SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[MumInOhio]

I thought the guy with short hair was Leo Burke or Burke Leo, can't remember, member of ALE and suspected of being one of the riddlers.

Clyde Burke....iirc, he's a musician as well as ALE.   

Lots of musicians...Paulus...Rudy Croes...

Darn Lala's will be mad...Colombo was here 

[2NJSons_Mom]

I thought the guy with short hair was Leo Burke or Burke Leo, can't remember, member of ALE and suspected of being one of the riddlers.

Clyde Burke....iirc, he's a musician as well as ALE.   

Lots of musicians...Paulus...Rudy Croes...

Darn Lala's will be mad...Colombo was here 

Yes, and I read Colombo's post 5 times trying to understand....not sure where the quotes end there......last sentence said Simian seems to be a Babylonian...did Colombo really say that, or did someone else?   

[Anna]

Even though Shango may have been "into" Marvel comic books doesn't mean he didn't know the routine on that rock. MOO

Seems just about everybody knew the routine on that rock, lol.

Except, of course, the intended marks, the young female American tourists.  Even Dennis Jacobs knew the routine and said so.

I believe some of the rave talk was the other game of chollers taking tourists to drug houses, etc.

Lots of games in Aruba.

.

[Anna]

Lala's,
I will look late tonight for any more pics I still have Shango related.  I have some that I have no idea what they pertain to but are filed under Holloway files.  Will post if I find anything I think relates to S/S.

.

[Observer]

Automatically translated text:   
On Sunday, June 19, 2005 19:33 wrote milagro the following:

     [..]

     Ms. strange it is, yes.

     That son has a kind of thought I appartementje own, to his parents' house, own entrance therefore, I assume, so I assume again, that zoonlief can come and go without Ma and Pa in the eye, and how or what Who etc.


     Zoonlief to 06.30 tomorrow benefited from the 5th suspect, which is only recently revealed, it is that the 5th man now suspected,.
     Mss want them now only know from Dad or something he noticed that morning and drive to a third party or something

I thought that this is the fourth suspect was one Steven Croes? Question wondering what is true of these two Dutch (not surinaamse) brothers and a colombiaan suspected? I think half of that island is suspected, how many people live there?

In short, strange mess with all these stories that you read, they sleuren more and more people, to the son of youknowwho to save ofzo. There is no ass of the whole story, and I wonder whether it only by the news of the amerikanen. I think there is also something very tilted sits on Aruba (skating them there are ash, and also straight or tilted?)



http://forum.fok.nl/topic/716218

[MumInOhio]

I thought the guy with short hair was Leo Burke or Burke Leo, can't remember, member of ALE and suspected of being one of the riddlers.

Clyde Burke....iirc, he's a musician as well as ALE.   

Lots of musicians...Paulus...Rudy Croes...

Darn Lala's will be mad...Colombo was here 

Yes, and I read Colombo's post 5 times trying to understand....not sure where the quotes end there......last sentence said Simian seems to be a Babylonian...did Colombo really say that, or did someone else?   

Did a quick search for that quote and nothing. Will look again later. IMO Colombo says it, but not positive. I do remember a lot of discussion about the 46 hotels a while back and posted the other day about room #7114.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I thought the guy with short hair was Leo Burke or Burke Leo, can't remember, member of ALE and suspected of being one of the riddlers.

Clyde Burke....iirc, he's a musician as well as ALE.   

Lots of musicians...Paulus...Rudy Croes...

Darn Lala's will be mad...Colombo was here 

Yes, and I read Colombo's post 5 times trying to understand....not sure where the quotes end there......last sentence said Simian seems to be a Babylonian...did Colombo really say that, or did someone else?   

Did a quick search for that quote and nothing. Will look again later. IMO Colombo says it, but not positive. I do remember a lot of discussion about the 46 hotels a while back and posted the other day about room #7114.

Yes, I remember all of those older discussions, too.  Thanks for the response, Mum. 

