SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[klaasend]

What were they trying to tell us, or were they a distraction?

[truthseeker2]

Our very own Tango Cage!    Where's Lala'a Mom?????

[truthseeker2]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:26 pm
Simian, his lordship did not bring the expected key
the door never existed
Eden is distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Simian, His Lordship did not bring the key found in the car, it did not exist
The arawaks can’t open the door
Hope lies with the cowbous,
but the posse was too late
Eden is still distant

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
Cowboys must behave in Indian territory
The arawaks need pemmican, they have been without wampum, 1 Moon
The Arawaks keep the singing card
One singing Babylonian and two Hindu chanters are enough
His lordships presence guarantees a trio
The key to edens door did not exist
The refrain has already begun

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
The babylonians knew it was dangerous to trade among the arawaks
The way is clouded for the sacrifice
Rules have changed, so has the maze
the way is lost for the pioneers who went to live among the indians
The flames are growing
A sacrifice will be made to spare the police;
to spare the teepees
Singing cards have lost their power
Arawaks worried about being caught with dirty hand
His lordship will bestow the title soon….
They will save the teepees and the palace,
but first
The Sacrifice

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
Meetings with his lordship will reveal several mysteries
the sacrifice also knows the fires have been lit

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.
Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home
….without the loot

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the key
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
The Simian knows his Lordship did not have a key to open the door to eden
the answer lies with the Arawak Nation


Any ideas on who 'his Lordship' is?

Oduber
Rudy Croes
The Govenor General

[fierljepper]

What were they trying to tell us, or were they a distraction?

Hi Klaas,

Followed this nice forum for a while now, but couldn't find a 'register' button on the old home page, so wasn't able to jump in. Also was a bit scared for the monkeys...

By the way, the new layout looks great!

Back to these cryptic texts. I was immediately intrigued by them and read all Simian's and Shango's quotes from this site:

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-6811.html

If you read through the whole sequence of their posts, it actually isn't that difficult to follow (it's only a bit unfortunate that someone "alter-egod" Simian along the way):

In a nutshell: they're talking about a "Dirtyhand" who is the jealous ex-boyfriend of Natalee who they see as the real murderer. However, neither the Aruban legal system (Babylonians) nor the Aruban police/investigation team (Awaraks) are allowed to break into the inner circle of the Mountain Brook students and their parents (the maze and the elders). They postulate a high level cover up deal between US and Aruba officials which aims to conceal this pretty embarrassing case for some influential US people. The cowboys (Equusearch/FBI) are searching Aruba (Babylon) for nothing. Joran van der Sloot (the son) and the Kalpoes (the Hindus/Shivas) are used as the scape goats to distract the attention from Natalees peers. The boys are sacrificed (Joran is 'the lamb', the fire gets heated up) to protect the high level deal. Since they knew that there never would be found any crucial evidence or a body ("the key to edens door"), the whole case ended in the current catch 22.

This is remarkably in line with Dompig's and Renfro's recent story, so Simian/Shango could very well have been one of them. They most certainly were very well informed in those days, even earlier than the press it seemed. "The lord" must therefore be somebody higher up then them. Who was the boss of Dompig ? Who was the president of Aruba ?  

[klaasend]

fierljepper - welcome!

Yes, the new layout is nice and there are more changes to come!  I have some errands to run right now so I can't get into Shango/Simian with you right now.  If you find the Important Case Document thread and read through there you will find a thread for Shango/Simian posts.

[Lala'sMom]

What were they trying to tell us, or were they a distraction?

Hi Klaas,

Followed this nice forum for a while now, but couldn't find a 'register' button on the old home page, so wasn't able to jump in. Also was a bit scared for the monkeys...

By the way, the new layout looks great!

Back to these cryptic texts. I was immediately intrigued by them and read all Simian's and Shango's quotes from this site:

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-6811.html

If you read through the whole sequence of their posts, it actually isn't that difficult to follow (it's only a bit unfortunate that someone "alter-egod" Simian along the way):

In a nutshell: they're talking about a "Dirtyhand" who is the jealous ex-boyfriend of Natalee who they see as the real murderer. However, neither the Aruban legal system (Babylonians) nor the Aruban police/investigation team (Awaraks) are allowed to break into the inner circle of the Mountain Brook students and their parents (the maze and the elders). They postulate a high level cover up deal between US and Aruba officials which aims to conceal this pretty embarrassing case for some influential US people. The cowboys (Equusearch/FBI) are searching Aruba (Babylon) for nothing. Joran van der Sloot (the son) and the Kalpoes (the Hindus/Shivas) are used as the scape goats to distract the attention from Natalees peers. The boys are sacrificed (Joran is 'the lamb', the fire gets heated up) to protect the high level deal. Since they knew that there never would be found any crucial evidence or a body ("the key to edens door"), the whole case ended in the current catch 22.

