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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1  (Read 1372203 times)
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #300 on: August 18, 2007, 11:53:34 PM »

I think the evidence was more along the lines of wire taps and cell phone logs. But then again what do I know.  Rolling Eyes
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« Reply #301 on: August 19, 2007, 01:37:31 AM »

No way will I ever believe that Paulus was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  No way no day.  Natalee would not be interrested in him that way.  Not a chance. 
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Stom
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« Reply #302 on: August 19, 2007, 10:05:12 AM »

For Christ’s sake, stop the fabulation.  Once and for all, Paulus arrived from Holland on Sunday May 29th.  Where did Natalee and Paulus establish a relationship before that?  Mountain Brook?  Groningen?  Where was it that they met? 

Stop trying to force that Paulus is the boyfriend from earlier in the week, just because you can't tell the difference between different sources referring to the 5th suspect as being one person at one point in time and another, the media, referring to Paulus as the 5th suspect later on.

“Elementary, My Dear Watson!” This obtuseness says a lot about the discerning and detectivesque abilities of those that insist on Paulus being Natalee’s boyfriend before her disappearance.  It suggests that evidence fabrication is chosen over the immediate fact:  Paulus arrived from Holland that day.

If they ever met, Paulus and Natalee couldn’t have met until the eve of her disappearance, May 29th, 2005, or in the early hours of May 20th, 2005.


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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #303 on: August 19, 2007, 10:17:36 AM »

Klaasend has compiled a thread here with all of the Simian posts that were made from Aruba with same IP, I believe. 

When I read Colombo's last post, it would seem that some of his Simian quotes were not listed on that thread.  This would mean that the references to the 5th suspect may have been made by the dopelganger or someone posting as Simian in another locale, if my search was accurate. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0
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« Reply #304 on: August 19, 2007, 11:37:28 AM »

No way will I ever believe that Paulus was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  No way no day.  Natalee would not be interrested in him that way.  Not a chance. 


I strongly agree with Klaas here.  Natalee would not be interested in Paulus.
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« Reply #305 on: August 19, 2007, 04:11:26 PM »

All:

Don't let preconceived notions impede objective analysis

I believe that Shango gets closer the the heart of the underlying motivations

"play" the "game".......
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #306 on: August 20, 2007, 09:25:08 AM »

For Christ’s sake, stop the fabulation.  Once and for all, Paulus arrived from Holland on Sunday May 29th.  Where did Natalee and Paulus establish a relationship before that?  Mountain Brook?  Groningen?  Where was it that they met? 

Stop trying to force that Paulus is the boyfriend from earlier in the week, just because you can't tell the difference between different sources referring to the 5th suspect as being one person at one point in time and another, the media, referring to Paulus as the 5th suspect later on.

“Elementary, My Dear Watson!” This obtuseness says a lot about the discerning and detectivesque abilities of those that insist on Paulus being Natalee’s boyfriend before her disappearance.  It suggests that evidence fabrication is chosen over the immediate fact:  Paulus arrived from Holland that day.

If they ever met, Paulus and Natalee couldn’t have met until the eve of her disappearance, May 29th, 2005, or in the early hours of May 20th, 2005.




Well, Stom, it has finally happened.  You and I agree 100% on this one.  I have never considered Paulus the 5th suspect of the Simian posts.

Now...the references to a party and the 'information' that was put out about Lorenzo having  a party at his house (have not ever been able to verify that other than people posting on ALL of the blogs) leads to Loreanzo being the 5th suspect.  If someone else had a party at their house that night we do not who it was.  Could have been Guido, Freddy, Andres, the Gottenbos brothers...

We do, however, know that Lorenzo was questioned very early in the case as compared to the others I mentioned above...except maybe for Freddy, so I am going with Lorenzo until I can find some information that points to someone else.  I do not think it is Paulus.
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« Reply #307 on: August 20, 2007, 06:12:16 PM »

Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.
(conciousness would not be required)

  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze

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Stom
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« Reply #308 on: August 21, 2007, 07:02:53 PM »


Well, Stom, it has finally happened.  You and I agree 100% on this one.  I have never considered Paulus the 5th suspect of the Simian posts.

