SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[fierljepper]

Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.

Your campaign will probably not win many converts here, but hey, you had to try.

Come on, guys. That's not fair. I'm not running a 'campaign', I'm just keeping all options open and testing a hypothesis. Why these emotional responses? Why not just convince me with arguments?

I've spent since June 9th (the Jensen show) on trying to conceive of a plausible scenarios based on the available evidence that only involves J2K + maybe Paulus. Jon (from Scrux) has made a good analysis and reflected that in his essay. But like with many on the web, there seems to be a natural inclination that when you get stuck, you'd start to open up your mind for other scenarios. 

For what it's worth, my first reaction on the Jenfro story is here:

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054

I still believe it's a pretty nuanced view, although it also intends to hold up the mirror for those who believe that no other scenario's then "J2K did it" and "Aruba is a backward, corrupt and cheating country" exist. I'm from the Netherlands and actually don't feel constraints in considering other any scenario, even if my country would be embarassed by it.

Awareness of a bias is the first step...

[klaasend]

fierljepper - I have enjoyed reading your posts at Scrux!

[Buckeye]

Early chats from Amigoe (out of Curacau)

http://tinyurl.com/3aekoj



osted 20. July 2005 01:01 PM                               
 
Beste mensen,

Van betrouwbare bronnen heb ik begrepen dat er op die tape de volgende dingen te vinden waren:

3 blonde haren (volgens DNA van Holloway)
7 zwarte haren(sluik haar, 2 verschillende eigenaren, eogenaren onbekend)
2 blonde haren (onbekend)
6 spermacellen (vooralsnog onbekend)
restanten van wat "lichaamsvocht" zou zijn geweest (bevestigd Holloway)
1 fragment roest (waarschijnlijk van een anker)
1 stukje vis
1 onderlegger met de text: "Ca....s & .har...s"
wat zand

Op basis hiervan denkt de politie de verdwijning spoedig te kunnen oplossen.

Best men

Of trustworthy sources have I understood that there on that tape the next things to find were:,. 

3 blond hairs (according to DNA of Holloway)
7 black hairs (straight her, 2 different owners, eogenaren strangely)
2 blond hairs (strangely)
6 sperm cells (as yet strangely)
 remainders of what "bodies liquid" would be been rust (affirmed Holloway)
1 fragment (probably of an anchor)
1 stiff fish
1 onderlegger with the text: “Ca....s & .har...s" what sand

On basis of this thinks to can the police the disappearance shortly solve




Beste Milln,

Ik heb een vriend bij de politie op Aruba die nauw verbonden is met het onderzoek. Hij heeft mij dat verteld.
Het zal wel waar zijn.
Ik heb hem weer even gebeld, en wat Lot zegt is gewoon onzin. De sleutels (huissleutels geen autosleutels) van ene J v.d. S zijn niet op de tape gevonden maar op het strand bij Marriot.
En van de met bloed geschreven bericht: "Jay did it" welk op een kauwgom papiertje is gevonden is al bewezen dat die met ezelsbloed is geschreven.
Je moet dus niet alles geloven wat je hoort.


I have a friend at the police on Aruba that narrow agreements is with the investigation.  He has me that told.  It will well where are.  I have prevent rung him just, and what Fate usual nonsense is says.  The keys (house key no car keys) of a J v. d.  S have not been found on the tape but on the beach by Marriot.  And of the with blood written message:  "Jay did it" which on a chewing gum paper has been found already has been proved that that with asses blood have been written.  You must not believe hears thus everything what you.


posted 20. July 2005 02:39 PM         

Some of us believe there was evidence.  There either still is or it has been covered up.

[Buckeye]

Anyway, remember John Merryweather, evil incarnate and my mom's cousin? He has a son, named Herbert (Herbie) Merryweather. Herbert is married and has a son, but I don't know his name.
The mother of this son came to talk to my mom day before yesterday and it turns out that her son is a classmate of Joran's.
So, got it, grandson Merryweather is Joran's classmate. Turns out that that grandson and mom had a major clash with Joran some time before, because Joran accused grandson of killing Joran's dog and throwing it in Moko Dam (place where TX ES also searched), however, the mother threatened to go the cops to make a complaint against Joran, and the Joran confessed to killing his own dog.
I'm not kidding. Not even a little bit.
Also, the morning after NH disappeared, Joran came with a big bruise on his face and was sleeping in class and could only be woken up when he was pelted with (note?)books.
07/12/2005 12:07 AM

[Buckeye]

From Peter DeVries  (makes sense to me):

PRdVries: it’s very difficult to speculate… Several scenario’s could have happened… The only thing I do is putting facts in the right order… But it’s clear Joran was the last one with Nathalee, he’s lied on some very crucial points and that shows you have something to hide. But what exactly happened at this point is pure speculation. But what I find very suspicious is the fact he lied about dropping her at the hotel. Because if you realy don’t know what happened to her, you have to take into account that f.i. three hours later she shows up after having spent the rest of the night somewhere else; in that situation the story of Joran wouldn’t have fit anylonger so it’s clear he knew she wouldn’t show up again.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=603.0

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks buckeye.  The tango is going to be later tonight.  I have company...I don't know why they didn't get the memo. RES

[Buckeye]

Joran's 8/08/05 statement.  Can be read in Dutch.