This is remarkably in line with Dompig's and Renfro's recent story, so Simian/Shango could very well have been one of them. They most certainly were very well informed in those days, even earlier than the press it seemed. "The lord" must therefore be somebody higher up then them. Who was the boss of Dompig ? Who was the president of Aruba ?  

I think you need to study Shango and Simian a bit more.   

[Kat_Gram]

Could Ben Vocking be a miising link ? He was high up in the Justice Department, head of the KIA prison. The one that Paulus helped. Paulus went to stay there, wherever that is in Aruba. Wasn't he the govenor of the prison ( KIA ) ?   

[Lala'sMom]

No doubt King has a hand in all the corruption.  He was helped by Paulus and I get the feeling that returning the favor is a vital part of that system. 

[truthseeker2]

What were they trying to tell us, or were they a distraction?

Hi Klaas,

Followed this nice forum for a while now, but couldn't find a 'register' button on the old home page, so wasn't able to jump in. Also was a bit scared for the monkeys...

By the way, the new layout looks great!

Back to these cryptic texts. I was immediately intrigued by them and read all Simian's and Shango's quotes from this site:

http://truth4natalee.s3.bizhat.com/truth4natalee-post-6811.html

If you read through the whole sequence of their posts, it actually isn't that difficult to follow (it's only a bit unfortunate that someone "alter-egod" Simian along the way):

In a nutshell: they're talking about a "Dirtyhand" who is the jealous ex-boyfriend of Natalee who they see as the real murderer. However, neither the Aruban legal system (Babylonians) nor the Aruban police/investigation team (Awaraks) are allowed to break into the inner circle of the Mountain Brook students and their parents (the maze and the elders). They postulate a high level cover up deal between US and Aruba officials which aims to conceal this pretty embarrassing case for some influential US people. The cowboys (Equusearch/FBI) are searching Aruba (Babylon) for nothing. Joran van der Sloot (the son) and the Kalpoes (the Hindus/Shivas) are used as the scape goats to distract the attention from Natalees peers. The boys are sacrificed (Joran is 'the lamb', the fire gets heated up) to protect the high level deal. Since they knew that there never would be found any crucial evidence or a body ("the key to edens door"), the whole case ended in the current catch 22.

This is remarkably in line with Dompig's and Renfro's recent story, so Simian/Shango could very well have been one of them. They most certainly were very well informed in those days, even earlier than the press it seemed. "The lord" must therefore be somebody higher up then them. Who was the boss of Dompig ? Who was the president of Aruba ?  

Hmmm...I agree with Lala'a.  You need to read Simian and Shango all over again.  Especially the posts where Shango confirms the id of Dirty Hand as the Chief of Polis.  Are you saying Van Der Straaten and Natalee were romantically involved earlier in the week?  I believe that would be the first I have heard of that.

[Lala'sMom]

Actually, Truthseeker, that post made me laugh out loud.  A warped sense of humor if there ever was one. (BTW that is me being nice...this time.) RES

[sharon]

Actually, Truthseeker, that post made me laugh out loud.  A warped sense of humor if there ever was one. (BTW that is me being nice...this time.) RES

I agree -- it made me lol. Almost as much as yoyo on the FP does 

I'm not sure -- but I think that babelfish may translate 'fierljepper' as ChuckieRat

[Lala'sMom]

If anyone has any questions please feel free to leave them and either I or another smart monkey will try to answer them.  We need to get this thread up and running. 

[fierljepper]

All,

Appreciate your challenges, but my post was serious and inducing you a LOL is actually an unexpected side-effect  ). P.S. FierlJepper is a national Dutch sport and concerns jumping over a ditch (= "sloot" in Dutch ... got it?).

