SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[truthseeker2]

Well, I guess no one is interested right now.  I will check back later.  I need to rest my feet.

Sorry I was late.  I had a commitment I needed to keep.  I never stand my granson up!  He's in bed now....so Tango at will!

[klaasend]

Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):

[truthseeker2]

Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):

Very interesting posts, Klaas.  Do we know where those posts came from?

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….

Not the Lamb, not the Shivas, but... the babylonians

[Tamikosmom]

Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.

Your campaign will probably not win many converts here, but hey, you had to try.

Come on, guys. That's not fair. I'm not running a 'campaign', I'm just keeping all options open and testing a hypothesis. Why these emotional responses? Why not just convince me with arguments?

I've spent since June 9th (the Jensen show) on trying to conceive of a plausible scenarios based on the available evidence that only involves J2K + maybe Paulus. Jon (from Scrux) has made a good analysis and reflected that in his essay. But like with many on the web, there seems to be a natural inclination that when you get stuck, you'd start to open up your mind for other scenarios. 

For what it's worth, my first reaction on the Jenfro story is here:

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054

I still believe it's a pretty nuanced view, although it also intends to hold up the mirror for those who believe that no other scenario's then "J2K did it" and "Aruba is a backward, corrupt and cheating country" exist. I'm from the Netherlands and actually don't feel constraints in considering other any scenario, even if my country would be embarassed by it.

Awareness of a bias is the first step...

fierljepper,

The biggest problem I have with your MB kids met up with Nat and J to go to Lorenzo's party where she died and they all agreed not to tell is that:

1. Joran and K2's lied right off the bat about the HI.  That never happened and they admitted it later.  No reason to lie and say she fell and hit her head if she had died of a drug overdose.

2. Once they were caught in the lie I do not believe Joran would sit in jail that long and involve his entire family just to protect some kids from MB.  That makes absolutely no sense to me.

3. According to Joran's book translation, Van Der Straten told Joran he would make sure he didn't have to go to prison and would go to a mental hospital instead.  Yet Joran doesn't say anything about the MB kids then or now.  Doesn't make sense especially since the island he says he loves is taking a big hit.

These points are just off the top of my head and I know I can provide you with even more if I spent more time on it.

And you should know...I never create a post based on emotion.  Sorry to disappoint you there, but I am an analyst by profession and I prefer to deal in facts and real possiblities.  To be totally truthful with you, two years ago I was tempted to believe the MB students were more involved than we were being told.  But, after two years of proven lies coming from Aruba I no longer feel that is the case.  Nor am I biased.  I have been following this since the very beginning and have kept up with the details.  For you to assume that I am biased may just be a bias that you have yourself.  Is that possible as well?

Truthseeker ... my sentiments exactly.  Thank you very much.

I promised myself one year ago that I would never again debate with trolls who have an obvious Aruban agenda to distance Paulus and Joran from implication in the events encompassing the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing by shifting the focus of blame on Natalee, Beth, MB students, FBI, Jossy and the American media.  I broke my promise today but ... it will never happened again.

Janet

[truthseeker2]

Truthseeker ... my sentiments exactly.  Thank you very much.

I promised myself one year ago that I would never again debate with trolls who have an obvious Aruban agenda to distance Paulus and Joran from implication in the events encompassing the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing by shifting the focus of blame on Natalee, Beth, MB students, FBI, Jossy and the American media.  I broke my promise today but ... it will never happened again.

Janet

Janet,
Idon't know if this guy is a troll or if he really believes what he is saying.  Either way, the facts so far do not support the MB kids being involved in what happened to Natalee after she left CnC's in the early morning hours of 5/30/05.  I suppose they can speculate all they want, but it was Joran and the Kalpoes that Natalee was last seen with and those guys lied from the very beginning.  We have seen their PV's and Joran has lied some many times in just the PV's we've seen.  No telling what lies he told in the ones we haven't seen.

There is not a single person that can convince me that Joran lied to cover for a tourist.  That doesn't make any sense what so ever.

[klaasend]

TS - no, we don't know right now anything about the Loesge poster.

[Tamikosmom]

I recognize from fierljepper words that he is upholding an Aruban agenda that distances Joran and Paulus from implication and ... shifts the focus of blame on Natalee and the MB students.  Something akin to Julia, Angela and many posters who have up until today posted only on other sites.

Klaas ... I wasted precious time playing the troll game on CTV and BFN and ... I will not go back there.  It takes away from my objective ... Justice for Natalee.

I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation in Aruban is denying justice to an eighteen year old American citizens who went missing on Aruban soil under suspicious circumstances.  I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation is protecting the main suspects from taking responsibility for their role in the events encompassing the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.  I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation has been putting the family of Natalee Holloway through a H--- on Earth for over two years.  These determinations are the starting points where my dialoging on the Natalee Holloway case begins. 

Janet 

[Lala'sMom]

Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA [/i]


Where is this house supposed to be located?  Could it be Lorenzo's?  Was there a party there?  This is interesting for sure.  This is more in line with Shango than Simian. 

[Lala'sMom]

I recognize from fierljepper words that he is upholding an Aruban agenda that distances Joran and Paulus from implication and ... shifts the focus of blame on Natalee and the MB students.  Something akin to Julia, Angela and many posters who have up until today posted only on other sites.

Klaas ... I wasted precious time playing the troll game on CTV and BFN and ... I will not go back there.  It takes away from my objective ... Justice for Natalee.

I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation in Aruban is denying justice to an eighteen year old American citizens who went missing on Aruban soil under suspicious circumstances.  I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation is protecting the main suspects from taking responsibility for their role in the events encompassing the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.  I determined through countless hours of research that a corrupt investigation has been putting the family of Natalee Holloway through a H--- on Earth for over two years.  These determinations are the starting points where my dialoging on the Natalee Holloway case begins. 

