, but couldn't remember Champions.

Choose-a-name...Pitbull and where Deepak allegedly stopped after C&Cs,burned down.

Lala's...Nut posted top of page 45 about Koen and his alibi. Koen is also mentioned a little differently, ie Sander...brother of Koen in the Discovery Log Timeline. Also recall something about Freddy and his Dad meeting at the Sloots and Freddy's Dad walking out on the meeting. Do not know if this had anything to do with Paulus geting Freddy a lawyer.

I think it's in the Mirian Ernest link about was 'the hand placed there'. I recall seeing the entire picture and it looked real to me.

Nut...something in there about 'frames on the wall' again I think Merian Ernest,reminded me of the judges too. Will go back later and see if I can find both. Need to look at all that dirty hand/Dirty Hand stuff again!

[Lala'sMom]

Hold on Mum...I can't do more than one at a time..I get too confused.  I want to explore the Freddy angle to it's end.  Check out this and see what fits. My answers in red...to be the 5th suspect they all have to fit...according to Simian..the person with ALE connections.

In order to be the 5th suspect you have to meet these criteria:

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind. YES
2. He was the HOST of this party.Don't know if he hosted it.  Where was this party?
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left. According to the timeline documents...YES.  It was two girls.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "others". Don't know what "others" means?  Anyone?
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. Don't know.
6. The alibi worked for him.  Walked away from the porn video charges. YES.
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did. Don't know.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.


Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.

[Nut44x4]

MUM.......

Forked tongues with framed reputations on their walls.

[Nut44x4]

IMO Dennis Jacobs doesn't have brains enough to be Dirty Hand nor does he have the 'status'. He is a nobody compared to the many higher ups in this mess.

[BlueKYGirl]

I always thought the 5th suspect was Lorenzo, as he was known to throw parties at his house and there were lots of rumors at the beginning that Natalee had been there. I also thought the 5th suspect referred to the 5th arrest, and there was some debate about whether the 5th person to be questioned was Lorenzo or Paulus.

There are people who are much more schooled on Codetalkers than I am, though, so maybe there's a reason why it can't be Lorenzo. I don't know if there's any evidence that he and Natalee met earlier in the week. Frankly he seems a little sleazy to me (and too old for Natalee)--not someone she'd go after. She seems like the type who would go for nice, clean-cut boys her own age--or at least ones that seemed nice and clean-cut.

But do we have any concrete reason to believe that the 5th suspect is NOT Lorenzo?

[MumInOhio]

I'm digesting all that Lala's and don't want to confuse but found this from when Freddie was arrested with the Kalpoes, August 2005. Remember A.B arrested with GVC for 6 hours the following April.

Police also arrested another man; a friend and neighbor of lead suspect Joran van der Sloot, Freddie Aaron Batiz (ph). 

[MumInOhio]

Nut that was one and another about the elder - Paulus - knew his way around the palace corridors. Halls of Justice, maybe.


BlueKyGirl...we looked at the discoverylog timeline on Saturday and it appears that from 6/17 to 6/24, I think, that Freddy may not have been only a witness. The girls Lalas referred to are listed during that time as friends of van der Sloot/Arambatziz. Whereas before Freddie was listed as a friend of Jorans'. It appears the way it is listed that Freddie, to me anyway, was also a suspect. 'One witness is not a witness.'

Lala's...be back later tonight to read. I read better at night.LOL

[MumInOhio]

Recall something about a family reunion and Freddie's brother was discussed a long time ago here. Freddie's Dad left the meeting with the van der Sloots. Could his Dad be such a strong alibi? Someone his Dad knew?

LOL...confusing myself now...spell Freddy and then Freddie!!!!

[MumInOhio]

Lala's...Found this at the judicial inc site under accomplices


In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

Somebody needs to ask Jossy about this!!!
 

[BlueKYGirl]

BlueKyGirl...we looked at the discoverylog timeline on Saturday and it appears that from 6/17 to 6/24, I think, that Freddy may not have been only a witness. The girls Lalas referred to are listed during that time as friends of van der Sloot/Arambatziz. Whereas before Freddie was listed as a friend of Jorans'. It appears the way it is listed that Freddie, to me anyway, was also a suspect. 'One witness is not a witness.'

So if Freddy was in fact classified as a suspect, you're saying he'd be the 5th one and the person these clues are referring to. If only Shango would come back and clarify everything for us!