[MumInOhio]

The 5th Suspect

All of a sudden, it seems we have more 'supects' than witnesses! Now I'm between three! Oh wait, I meant four!

Just have to see which one has the 'alibi that needs to be broken'! LOL, all four of mine do! And if I really 'think outside the box' I have five!

Will do some reading and hopefully will be back on track by the morning!

[Lala'sMom]

For the sake of information I have chosen to bring a few posts over from last night.  It's all about Lorenzo...yes that guy...again. Thanks monkeys for thinking outside the box with me...

Gabby
   
   
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #734 on: December 29, 2007, 11:47:43 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Quote from: ******* on December 29, 2007, 09:18:10 PM
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.
---------------
No idea who else this could be from everyone we know in this case. The only BF I can possibly think of earlier in the week would be GVC. Rubbing against her while dancing at C&C or possibly being the one in a uniform that was seen talking to her. The person was described as being a local man in his 20's,too old to be GVC.

I don't see Joran being scared shi*less of any of the pimps or witnesses we have talked about in this case. Unless it's Andre Meneses or someone else who's name is not in the case files and is some type of Colombian Drug lord or dangerous person that somehow is the 5th suspect.

I believe it's Lorenzo, I have believed he was involved since very early in the case. And...IF he is connected to drug running, drug lords, etc. he IS someone jvds would be scared of, I believe. This would very possibly also explain how he has managed to stay out of the limelight, IF he is in fact connected to drug lords. Aruba is run by drug money, prostitution, etc. Personally I believe that the ALE in the beginning were afraid of the drug lords, and because of Lorenzo's connections he was protected. This would explain him being "interrogated" and released early in the case and nothing more mentioned about him until just recently. For me it would explain a lot of other things also. Lorenzo was said to have a "cigarette" boat. With his connections he could easily find people to cover for him that night, giving him his alibi.
During the first week of the case I read that Natalee had dinner on Friday night with someone named Lorenzo. This was the first time I had heard that name in connection with this case, this is when I first became aware of Lorenzo. I made some notes, and when I went back later on to find where I had read that, it was gone...poof. I have since read that Natalee had dinner with "someone" but Lorenzo's name was no longer mentioned. I believe this because I saw it for myself, I read it myself...so I think they did meet, that Lorenzo did have occasion to see Natalee and be around her a bit. We have all seen her in the videos, have seen how beautifully she moved, how softly she spoke, how gentle her demeanor was. She had "Class" written all over her, just the kind of female someone like Lorenzo would enjoy getting to know better, would like to put his mark on. Because of these things I believe it's very possible that Lorenzo is somehow involved. JMHO tho, as always.

[Lala'sMom]

*******
Global Moderator

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #735 on: December 29, 2007, 11:50:59 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Interesting reading this Dutch blog,located 2 friends of Joran,HI casino worker and a classmate of Gillam Van Der Straaten. Still nothing terribly interesting..I do see they were speculating a bit after Anita's Interview and reading at SM and RWV  Wink

   Quote:
     On Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:22 wrote TheMassive the following:

     [..]

     Anyone who says he knows more?

Well for example, this video:

http://Http://www.planet.nl/plan (...) 592111/sc id = = # 15f6ca

In the latter piece says the mother of Joran he said to her:
"I should have brought her to a responsible adult. That I blame myself and I will blame my whole life. "

This means quite sure that Van der Sloot Jr. There are many more of af know mi Meanwhile he continues to silence them or did he perhaps to the Aruban police said (and therefore not known to the media) and the Aruban police / justice tries all appropriate gluing pieces together. I read somewhere that one of Scared Monkeys Lorenzo also is interrogated in this case but has a good alibi provided by his friends who argue that it all night that night at home. This shows afterparty's organizing in Aruba and is a "crazy" once described his father (a VW dealer) has committed suicide. It also was suggested that he SM on the days before Natalee was missing and before they Joran onmoette with her would be raised, or a relationship would have had. Meanwhile, the rumors but still ... The observation in this video AvdS I then suspect whether there is not another in the game and there is much more to the matter than hitherto in the media is telling. Right?

