SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[truthseeker2]

Hello Ms DV,

Klaas went through and identified the posts that were from the original 'Simian'.  These two that you highlighted were not in the list that Klass provided.  Here's a link to the ones Klaas included as the 'Real Simian".

June 27th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Her decapitated body to be found.
Her head to wash up on shore later.

Simian Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:58 am
They have found her. Watch your news stations for this one. I said this was to happen. You can praise The Simian later.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0

[Lala'sMom]

Just exactly how do we know there is a REAL Simian?  Wouldn't they all be just as legitimate as the other.  Just because your IP changes doesn't mean your not privy to information that we don't have.  I have a hard time getting around the real Simian and the fake ones.  What makes them fake?  Just wondering. Is a fake Simian a doppleganger or someone that is being silly because they find Simian to be a goof ball?  I know, I am rambling, but that word "fake" is still bothering me here.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Just exactly how do we know there is a REAL Simian?  Wouldn't they all be just as legitimate as the other.  Just because your IP changes doesn't mean your not privy to information that we don't have.  I have a hard time getting around the real Simian and the fake ones.  What makes them fake?  Just wondering. Is a fake Simian a doppleganger or someone that is being silly because they find Simian to be a goof ball?  I know, I am rambling, but that word "fake" is still bothering me here.

Lala's, I think the 'real' Simian was determined only by the IP & origin on Aruba.  I don't think we've ever known where the 'fake' Simian(s), doppelganger, or whatever were posting from. 

I do follow your train of thought, however.  Who is to say his/her/their input was 'fake', not factual (fully or partially) or total fiction.  It is also not known if the 'fake' was just drawing attention to his/her self, deliberately misleading or part of the whole information/misinformation attempts. 

[Lala'sMom]

The answer to the IP question is a simple one. Maybe Klaas would elaborate for us.  Were all the IP's for all the Simians in Aruba? Were there any from Florida?   I wonder why I haven't asked this before.  Also, what about Shango?  Were there fake Shangos too?  If so how do we know they were fakes? What is our criteria in determining this?  I understand that the Merian Ernest posts were the same IP as Simian.  Is that correct?  Just curious. 

[MsVada]

Call me crazy....but here goes....the posters.CRS and CHECKME were outed way back at the beginning of all of this as people that were part of the undercover investigation or possibly  FBI.  I honestly remember reading this on Dan Riehl's site shortly after these were posted, (they posted there too) and then the post by Dan was removed.  I thought it was odd at the time, and still to this day think there was some validity to it.  Because right after that statement was made,  CRS nor CHECKME ever posted again under those names.  AND I specifically remember being on another site (maybe it was the "summer house" that was a spin off from the codetalkers threads) and ALLYINMIAMI came there desperately looking for CHECKME, 

[MsVada]

The answer to the IP question is a simple one. Maybe Klaas would elaborate for us.  Were all the IP's for all the Simians in Aruba? Were there any from Florida?   I wonder why I haven't asked this before.  Also, what about Shango?  Were there fake Shangos too?  If so how do we know they were fakes? What is our criteria in determining this?  I understand that the Merian Ernest posts were the same IP as Simian.  Is that correct?  Just curious. 

Lala's,  If I remember right,  whether you were in Florida or Aruba,  IP's could show up as Florida for Aruba. 

[MsVada]

The answer to the IP question is a simple one. Maybe Klaas would elaborate for us.  Were all the IP's for all the Simians in Aruba? Were there any from Florida?   I wonder why I haven't asked this before.  Also, what about Shango?  Were there fake Shangos too?  If so how do we know they were fakes? What is our criteria in determining this?  I understand that the Merian Ernest posts were the same IP as Simian.  Is that correct?  Just curious. 

Lala's  The only thing I can say about whether they were the real Simian or not, was AllyinMiami said she was the only one that could vouch for them being real or not because he'd type to her in spanish.  I can remember the day she barged into a codetalkers thread to tell us what was what and that she was the only one that could tell if he was real or not. 

[Lala'sMom]

The answer to the IP question is a simple one. Maybe Klaas would elaborate for us.  Were all the IP's for all the Simians in Aruba? Were there any from Florida?   I wonder why I haven't asked this before.  Also, what about Shango?  Were there fake Shangos too?  If so how do we know they were fakes? What is our criteria in determining this?  I understand that the Merian Ernest posts were the same IP as Simian.  Is that correct?  Just curious. 

Lala's  The only thing I can say about whether they were the real Simian or not, was AllyinMiami said she was the only one that could vouch for them being real or not because he'd type to her in spanish.  I can remember the day she barged into a codetalkers thread to tell us what was what and that she was the only one that could tell if he was real or not. 