[BlueKYGirl]

Lala's...Found this at the judicial inc site under accomplices


In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

Somebody needs to ask Jossy about this!!!
 

Sometimes I get all the pimps mixed up. Was Freddy Joran's best friend, the one that Deepak said knew the truth?

I seem to confuse Freddy and Guido most of all.

[Pita]

Lala's...Found this at the judicial inc site under accomplices


In this interview Jossy Mansur confirms Freddie Arambatzis-Zedan is now being held in prison. Mansur explains that he takes sexual pictures of “unsuspecting” girls and then sells it. The girls are apparently aware and okay with the picture taking, however not with the distribution of them. No offense but I think if you allow someone to take a picture of you, especially one that claims to be “Locoman Pimp”, you should be well aware of his intent. Mansur says this guy was held in the beginning of the investigation and obviously the media was not made aware of this. Jossy says he is probably being held because of a false alibi for Joran van der Sloot he initially gave police.

Somebody needs to ask Jossy about this!!!
 

Sometimes I get all the pimps mixed up. Was Freddy Joran's best friend, the one that Deepak said knew the truth?

I seem to confuse Freddy and Guido most of all.

Yes, it was Freddy.

[Lala'sMom]

IMO Dennis Jacobs doesn't have brains enough to be Dirty Hand nor does he have the 'status'. He is a nobody compared to the many higher ups in this mess.

Many dirty hands...for many years...

[Lala'sMom]

Okay, now we are getting somewhere.  Thanks guys for all the help.

Now, help me establish that Freddy was the HOST of the party and that he actually met Natalee a few days before Joran at the casino.  Simian says it was at the casino and then Joran comes into the picture.  Freddy has to meet all the criteria to be 5th suspect.

[Lala'sMom]

I'm digesting all that Lala's and don't want to confuse but found this from when Freddie was arrested with the Kalpoes, August 2005. Remember A.B arrested with GVC for 6 hours the following April.

Police also arrested another man; a friend and neighbor of lead suspect Joran van der Sloot, Freddie Aaron Batiz (ph). 

Is there anything in the Dr Phil stuff that fits GVC and Freddy in the same date? TIA

[Lala'sMom]

I always thought the 5th suspect was Lorenzo, as he was known to throw parties at his house and there were lots of rumors at the beginning that Natalee had been there. I also thought the 5th suspect referred to the 5th arrest, and there was some debate about whether the 5th person to be questioned was Lorenzo or Paulus.

There are people who are much more schooled on Codetalkers than I am, though, so maybe there's a reason why it can't be Lorenzo. I don't know if there's any evidence that he and Natalee met earlier in the week. Frankly he seems a little sleazy to me (and too old for Natalee)--not someone she'd go after. She seems like the type who would go for nice, clean-cut boys her own age--or at least ones that seemed nice and clean-cut.

But do we have any concrete reason to believe that the 5th suspect is NOT Lorenzo?

In order to be the 5th suspect you have to meet these criteria:

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind.
2. He was the HOST of this party.
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "others".
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before.
6. The alibi worked for him.
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did.

[Lala'sMom]

and lest there be doubters as to what I am talking about...there always is..

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.


Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.

[MumInOhio]

Whatley's FBI statement page 2 Important Case Documents. She and Natalee went to the bar next door - the Marriott. Sorry got to run!

[truthseeker2]

Whatley's FBI statement page 2 Important Case Documents. She and Natalee went to the bar next door - the Marriott. Sorry got to run!

Interesting...If you line up the hotels going north to south they would be:

Marriott Resort
Marriott Ocean Club
Holiday Inn Sunspree Resort and Casino
Playa Linda Beach Resort

If Freddy worked at the Marriott he could have met the girls before Joran because of the proximity of the two hotels.

Also, if I understood correctly, Joran's gambling friend, Andre, lived near the Marriott.

[Lala'sMom]

Whatley's FBI statement page 2 Important Case Documents. She and Natalee went to the bar next door - the Marriott. Sorry got to run!

So the question now would be...did Freddy do more than just pour a drink for Natalee?  Could he have paid a little extra attention to her?  Was he the older man that was sen to be talking with Natalee at lunch one day?  Can you get lunch in the place where Freddy worked? Did his shift coincide with that time?  Does anyone have any idea?