Now...the references to a party and the 'information' that was put out about Lorenzo having  a party at his house (have not ever been able to verify that other than people posting on ALL of the blogs) leads to Loreanzo being the 5th suspect.  If someone else had a party at their house that night we do not who it was.  Could have been Guido, Freddy, Andres, the Gottenbos brothers...

We do, however, know that Lorenzo was questioned very early in the case as compared to the others I mentioned above...except maybe for Freddy, so I am going with Lorenzo until I can find some information that points to someone else.  I do not think it is Paulus.

We agree on one, disagree on Shango and other than that we just fail to concur on what absence of bias is.  The following is not a theory, hypothesis, postulate or  thesis.

I don’t know if there was a party that Joran and Natalee could bave gone to.  If I am not mistaken, there was a family gathering at Freddy’s and consequently he had an alibi.  Koen Gottenbos was in Florida.  So at the risk of being overconfident with the available information, we can discard Freddy and the older Gottenbos boy as being hosts of an event that night.

Sander, a minor, lived with his family and Andres lived at home also.  I am willing to concede that they would not have held the type of party we are proposing at home.  So I discard the Santos and the Gottenbos homes as possible wild party sites.

We just have Guido now.  I don’t think he would have had a crazy party at his parents’ home either.  Possibly, he could have attended/had a private party at the casino somewhere, but if he did, Joran didn’t take Natalee there because they never made it back to the hotel.  I think it is unlikely that Guido and Joran ran into each other in the early hours of May 30th.   “The gamblers knew the girl” and possibly, the gamblers were ravers also, but nothing more.

What is very significant is:

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm 
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:02 pm 
The Kalpoes have nothing to spill. They don’t what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm 
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.
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COLOMBO
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« Reply #309 on: August 21, 2007, 08:02:27 PM »

http://www.honeymooncruiseshopper.com/aruba%20wyndham%20casablanca%20casino.html

-in a glamorous, glittering Arabic atmosphere (Babylon?)

-We also feature a special high limit exclusive area.....
(for those who 'ROLL'....lions?)

-The Casino Bar offers specialty drink favorites and live music which will keep the rhythm of the night pumping

-walk away with your pockets filled with merchandise, cash, restaurant discount coupons, weekend stays and even a new car! (but the road is not paved)
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MsVada
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« Reply #310 on: August 21, 2007, 09:05:37 PM »

No way will I ever believe that Paulus was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.  No way no day.  Natalee would not be interrested in him that way.  Not a chance. 


I strongly agree with Klaas here.  Natalee would not be interested in Paulus.


Heck NO,  Natalee interested in Paulus??  That is just plain gross
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« Reply #311 on: August 22, 2007, 07:51:25 AM »

http://hcgtv.net/viewtopic.php?id=1143&p=7
2005-06-30 9:30 pm
very_strange
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Re: Paul Van Der Sloot arrested
My take on Shango and Simian,

Natalee and her first boyfriend were in the casino gambling. It's on videotape. Her first boyfriend owns a gigantic house(wonder how he paid for it?) in the sticks where he has all night rave parties. The party goers have provided an alibi for their friend (he was with them)This boyfriend also owns a fancy cigarette speedboat (does anyone have any idea how much those things cost?) and 2 other houses. This boyfriend also is reported to be a major drug dealer.(hmm maybe thats where he gets all his money?) The police and politicians reportedly have their hands in the cookie jar of the drug trade. If the first boyfriend is arrested, he might name names. The cover-up is not for Joran, but for the first boyfriend...
2005-06-30 10:35 pm
very_strange
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Re: Paul Van Der Sloot arrested
Aruban blogger says,

"Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Cant deny it. Its on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.

First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.

How can this ever be solved?"

Suspect L.V.R. questioned and released. Lorenzo Van Rijn.
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #312 on: August 22, 2007, 12:09:23 PM »


We agree on one, disagree on Shango and other than that we just fail to concur on what absence of bias is.  The following is not a theory, hypothesis, postulate or  thesis.

I don’t know if there was a party that Joran and Natalee could bave gone to.  If I am not mistaken, there was a family gathering at Freddy’s and consequently he had an alibi.  Koen Gottenbos was in Florida.  So at the risk of being overconfident with the available information, we can discard Freddy and the older Gottenbos boy as being hosts of an event that night.