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. - Marcel Proust

BwennieBren
1 + 1 = 11
Wednesday, June 29, 2005 @ 14:13


BTW some information on that Lorenzo:

     Quote:
     According to AmericaninAruba, Lorenzo has a house on the main road of Savaneta and also another one in Seroe Alejandro.

     By AmericaninAruba:

     The Lorenzo guy who was questioned yesterday is known for having underground parties at one of his houses. The house is rather isolated and surrounded by lots of brush and cactus.

     A poster from Aruba on Scared Monkeys is claiming that in addition to SGC, there was another guy detained yesterday. This other guy, Lorenzo, is known to be wild and crazy, especially since his father killed himself a few years ago, according to the poster.

     The other person, a "Lorenzo" who was allegedly questioned yesterday, is a crazy dude whose father owned the local VW dealership but the father offed himself a few years ago.

     Lorenzo the character - hsi father owned the Vwagen distributor here…. But after his father committed suicide family they sold th ebusiness…

     The SBC (this mornigns judgement) - i have no idea!

     The lorenzo guy reportedly has connections to drugs and parties. The someone named Lorenzo was detained and questioned yesterday, but we do not think he has been arrested yet. He is known to be a nutcase, maybe capable of something. His dad owned the Volkswagon dealership there but committed suicide 3 years ago and was found hanging in the hallway of their home. Finally, someone suggested that maybe Natalee was taken to an "underground party". Other posters have explained that these parties are thrown after the bars close, that they are supposed to get permissions they have before them, that the police quickly close down any parties that do not have permission, but that Lorenzo lives out away from town and does throw parties and the police do not close those down as easily.

     This "Lorenzo" kid's name was mentioned from the very beginning .. In fact it is the first name I heard when this whole thing started…. My guess is that he must have been involved with her sometime during her trip, and that they are now bringing in EVERYBODY that had come in contact with her…. (From what I hear, "lorenzo" ONE troublemaker……) I do not know him, but I know he has had problems with the law before… .. something about a fight at one of his parties…. Cannot remember the details…

     Does anyone remember the one first couple of night we were all talk ing someone basically said, "when this all shakes out there are going to be major ramifications, there are ppl involved that are high up" .. And it is not gonna be pretty…. Sounds like this guy knew something about the actual crime… this was heading in the other area before we had this forum .. Does anyone remember and also, do you know who this might have been…

     I do not know if his name is Lorenzo or not… But from the very beginning "the son of an ex Vwagen dealer" was somehow involved… .. He was the first one mentioned….

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. - Marcel Proust

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/718927/6/50
   

*******
Global Moderator
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #736 on: Today at 12:12:42 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Gabby,

There is a article at RWV I believe that talked about the lunch date or whatever with Lorenzo. Also there was a seperate discussion on it at boostunit.com(Arubans)before they took it down. It was him that some people speculated that Natalee ate/met with. I'M not sure why or how that rumor got around so early in the case. I just wish we had one more solid piece of evidence to link this all together.

[COLOMBO]

what, according to Shango-was being kept hidden? a suspect????

[Lala'sMom]

There are some interesting things in here I did not know about Lorenzo...thanks Anna. I am a little confused about the escort thing...I must have missed a lot there.  You enlightened me to a lot of things here.

Anna
Monkey All Star
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28
« Reply #754 on: Today at 07:53:06 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
In my opinion:

Half the time, you have the wrong Lorenzo.  Lorenzo van Rijn is not the one with the escort services at all.  He is a RECLUSE.  This means he does not go to night clubs or casinos much at all if ever.  He does not have RAVE parties and his nickname is not XTC.  My source for this is two people on the island.

He grows weed and from the looks of it, I would suspect that it is that Nederweed.  Some of the Dutch have turned their exquisite and exceptional botanical skills to the development of this product which is reported to be ten times stronger than regular pot.