Yes, I know about AllyinMiami.  I have read much of her stuff from the FP.  She is one interesting character. She also knows Shango, the real Shango.

[Lala'sMom]

Call me crazy....but here goes....the posters.CRS and CHECKME were outed way back at the beginning of all of this as people that were part of the undercover investigation or possibly  FBI.  I honestly remember reading this on Dan Riehl's site shortly after these were posted, (they posted there too) and then the post by Dan was removed.  I thought it was odd at the time, and still to this day think there was some validity to it.  Because right after that statement was made,  CRS nor CHECKME ever posted again under those names.  AND I specifically remember being on another site (maybe it was the "summer house" that was a spin off from the codetalkers threads) and ALLYINMIAMI came there desperately looking for CHECKME, 

Nope, I know about Checkme too.  CRS and Checkme had a secret between them also.  I have read much from them also.  In fact, at one point CRS tells where he/she is from.     Checkme responded in certain ways that compared to others also.  Checkme morphed into another poster. Simian knew who Checkme was.  Checkme knew Simian.  Ally knew all of them.  Maybe Ally was the go between.  CRS knew Checkme.  Defended Checkme on most all occasions. It takes a lot of reading, but you can see it if you read and reread FP posts.  There is another poster that knew who they were also.

[MsVada]

New girl  was one,  I've read and reread a lot,  I must not see what you see.  And I'd prefer not to continue talking in riddles,  just spill what you know.  If you cant do it here,  then get my email from Klaas


Yes I see what you are saying, but I still know what I saw posted by Dan Riehl about CRS and Checkme,  what about that?

Rockyroads stated at one time that this was all some  internet game that a group of posters was playing and none of them really knew anything she left shortly thereafter from this site because she felt someone was playing a sick game on us and she didn't like it.   

[Lala'sMom]

I am sorry, didn't realize I was riddling.  I don't think I am that good.  What is it I wasn't clear on?  I don't know Checkme, I just suspect as some do that he was connected to ALE.  CRS, said where he/she was from.  And the other person I was talking about was Lucy.  Sorry, if  I sounded like I was trying to keep something from everyone.  Not my intention. 

[Lala'sMom]

Also, as for the sick game...I would not be surprised.  That has been my suspicions all along. However, there are certain things that we can now verify as being correct from some of these posters.  So even as a game, they had inside info on certain occasions.  JMO

[MsVada]

Also, as for the sick game...I would not be surprised.  That has been my suspicions all along. However, there are certain things that we can now verify as being correct from some of these posters.  So even as a game, they had inside info on certain occasions.  JMO

Its okay Lala's,  I consider you the Shango tango expert,  I am just a mere novice !  hehe
I thought you knew for sure for sure, who they were. I saw Lucy's name, but not as much as New Girl's 
I  will go look for the info that Rocky had sent me way back, showing the gaming piece of all of this. It is  a fascinating read.  I had decided back then, no matter if this was a game or not, it didn't matter to me,  as long as  we are searching for answers for Natalee,  that Id keep doing this. 

[Stom]

Well, what you have done here is not any different that anyone else...you've made assumptions as well.  You see through your prescription glasses and others see through theirs.

For me, placing the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters encourages me to believe that Shango's Dirty Hand is Jan Van Der Straten.

I expressed my thoughts in a conversational manner.  I didn’t use them to present an argument meant to give validity to any point (i. e. to construct a fact by will).

It may make sense to present the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters.  As you say, it encourages you to believe that Shango’s Dirty Hand is Jan van der Straten.  I suspect that is because you selectively chose the comments that give validity to your “theory”, which is the same as using one’s prescription glasses to see a wanted picture, or the same as choosing only what one needs to satisfy the challenge of making our “facts” fit, in order to make the story convincing.

Take a look at DitchJumper’s theory, posted a few pages back.  He uses the same selective technique to propose that the guilty party may be someone “from the other side of the pond”, using the Simian posts as support.  DJ has proposed a thesis that could very well make a lot of sense if duly supported by arguments devised to explain a group of proposed facts. 

Both your proposal and Ditch’s make sense within the scope of discussions limited to well structured boundaries.  If one is willing to give validity to one but not the other, then it may be that one has become so attached to the first, that it is necessary to defend it at all cost ...one "owns it".


 “It's like deja-vu, all over again” (Yogi Berra).

[Tylergal]

See my logic is from an old mind that moves horizontally only but I think there is a Dirty Hand and there is a dirty hand, and they all are connected.  I think Dirty Hand is Rudy Croes and I think there is another dirty hand who is connected but I might not want to say here who I believe it to be.  Lala's and I might agree in part in some of this, perhaps not all.  I have not had her say that to me but I think I am reading between the lines.