Sander, a minor, lived with his family and Andres lived at home also.  I am willing to concede that they would not have held the type of party we are proposing at home.  So I discard the Santos and the Gottenbos homes as possible wild party sites.

We just have Guido now.  I don’t think he would have had a crazy party at his parents’ home either.  Possibly, he could have attended/had a private party at the casino somewhere, but if he did, Joran didn’t take Natalee there because they never made it back to the hotel.  I think it is unlikely that Guido and Joran ran into each other in the early hours of May 30th.   “The gamblers knew the girl” and possibly, the gamblers were ravers also, but nothing more.

What is very significant is:

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 am
The boy was picked up at 23:00 on Sunday at Mickey D’s. Sneaked out later. Was on time for school. Don’t mix things up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm 
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 4:02 pm 
The Kalpoes have nothing to spill. They don’t what the father did. Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm 
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.


First, before we go any further, I fully understand what is and is not a bias.  As I told you before, I am an analyst by profession.

Now...in order to evaluate Simian and Shango you have to be able to move outside the box of their posts.  Why?  Because they were rarely direct.  That said, I would like to move on since I do believe you and I are not as far off in our interpretations as you may think.

So...with respect to who had a party...from the posts of Simian, who likes to refer to this person as the 5th suspect, the only person we have heard of that had a party that night was Lorenzo.  We do know there was an 'after concert' party at La Cabana but have not seen anything on the witness/suspect list that indicates they spoke to anyone about that one.  If they did, we have not found a way to connect it to La Cabana.  So...that still leaves us with Lorenzo and possibly Freddy.  You have to admit that an alibi provided by family members may or may not be the complete truth.  So I don’t totally discount Freddy yet except that Simian says the party was at “his house"…which means Freddy has almost dropped off my list as a candidate for the 5th suspect.

As far as the Simian quotes you provided…a few things come to mind:

1.   If you check the thread where the ‘Real Simian’ posts are you will not find the June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 post.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0
That post confirms what Joran and Paulus said, but does it comfirm what really happened or what ALE believes?  If Simian’s contact is ALE, but Simian did not really post this (a doppleganger), then it is only significant in terms of analyzing what we know Paulus and Joran have said.  The other three quotes do appear on the list of quotes attributed to the real Simian.

2.   Simian’s doppleganger repeats what Paulus and Joran have said about the 11:00 pm (23:00) pick of Joran by Paulus at McDonalds.  Yet, at 10:33 pm (23:33) someone logs into Joran’s email on the Van Der Sloot computer.  Now, is it possible that Paulus did not pick Joran up at McDonalds at 11:00 pm (23:00), but at some later time?  And that someone else took Joran home from the casino thereby placing Joran at home by 10:33 pm (23:33)?  Is it possible that Paulus picked Joran up in the early morning hours?  Maybe 04:00 am the next morning?  Even the Simian posts  do not clearly say what time a phone call was made - 02:00 am or 04:00 am?  If ALE is working with  phone records and Simian’s contact is ALE, then this should not be a question, unless there were two phone calls made.  This has not been cleared up.

3.   The third quote gives us an indication that ALE does believe the Kalpoes…again, if you believe Simian was in contact with someone close to the investigation …which I do.

4.   In the last quote Simian contradicts what is said by the doppleganger Simian.  Was Joran on time or late for school the next day.  According to Paulus, he cannot remember for sure how Joran got to school that day.  According to the headmaster Joran was there.  According to Simian he was there, but he was late.  I don’t think the question of  Joran’s attendace or punctuality has been answered.



Shango on the other hand does not even get into the school issue nor does he refer to a 5th suspect.  But, he does refer to the 46th spirit (Bifrons) and he does address the alibi.  See my next post.
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« Reply #313 on: August 22, 2007, 12:17:17 PM »

At times it seems Simian and Shango are responding to what each other posts.  I post these quotes for the purpose of tracking the discussions regarding the alibi, which Shango says can be broken.  Previously, we were discussing Lorenzo and his alibi. (and Freddy with his alibi), what Paulus said about picking Joran up, and the Kalpoes not knowing what happened.  (all this based on your Simian quotes)  I have included all of the posts so as not to interrupt continuity.

Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:27 PM
The elder had to come clean. He knows what damaged he had caused. The Simian said to not shake the wire, ’cause the bird would fly away.
The Simian would never pose. Go back and read what the Simian wrote. The Babylonians knows what happened, but they are up in arms. The gamblers knew the girl.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand!

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
the struggle between the babylonians and the arawaks still remains hidden
the arawaks awaited the key
his lordship said no
the door to eden remains closed
they are preparing the fire

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
Many pioneers have settled with the tribe


Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:36 PM
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….


Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:48 PM
The boy told the Hindus that he didn’t need their help anymore. This was in the small hours. The confrontation was brutal.
So who heeded his call? Who switched places?
People…the bloodied, swollen tongue. The boy’s fear runs deep. They accuse him to be Bifrons.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response

Shango on June 26th, 2005 9:51 pm
The 46th spirit does not walk the same circle as the elders, this shall be his downfall

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
The Tribe knows all of the players, even the elders of the inner circle


Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 9:53 PM
The Simain thinks that Babalú is clueless about who the Babylonians are. The Simian thinks that is really funny.
The Simian will make an exception and answer: The gamblers knew he girl.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders
Babylon knows

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
The cowboys hear the singing but don’t understand the words

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders


Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 10:03 PM
The alibi needs to be broken. The dogs have pouches on their feet. They are checking the dirty waters in Noord.
The Babylonians know what the girl did earlier in the week. Therein lies the motive. The third act will played soon, but the boy is not Ajax. He is too afraid to pull off such a feat.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon?
DirtyHand knows, this is his Power
there will be 46 sacrifices

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:08 pm
The 46th will pay for the children of the Elders

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
DirtyHand walks in ALL houses
houses of the Arawaks, and houses of Rave
He can break the alibi

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin
The Arawaks know
The cowboys know
DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles
The Simian knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:23 pm
Old treaties between the Babylonians and the Arawaks were maintained until the gods heard
Babylon now fears reprisals
the fires are lit
there will be 46 sacrifices


Name: Simian | Posted Jun 26, 10:24 PM
The boy is no *Ajax. He is too afraid of the consequences. He doesn’t want to be made a cafone.
The third act needs to be played and the cowboys will be heroes.
This is all a **“lugubrious game” to them. They were all at the party and all of them are turning their heads. One of them needs to be pinched.


*Ajax was the son of Telamon. He was a Trojan War hero on the side of the Greeks. When Achilles was killed, his armor was to be awarded to the next greatest Greek hero. Ajax thought it should go to him. Ajax went mad and tried to kill his comrades when the armor was awarded to Odysseus, instead. Athena intervened by making Ajax think cattle were his former allies. When Ajax realized he had slaughtered the herd, he committed suicide as his only honorable end.  On June 20th, SM posted a blurp about Joran being on suicide watch.   http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1164


**“lugubrious game” - Dali's stated desire "to systematize confusion and contribute to the total discrediting of the world of reality.  It is one of Dali's classic surreal images of sexual persecution and an obsession with castration and masturbation. It is also an image that plays off of psychic automatism and Freudian dream logic: displacement, condensation, and fetish.

If you believe Dirty Hand is Van Der Straten - which I do - Then it appears that Van Der Straten can break the alibi of the suspect who had a party.  If you believe Lorenzo had the party then you have to believe Loreanzo shares some degree of guilt.  imo
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« Reply #314 on: August 22, 2007, 02:21:23 PM »

don’t know if there was a party that Joran and Natalee could bave gone to.  If I am not mistaken, there was a family gathering at Freddy’s and consequently he had an alibi.  Koen Gottenbos was in Florida.  So at the risk of being overconfident with the available information, we can discard Freddy and the older Gottenbos boy as being hosts of an event that night.

Never happened.  He was said to be at a family reunion in Florida but it was not true.  Freddy was in Aruba.
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« Reply #315 on: August 23, 2007, 10:24:30 AM »

tyler you raise an important point, I think it's impossible to rely upon the statements of Joran or Freddy and particularly not Paulus for accurate information. Koen never made a statement, only his father and Sander.

So I can understand and respect all opinions but I also cannot accept that any of us truly know the true whereabouts of any involved here either. Speculation rules in all things related to Aruba and this case, so the brainstorming around the fifth suspect I do not see as a waste of time either.