The "party" the night Natalee disappeared had six people in attendance if you want to call that a Rave.  Did you ever think people might be protective of him because he suffers from problems and his father committed suicide making him four time more likely to do so himself by statistics?

He is no more Joran's half brother than I am and Jossy has always qualified any statements about him, which are ALWAYS in answer to a question and never just on his own, with it is a rumor or "it is said."  That is a pure Julia rumor if I ever heard one, straight out of soap opera lore.  He was born in Aruba before Paulus moved there for one thing.

He was questioned because of his previous drug arrests back when he did deal in XTC to see if they asked him to buy drugs or if he had sold them any X or GHB.  If he were really Joran's half brother or anything could be pinned on him, I believe Joran would have mentioned him in his book and certainly Anita and her minions from hell would have been doing so long ago.

In my opinion only but most of that I have verified with TWO sources from the island.  Where are his photos in the bars, etc.?  There aren't any because he is so reclusive.  Of course you can continue to stalk him if you like but it's a waste of time and this has been told several times to different people from islanders and yet it is just ignored.  Odd, that.

Flame away. . . . I just don't think it's right to try to force people to be involved who aren't.

.

[MumInOhio]

what, according to Shango-was being kept hidden? a suspect????

Columbo it could be Natalee or a suspect(s):
Natalee:

quote
Nancy grace 6/14/2005
MICKEY JOHN, FORMER ARUBA SUSPECT: He told me that the story about dropping the girl off at the Holiday Inn was all made up.

QUESTION: Why? Why would they make it up?

MICKEY JOHN: Because he told me, apparently, that no one -- somebody`s missing, like a young tourist person missing. They find him, like, a few days after at some crack house or with some beach bum. So they thought they would find her three days after. When push come to shove and they couldn`t get her, they decided to target-shoot. He told (ph) his brother (INAUDIBLE) target-shoot.

Suspect(s)

From June 8th 2005 Nancy Grace....they do not appear to be talking about the Kalpoes.

 IMO  Maybe Koen and Sander

GRACE: OK, let me quickly go to defense attorney Daniel Horowitz standing by. Daniel Horowitz, this is basically bass-ackwards from the way that it works in America. Because you don`t arrest somebody and put them in a cell of an administration building by the jail unless you`ve got a case against them. You don`t get arrested while the state, while the prosecutor, tries to put together a case.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly, Nancy. And there`s a problem with this, also. It focuses on these two men so much, and it doesn`t give them the freedom to be out and prove their innocence or gather evidence on their own behalf. You know, Nancy, these guys could be patsies. I`m concerned about those three rich kids who were with this young lady and supposedly dropped her off at a hotel and then she just vanishes. I don`t like the idea of the focus on these two guys alone.

GRACE: Let me go back to Karl Penhaul on that very issue. Karl Penhaul, CNN correspondent, is with us in Aruba. Karl, there are murmurings to that exact issue, that these two security guards are being targeted while the actual guys that were with her, that took her away from the restaurant, have been set free. Explain. Why are these two being held? Did they run into the girl after the other three let her go? I mean, why are they being held and the other three have been let go? Is it true they are from rich or influential families, while these two are not? PENHAUL: That`s the question on a lot of people`s lips right now, Nancy. We`ve been talking around. We`ve also been talking to the suspects` families. A number of answers to that. The three young men last seen in the company of Natalee Holloway outside Carlos and Charlie`s, we understand, were never arrested, were never detained by police. Yes, they were interviewed. But the police in a press conference earlier this week have said that no evidence in terms of the car that they all drove away in was confiscated at any stage. Meanwhile, the two suspects, three of their vehicles have been confiscated. One of the suspect`s mother`s cars, a cousin`s car, I believe, and one of the cars belonging to one of the suspects. Those are being looked at, even though there`s nothing, apparently, according to the defense attorneys, in any witness statement to suggest that Natalee Holloway was ever seen in the company of these two suspects, let alone got in their cars.

As far as the identities of the three people, the young men that are being named or were named as persons of interest, indeed, they do seem to be from influential families, certainly middle-class families, a little difficult in this context to spell out exactly whom they are.