Just read the few Simian quotes I summarized below from the dates that he wasn't that cryptic yet and tell me what you think. To me it's pretty obvious that he already in the beginning developed the theory that the jealous first boyfriend of Natalee murdered her and that they used J2K as the scape goats (how crappy that idea might sound, it's just what's in his head). This boy isn't very "fresh" either since he apparently has killed his own dogs and harassed some of his class mates. A few student friends covered up for him and told the police that he was with them at a party all night. His dad or someone else who is very influencial in the US helped in the cover-up and removed the body from the Island. It could have gone up very high up in the US to make a deal with Aruba to keep quiet about this since otherwise the US would...

How realistic this conspiracy story is, is less relevant. Shango also poses the rethoric question of why Joran would have been made so afraid in jail (via his father?) that he kept his mouth shut ('and bit his tongue'). I'd recommend you to read their conversation again with this story in mind, it seem to fit the cryptical stuff very well. Not running away from any critical comment. 

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 2:59 pm
There’s not even a trace of her. At this point I am inclined to believe in a theory that has been going around on the island, but that I find difficult to post here.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 3:11 pm
What Countrymoon is saying is true. In Aruba we wonder how come WE do not get a chance to interrogate some chaperone or the group of kids that were swimming in front of the Holiday Inn until 6 in the morning.
The FBI has them quiet. The FBI is factfinding. The plan was outrageous.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:50 pm
Some people on the other side of the pond know more than what they are saying. There testimony, there’s security footage, there are witnesses.
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.
Simian Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
June 22nd, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Checkme…check this…and please recheck:
Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.
I have heard from Americans living in Aruba and and they think something completely different.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:04 pm
Lucy you are wrong. It was just a simple party at his house. He was “there whole time”.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:34 am
He’s too afraid to confess.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:50 am
He’s afraid of the real killer. He has no way out.
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:03 am
1. No body; no crime.
2. A grown woman gone missing.
3. Één getuige is géén getuige. (One witness is no witness).
4. No suspect is allowed to testify against himself.
5. A confession will be thrown out of court if there is no evidence.

ONE OF THE WITNESSES IS NO WITNESS, HE IS A PERPETRATOR
Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
The important “others” are the ones that supported the alibi.
No one has openly said there is no hope. Three cadaver dogs on the way. Sonar equipment to look for a body in as deep as 300 meters of water.
Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:37 pm
It’s horrible. He is a sociopath.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Killing his own dogs. Dumping them is the reservoir. Harassing his schoolmates.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.
crs Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Sim - when you speak of this boy I think everyone thinks you are talking about Joran but your not are you - you are talking about this other individual.
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Of whom is the young Babylonian afraid?
Why won’t he talk? 

[truthseeker2]

I have read Simian and Shango to death and I can tell you Simain was repeating what the ALE was guessing at.  Why do people keep saying "the jealous boyfriend from earlier in the week", yet no has any idea who that person was.  Not one picture, not one name.  Just some lame reference to a kid that liked Natalee back in the 9th grade which was a bogus and typical lie coming from the disinformation brigade.

The cover up began immediately and Simian was towing the line with ALE.

But for giggles, let's say there WAS a 'boyfriend' from earlier in the week.  Why has Joron or the Kalpoes ratted him out?  Why did the lie about dropping her off at the HI and don't give me any of that "they panicked" bs.  Why did they say she hit her head not only in that lie, but in the lies Joran was telling at school two days later when conveying yet a different story.  It would be easier to rat out the "boyfriend from earlier in the week" that to tell all these lies.

[fierljepper]

I have read Simian and Shango to death and I can tell you Simain was repeating what the ALE was guessing at.  Why do people keep saying "the jealous boyfriend from earlier in the week", yet no has any idea who that person was.  Not one picture, not one name.  Just some lame reference to a kid that liked Natalee back in the 9th grade which was a bogus and typical lie coming from the disinformation brigade.

The cover up began immediately and Simian was towing the line with ALE.

Well Truthseeker, I guess the name that pops up in my mind is that of Jeremy Brown. He's often referred to as the ex-boyfriend of Natalee. He was in the CnC's that night as well and even danced with Natalee for a while. There's also a persisting rumor that he didn't fly back with the other students on May 30th (just for some more free giggles -> this is also stated in Joran's book...). There are also stories that this has been falsified by American Airlines.

There's also the boy who yelled at Natalee to get out off Deepak's car and the theory that the reason she actually got into the car was to make some guy jealous.