The suspect has represented that he has explained that he and the missing girl walked a bit. And that a declaration is there of someone who has seen the car of Deepak Kalpoe on, some hundreds of meters away from the fisherman’s hut.  He is asked for the logic of and an other one and is asked if he can explain why he then with the other boys who were place. (? Not sure what this paragraph is trying to say)

He was informed once again that there are direct friends that have explained that he has crapped on friends and asked them to lie about sexual activities with a girlfriend of his friends. These boys say that he takes them always in the maling (?) and manipulates.
He was faced once again with the declaration of the girl Martina, who was given something to drink, offered at the sexual community with him and as a result of which her lips tingled.The suspect did not react.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=385.0

[bleachedblack]

Thanks buckeye.  The tango is going to be later tonight.  I have company...I don't know why they didn't get the memo. RES

Hi Lala's I'd like to come if you know what time it will be.

[Lala'sMom]

Is this thread sticky?  Just curious.  Anyway, what should we start with? 

[klaasend]

Is this thread sticky?  Just curious.  Anyway, what should we start with? 

Yes, it's a sticky 

[Lala'sMom]

It seems we are still arguing the 5th suspect.  Depends on whom you listen to as to the identity.  For any new posters reading, I will try to rehash this topic.  Anyone feel free to lead in a new direction.  I am  open to any ideas.

[Lala'sMom]

Is this thread sticky?  Just curious.  Anyway, what should we start with? 

Yes, it's a sticky 

  

[Lala'sMom]

Thought some might like to read some of these about Lorenzo from AG.
 

Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) / Natalee Breaking News Archive / RBN # 12 - 6/19 - 6/20/05
on: June 19, 2005, 09:18:35 PM
Started by Catriana, Message by arubagirl
Relevance: 30.6%
Lorenzo is a guy that got held in for questioning.

Remember the whole Lorenzo basement thing is a R-U-M-O-R.

[Lala'sMom]

Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) / Natalee Breaking News Archive / RBN #20 - 6/23/05 Evening
on: June 23, 2005, 06:43:26 PM
Started by Catriana, Message by arubagirl
Relevance: 34.4%
saninmytoes, RUMOR, I repeat, RUMOR has it that Lorenzo van Rijn may have NH in his house due to his being v/d Sloots bastard son.

Yes, I know. Crazy.

[Lala'sMom]

1
 Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) / Natalee Breaking News Archive / RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 10
on: June 18, 2005, 08:17:19 PM
 Message by americaninaruba
Quote from: "DJTAYLOR"
Quote from: "Ting"
If I understand correctly, Lorenzo is said to be the son of Paulus van der Sloot by a woman not his wife. Does anyone know if this relationship is acknowledged? And has Mr. van der Sloot been involved in the life of this son? Who is the mother, and does she live in Aruba?

BUT i thought they said his dad killed himself or somthing, my god ahahahahah what a confusion huh?   :0)


Lorenzos father (Van Geijn) committed suicicede like 3 or 4 eyars ago the "rumor" that hes VDSLoots soon is just that...A RRUMOR


 Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE) / Natalee Breaking News Archive / RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS # 6
on: June 17, 2005, 07:42:03 AM
Message by americaninaruba

Quote from: "Professor"
To American in Aruba: Are you sure about that identity? Fox News says he has the initials SGC and is the son of a prominent member of the judiciary. How can that be, if his father committed suicide?


OK im sosorry for mixign this up...its just i have liek 30 people on my back at the same time and im at work answerign the phone! LOl
ok the Boy taht hsi father commited suicide (Lorenzo is his name) he was arrrested YESTERDAY...the one of TODAY (SGC) i have not been confirmed a name yet...but i dont know who his parents are

[Lala'sMom]

Well, I guess no one is interested right now.  I will check back later.  I need to rest my feet.

[Ree]

Well, I guess no one is interested right now.  I will check back later.  I need to rest my feet.

I'm in.  Sorry, I was trying to catch up reading the LCD and over at BFN.  They've been doing a little Tango over there as well.