But what the mother of Mickey John -- Antonius John, but Mickey his mother calls him -- what she says is that here what is at stake, or one part of the problem is, is that there`s a race issue here, because the people, the three young men are of influential, middle-class, largely white families, descendents of the Dutch colonizers that once came here, whereas the two suspects are from black immigrant families who maybe have been here for many years but nevertheless are still regarded as immigrants.

[MumInOhio]

Lala's...I posted this in the other thread yesterday and am not sure if you saw it! Not sure if you saw the post about J’s book so will get the link and repost it here as it will be easier to see!

In regards to the 5th. suspect.I have always thought Freddy, because of the photo and 'whose hand' Well yesterday I found the photo with Freddy and J2K and the one with just J2K.

And yesterday I realised that there is another hand in that photo!   

[MumInOhio]

Lala’s….Please read Chapters 3, 4 and 5 very carefully. I will email you after you’ve read it, regarding my observations.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1117.0


Columbo…I just posted a rather long post about another possibility for a ‘hidden’ suspect in the other thread. If you check my last posts you will find it.

[JuJu]

All of this emailing business drives me insane.  Why don't you just post your observations here?

[MumInOhio]

All of this emailing business drives me insane.  Why don't you just post your observations here?

JuJu.....I am sorry, but my observations on this are way out of the box and if I post here I will be totally flamed! Again, I apologize.

[Lala'sMom]

Lala’s….Please read Chapters 3, 4 and 5 very carefully. I will email you after you’ve read it, regarding my observations.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1117.0


Columbo…I just posted a rather long post about another possibility for a ‘hidden’ suspect in the other thread. If you check my last posts you will find it.

OK Mum...I am finished reading the chapters...please let me know your thoughts.  I am eager to hear them. 

[MumInOhio]

Interesting! Some light reading for New Year’s Day and seeing Simian told me to look it up, I did. May be our ‘bird on the wire’! I don't think these links will work and the last one has a must read article by Ms JA, the friend of mine and Frank's.


The 10-year agreements governing these facilities limit their use to counter-drug missions, mainly those of aircraft seeking to detect and monitor illegal drug-smuggling in the huge “transit zone” between the Andes and the United States’ southern border.
The agreements governing all three sites will be up for renewal within the next four years


news.nacla.org/2007/09/18/monitoring-the-us-military-presence-in-latin-america/



Forward Operating Location (FOL). Funding was provided to maintain and operate the FOL in Aruba. This FOL
consists of 1 facility which is a building. FOL Aruba provides an overflow capability to facilitate counterdrug detection and monitoring operations within the USSOUTHCOM AOR. FOL Aruba provides communication and contracting support to aircrews. (PC9500) Total FY05 Funding: $1.534M. Cost breakout is as follows:
·   Bandwidth expense ($500K) ·   
             Civil engineering/contracting support to building/ramp projects ($552K)
·   Direct support to include Air Expeditionary Forces Communication person per diem and travel, lodging, environmental baseline study, and miscellaneous contracts ($430K)
·   Air Combat Command Program Management System expense ($50K)
·   Base operating support contract support ($2K)

http://www.ciponline.org/colombia/blog/archives/000347.htm








Interesting article from someone we have discussed. Very interesting!


http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/48722.pdf

[Lala'sMom]

I have been rereading early archives...once again...looking for something found a few interesting tidbits I thought I would post here. 

NativeLingo
Rumor of Breaking News
« Reply #963 on: June 13, 2005, 11:16:02 PM »
   
To recap:

JVD told one of the guards that he was dropped at home after CnC....
brothers were left w/ Nat

Deepak told the other guard that they went to Arashi/lighthouse, and that afterards they dropped Joran and NH at the fishermen's hut. After an hour or so Joran sent a msg to the brothers saying that they needed to meet....


Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:54 pm
I can confirm they are there. The 3 of them. Remember the Kalpoes know nothing they were informed aournd the pool deck by Joran.