So, if Simian was repeating what the ALE was guessing at, that doesn't rule out that they were onto something. I actually like this Simian guy, since he at least provided some counterweight against the incredibly biased US media/forum hypes that were created around this case from day one (I know that I'm not "preaching for the choir" here at Scared Monkeys by saying this... ). The ALE weren't allowed any access into the rapidly closed MB student community (the maze). Only interviewed by the FBI. This to the frustration of the Aruban investigators.

I'm really surprised that Simian et al, had developed this hypothesis already so early in the game (3 weeks after she'd gone missing), when all the media attention was only focused on J2K and their lies. He also knows weird details about "killing his own dogs", which never has been brought in connection to Joran.

In any criminal case, it's very logical to first look for people with a motive as well as the opportunity to commit a crime. An ex-boyfriend typically is a likely suspect to have a motive (just read the newspapers) and I wouldn't be surprised that he actually wasn't at a party that night (covered by his friends), but spotted Joran and Natalee at the beach,followed them and killed Natalee after Joran had left (or when he was still there and was threatened by Jeremy so he fled the scene barefoot. However this would mean Joran is innocent and would provoke the question why Joran didn't "rat him out").

But for giggles, let's say there WAS a 'boyfriend' from earlier in the week.  Why has Joron or the Kalpoes ratted him out?  Why did the lie about dropping her off at the HI and don't give me any of that "they panicked" bs.  Why did they say she hit her head not only in that lie, but in the lies Joran was telling at school two days later when conveying yet a different story.  It would be easier to rat out the "boyfriend from earlier in the week" that to tell all these lies.

Indeed. Unless Joran and that ex-boyfriend, for what ever reason got rid of the body together after an encounter/fight on the beach. Joran has told best friend Freddy about "they" were at the beach and couldn't bring back Natalee from unconsciousness. I'm absolutely with you that Joran knows more about what happened that night at the beach and either he has something to conceal or he is threatened in such a way that he's not allowed to talk. There's no other explanation for so many lies. I've posted a theory at Scrux that Satish returned to the beach and that the Gardener indeed saw the three boys in the Deepak's car near the pond. I had only two people, but now we have three (i.c. Joran, + Jeremy, Satish and the expired body of Natalee). 

Anyway, not well thought out at all, just dropping random thoughts. So, please save the giggles. Need to think this through better first.

[Lala'sMom]

fierljepper

As a little background could you tell me how long you have been studying the Shango and Simian verses?  Who do you think was Simian?  Any ideas?  Where was Shango posting from?  Any idea who he is?

[Ree]

OK, I'm new at at this Shango stuff (But I've been looking forward to doing the Tango for some time now).  The way I read it Shango told us directly who the boyfriend was when he said the 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  Based upon that it has to either be Lorenzo or Paulus.  Was Paulus in the casino earlier in the week?  Could he have met Natalee and been jealous when he saw her flirting with (can't remember the boy's name.  We have a 302 where one of the girls says she thought Natalee would hook up with him, because she was flirting with him.)

[Ree]

When did the imposter show up?

[igsigs]

I'm really surprised that Simian et al, had developed this hypothesis already so early in the game (3 weeks after she'd gone missing), when all the media attention was only focused on J2K and their lies. He also knows weird details about "killing his own dogs", which never has been brought in connection to Joran.

Greeting fierljepper! Welcome.

The *dog killing* rumor was introduced here at SM by arubagirl. She is a good source, IMO.

She said that the rumor was Joran killing his dog, blaming it on a neighbor boy, then admitting to it when confronted by the boy's parents. I will try and find the post if you are interested.

Bottom line > this rumor has been discussed extensively on all the blogs since summer 05, and has ALWAYS been connected to Joran.

 

[Ree]

I'm really surprised that Simian et al, had developed this hypothesis already so early in the game (3 weeks after she'd gone missing), when all the media attention was only focused on J2K and their lies. He also knows weird details about "killing his own dogs", which never has been brought in connection to Joran.

Greeting fierljepper! Welcome.

The *dog killing* rumor was introduced here at SM by arubagirl. She is a good source, IMO.

She said that the rumor was Joran killing his dog, blaming it on a neighbor boy, then admitting to it when confronted by the boy's parents. I will try and find the post if you are interested.

Bottom line > this rumor has been discussed extensively on all the blogs since summer 05, and has ALWAYS been connected to Joran.

 

I was just over reading some of Simian's posts.  He apparently did not know about the wiretap of Paulus and the 4AM pickup, because he states Paulus was arrested based upon the two witnesses who overheard 4 AM.