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>

No idea who Simian is, but very sure that he's a pretty bright guy and was extremely close to the investigation. He somewhere says that he knows the prison from the inside (and I don't mean as a prisoner...) and that he had a tour when he was inaugurated. That really sounds like a legal guy, maybe high up in the DA office or a partner at a law firm. Haven't pinged Shango neither did I check his IP address or its consistent use. My guess is that he's from Aruba (based on the strong way he defends Aruba and pushes back on all the American biased non-sense he reads from his fellow posters (he was right on many points, f.i. about Aruba being an alleged transfer country for selling American girls to Latin America.)

<snipped>

Was that the answer you were looking for?

ALL THE AMERICAN BIASED NON-SENSE!!!!

Yes I found the answer "I" was looking for regarding your agenda.

Janet

[truthseeker2]

Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.

Your campaign will probably not win many converts here, but hey, you had to try.

Come on, guys. That's not fair. I'm not running a 'campaign', I'm just keeping all options open and testing a hypothesis. Why these emotional responses? Why not just convince me with arguments?

I've spent since June 9th (the Jensen show) on trying to conceive of a plausible scenarios based on the available evidence that only involves J2K + maybe Paulus. Jon (from Scrux) has made a good analysis and reflected that in his essay. But like with many on the web, there seems to be a natural inclination that when you get stuck, you'd start to open up your mind for other scenarios. 

For what it's worth, my first reaction on the Jenfro story is here:

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054

I still believe it's a pretty nuanced view, although it also intends to hold up the mirror for those who believe that no other scenario's then "J2K did it" and "Aruba is a backward, corrupt and cheating country" exist. I'm from the Netherlands and actually don't feel constraints in considering other any scenario, even if my country would be embarassed by it.

Awareness of a bias is the first step...

fierljepper,

The biggest problem I have with your MB kids met up with Nat and J to go to Lorenzo's party where she died and they all agreed not to tell is that:

1. Joran and K2's lied right off the bat about the HI.  That never happened and they admitted it later.  No reason to lie and say she fell and hit her head if she had died of a drug overdose.

2. Once they were caught in the lie I do not believe Joran would sit in jail that long and involve his entire family just to protect some kids from MB.  That makes absolutely no sense to me.

3. According to Joran's book translation, Van Der Straten told Joran he would make sure he didn't have to go to prison and would go to a mental hospital instead.  Yet Joran doesn't say anything about the MB kids then or now.  Doesn't make sense especially since the island he says he loves is taking a big hit.

These points are just off the top of my head and I know I can provide you with even more if I spent more time on it.

And you should know...I never create a post based on emotion.  Sorry to disappoint you there, but I am an analyst by profession and I prefer to deal in facts and real possiblities.  To be totally truthful with you, two years ago I was tempted to believe the MB students were more involved than we were being told.  But, after two years of proven lies coming from Aruba I no longer feel that is the case.  Nor am I biased.  I have been following this since the very beginning and have kept up with the details.  For you to assume that I am biased may just be a bias that you have yourself.  Is that possible as well?

[Ree]

Agree truthseeker. Fierljepper, nice attempt to make Shango fit Julia Renfro's cock-haired lies. Bad news, they never factored into the investigation because they were all fabricated with no evidence to back up any of them. You might try fitting the verses together with what we do know and there are plenty of sources from ALE and the Dutch that indicate Joran, Paulus  and the Kalpoes are your perpetrators.

Your campaign will probably not win many converts here, but hey, you had to try.

Come on, guys. That's not fair. I'm not running a 'campaign', I'm just keeping all options open and testing a hypothesis. Why these emotional responses? Why not just convince me with arguments?

I've spent since June 9th (the Jensen show) on trying to conceive of a plausible scenarios based on the available evidence that only involves J2K + maybe Paulus. Jon (from Scrux) has made a good analysis and reflected that in his essay. But like with many on the web, there seems to be a natural inclination that when you get stuck, you'd start to open up your mind for other scenarios. 

For what it's worth, my first reaction on the Jenfro story is here:

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3054#3054

I still believe it's a pretty nuanced view, although it also intends to hold up the mirror for those who believe that no other scenario's then "J2K did it" and "Aruba is a backward, corrupt and cheating country" exist. I'm from the Netherlands and actually don't feel constraints in considering other any scenario, even if my country would be embarassed by it.

Awareness of a bias is the first step...

I did go back and read your posts at Scrux.  You contend that Beth went to Aruba with a stong bias about what a backward place it is.  Other than an obvious anti-American bias, what do you base that on?  What facts bring you to the conclusion that most Western countries, especially the US are biased against other countries systems?  While it is only natural for a citizen of any country to proclaim theirs the best, what makes this rise to a stong bias against Aruba.  Beth apparently did not feel so strongly that Aruba was a backward third world county, that she prevented her daughter from going.  Perhaps you need to look in the mirror before you are pointing fingers at bias.