Janet 

Even trolls serve a purpose.  They cause us to recheck our ideas and try to verify where we can.  It's what they don't understand.  As long as they are polite, I don't mind them too much.  I just keep my barfdoll handy.

[bleachedblack]

Amsterdam Manor is gold........maybe this was the golden maze. My feeling is there has to be a particular place, probably a hotel that tourists in general are taken when found passed out, drunk on the beach, or wherever until they can sleep it off. Maybe they brought Natalee to this place?

[truthseeker2]

Not Shango/Simian but an interresting post from back in April 2006 on the front page of SM (the forum was down at the time):

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA [/i]


Where is this house supposed to be located?  Could it be Lorenzo's?  Was there a party there?  This is interesting for sure.  This is more in line with Shango than Simian. 

Given that Shango made this post as all of the posters were discussing Lorenzo makes me think that it does have something to do with him. Isn't his house on a dirt road?

[Lala'sMom]

The Wyndham.  How many times have we looked at those photos inside that hotel room and said that's the Wyndham?  Those keys that Deepak had. ( I know someone said he had some type of key in hi pocket). The guards...the guards...the photo of the black team...even Simian mentions them.  Merian Ernest mentions Bill's lodgings.  Tylergal always said there was a connection.   She was picked out in the casino by Paulus and obtained by Joran.  For his trouble he gets to sample the merchandise, but it didn't go as planned.  Could they really have left her on the beach to be taken?  Taken by those that should protect her?  I actually liked it better when all I thought about was Shango and his crazy riddles.  The thoughts here bother me even more than I want to admit.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

[truthseeker2]

The Wyndham.  How many times have we looked at those photos inside that hotel room and said that's the Wyndham?  Those keys that Deepak had. ( I know someone said he had some type of key in hi pocket). The guards...the guards...the photo of the black team...even Simian mentions them.  Merian Ernest mentions Bill's lodgings.  Tylergal always said there was a connection.   She was picked out in the casino by Paulus and obtained by Joran.  For his trouble he gets to sample the merchandise, but it didn't go as planned.  Could they really have left her on the beach to be taken?  Taken by those that should protect her?  I actually liked it better when all I thought about was Shango and his crazy riddles.  The thoughts here bother me even more than I want to admit.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

I think Bill lodgings is a reference to the Marriott.  The owner's first name is William.

[Lala'sMom]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response


 Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.
Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM |

[Lala'sMom]

The Wyndham.  How many times have we looked at those photos inside that hotel room and said that's the Wyndham?  Those keys that Deepak had. ( I know someone said he had some type of key in hi pocket). The guards...the guards...the photo of the black team...even Simian mentions them.  Merian Ernest mentions Bill's lodgings.  Tylergal always said there was a connection.   She was picked out in the casino by Paulus and obtained by Joran.  For his trouble he gets to sample the merchandise, but it didn't go as planned.  Could they really have left her on the beach to be taken?  Taken by those that should protect her?  I actually liked it better when all I thought about was Shango and his crazy riddles.  The thoughts here bother me even more than I want to admit.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

I think Bill lodgings is a reference to the Marriott.  The owner's first name is William.

Of course, did I say it was the Wyndham?  I am sure you are correct. Sorry.

[truthseeker2]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response


 

My impression of this post:

Paulus is the card of Babylon.  If he speaks the truth about Van Der Straaten’s role in Aruba will either have the Netherlands (Queen) very angry or will implicate Holland in some wrongdoings.  The politicians are overing less than the truth and will sacrifice one of the guilty to keep the full story from being heard.  This problem has existed in Aruba for a long time and many of the older generation are still involved.  It’s right in front of the Americans, but they do not see it for what it is.  The Netherlands politicians and the ruling class are afraid of the Americans’ reaction if they find out.

[truthseeker2]

The Wyndham.  How many times have we looked at those photos inside that hotel room and said that's the Wyndham?  Those keys that Deepak had. ( I know someone said he had some type of key in hi pocket). The guards...the guards...the photo of the black team...even Simian mentions them.  Merian Ernest mentions Bill's lodgings.  Tylergal always said there was a connection.   She was picked out in the casino by Paulus and obtained by Joran.  For his trouble he gets to sample the merchandise, but it didn't go as planned.  Could they really have left her on the beach to be taken?  Taken by those that should protect her?  I actually liked it better when all I thought about was Shango and his crazy riddles.  The thoughts here bother me even more than I want to admit.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ‘cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

I think Bill lodgings is a reference to the Marriott.  The owner's first name is William.

Of course, did I say it was the Wyndham?  I am sure you are correct. Sorry.

No need to apologize.  I do believe there is a Wyndham connect here somewhere.

[bleachedblack]

Places like the Marriott and HI are very large, always busy even in the middle of the night. The thing about a place which is smaller is it is discrete. Amsterdam manor is the place the sloots lived when they first moved to aruba.

Low Rise Visibility Team Kick Off Party At Amsterdam Manor

http://tinyurl.com/34gwd2

[truthseeker2]

Places like the Marriott and HI are very large, always busy even in the middle of the night. The thing about a place which is smaller is it is discrete. Amsterdam manor is the place the sloots lived when they first moved to aruba.

Low Rise Visibility Team Kick Off Party At Amsterdam Manor

http://tinyurl.com/34gwd2

That is very interesting.  I have not seen this before.

[truthseeker2]

From my earlier post:

The politicians are overing less than the truth

Should be

The politicians are offering less than the truth