[truthseeker2]

Well, what you have done here is not any different that anyone else...you've made assumptions as well.  You see through your prescription glasses and others see through theirs.

For me, placing the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters encourages me to believe that Shango's Dirty Hand is Jan Van Der Straten.

I expressed my thoughts in a conversational manner.  I didn’t use them to present an argument meant to give validity to any point (i. e. to construct a fact by will).

It may make sense to present the quotes in the correct order and applying the context of the other posters.  As you say, it encourages you to believe that Shango’s Dirty Hand is Jan van der Straten.  I suspect that is because you selectively chose the comments that give validity to your “theory”, which is the same as using one’s prescription glasses to see a wanted picture, or the same as choosing only what one needs to satisfy the challenge of making our “facts” fit, in order to make the story convincing.

Take a look at DitchJumper’s theory, posted a few pages back.  He uses the same selective technique to propose that the guilty party may be someone “from the other side of the pond”, using the Simian posts as support.  DJ has proposed a thesis that could very well make a lot of sense if duly supported by arguments devised to explain a group of proposed facts. 

Both your proposal and Ditch’s make sense within the scope of discussions limited to well structured boundaries.  If one is willing to give validity to one but not the other, then it may be that one has become so attached to the first, that it is necessary to defend it at all cost ...one "owns it".


 “It's like deja-vu, all over again” (Yogi Berra).

Stom,

I'll try to simplify this for you as you seem more interested in pushing some goofy psychological theory on why I provided those Shango quotes.  They were not 'selectively' chosen.  The were copied, for your benefit, in the order in which they were posted by Shango and those who were interested in deciphering his posts.  That's it...very simple.  Nothing premediated about it on my part.  I didn't write them, I just read them.  Then I provided them for you so that you can understand the simplicity.  Unless you are Shango I don't think you can refute what is clear.
So....are you Shango?

[truthseeker2]

Reposted:
Please note the additional posts in red.  Have you read Shango??


Is Van Der Straten Dirty Hand???


Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 4:00 am
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:12 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
If the cowboys do not find the loot today, it will not be found

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:26 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting
Simian your Doppleganger is with us

Shango on June 27th, 2005 12:28 pm
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his
12:30 AM posting

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive
Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

drax on June 27th, 2005 10:57 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze:…is DirtyHand Poppa VDS?

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:01 pm
The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post

drax on June 27th, 2005 11:08 pm
Shango says: The Drax asks a question for which he already provided an answer.
I don’t understand, Shango.

Babalú on June 27th, 2005 11:10 pm
He’s talking about Dirty Hands identity, please refer to my post of yesterday 12:30 AM. He is JVDS, and not Joran.

Lucy on June 27th, 2005 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Shango on June 27th, 2005 11:13 pm
Lucy spoke at 10:56

watcher on June 30th, 2005 2:29 am
I think Subdude is on the right track about the media putting pressure on WHY the polis chief is leaving.


Shango on June 30th, 2005 2:31 am
Watcher opened a window looking onto babylon at 2:29.
He holds the key to the ONLY door which opens the door to the lions den

[COLOMBO]

72: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew the girl. [knew=owed?]

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for Natalee and he is the chief of Polis. ["why did the girl owe money?"]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:45 pm
Windows looking onto Babylon are being opened by the ThreadSurfers

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:04 pm
Babalu opened a window looking onto Babylon with his 12:30 A.M. post [who is "behind that window?"]

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak

Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.

A sacrifice will be made to spare the police; [arawak=polis?]
to spare the teepees [marriages]

He holds the real key [holds a key, and is behind a window looking ONTO Babylon]

[Kermit]

PARADISE

DAVE HOLLOWAY

PAGE 209

The Lions - Those in the higher clique, at the top of the illegal activity on Aruba, those considered to be untouchable, i.e. can get away with murder, possibly natalee's murderers or kidnappers.  This is a motel on the island near the VIP Club that is called the "Lion's Den."  It is a very secluded place with guards.  People have been seen entering with young girls and photography equipment.


Many influential Dutch citizens are members of the Aruba Lions Club at http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2004-2005.htm while some of the younger well-known names are members of Air Aruba Virtual Airlines at http://www.arubaaviation.com/fqpilots.html
http://www.bastardly.com/archives/2005/07/23/what-really-happened-to-natalee-holloway/

[Lala'sMom]

Colombo
Which do you think was more accurate? Shango or Simian?
Do you still think the 5th suspect was Paulus?  Why?