I'm not a shango/simian expert either but I do think we don't even have the bare bones of accuracy in any measure from the statements, not even close.
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« Reply #316 on: August 23, 2007, 12:23:10 PM »

First, before we go any further, I fully understand what is and is not a bias.  As I told you before, I am an analyst by profession.
Credentials acknowledged!

Quote
Now...in order to evaluate Simian and Shango you have to be able to move outside the box of their posts.  Why?  Because they were rarely direct.  That said, I would like to move on since I do believe you and I are not as far off in our interpretations as you may think.
The Simian’s comments are more than mostly indirect.  They can also be inconsistent and contradictory.  Information about various subjects change as the hours and days change.


Quote
As far as the Simian quotes you provided…a few things come to mind:

1.   If you check the thread where the ‘Real Simian’ posts are you will not find the June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 post.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0
That post confirms what Joran and Paulus said, but does it comfirm what really happened or what ALE believes?  If Simian’s contact is ALE, but Simian did not really post this (a doppleganger), then it is only significant in terms of analyzing what we know Paulus and Joran have said.  The other three quotes do appear on the list of quotes attributed to the real Simian.
If Joran was picked up before 22:33 or at 23:00 is inconsequential.  He had not run into Natalee for the final time, so what happened between 22:33 PM and the time of arrival at C&C does not affect the final outcome, which is the key issue.


Quote
Simian’s doppleganger repeats what Paulus and Joran have said about the 11:00 pm (23:00) pick of Joran by Paulus at McDonalds.  Yet, at 10:33 pm (23:33) someone logs into Joran’s email on the Van Der Sloot computer.  Now, is it possible that Paulus did not pick Joran up at McDonalds at 11:00 pm (23:00), but at some later time?  And that someone else took Joran home from the casino thereby placing Joran at home by 10:33 pm (23:33)?  Is it possible that Paulus picked Joran up in the early morning hours?  Maybe 04:00 am the next morning?  Even the Simian posts  do not clearly say what time a phone call was made - 02:00 am or 04:00 am?  If ALE is working with  phone records and Simian’s contact is ALE, then this should not be a question, unless there were two phone calls made.  This has not been cleared up.

I can live without the 10:36 PM Simian post.  What’s more significant is that the Simian reports the call being made at 2:00 AM one time, and at 4:00 AM the other.  If his contact was ALE, it couldn’t have been a direct investigative source, because as you state, investigative ALE must have been working with phone records.  So either his source was peripheral or he fed from island talk too.

There was an Fox interview on August 2nd, where another confusion regarding the pick up time came up, being either 11:00 PM on the 29th or 4:00 PM on the 30th.  According to Greta, the day she showed up at the Van der Sloot’s with Beth, Paulus said 11:00 PM.  Allegedly, Paulus was detained to clear up the pick up time at McDonald’s, because Beth told ALE he had said 4:00 AM.  It has been stated, that he was released from prison because Greta and other witnesses confirmed that he said 11:00 PM, but I can’t ascertain anything and I don’t remember where I read that.

The link for the transcript of this interview is, for reference purposes: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164506,00.html


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3.   The third quote gives us an indication that ALE does believe the Kalpoes…again, if you believe Simian was in contact with someone close to the investigation …which I do.
Most of the times I also believe the Kalpoes.

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4.   In the last quote Simian contradicts what is said by the doppleganger Simian.  Was Joran on time or late for school the next day.  According to Paulus, he cannot remember for sure how Joran got to school that day.  According to the headmaster Joran was there.  According to Simian he was there, but he was late.  I don’t think the question of  Joran’s attendace or punctuality has been answered.
According to the post “E-Mail conversation between Reporter and School” by Bondia a teacher at the International School replied a questionnaire and stated that Joran was on the bus on Monday, May 30th.  I don’t know how credible the source is, but being on the bus would have been a good precautionary measure.


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Stom
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« Reply #317 on: August 23, 2007, 12:41:39 PM »

At times it seems Simian and Shango are responding to what each other posts. 

I haven’t found a process of reciprocity about these characters’ posts.  I just see Shango replying to the Simian or alluding to his comments.  It’s a one-way thing.  Just take the examples you have selected for the purpose of tracking the discussions relative to the partygoers alibi.

Before Simian mentioned the gamblers knew the girl, there was no mention by Shango about anybody knowing the girl.  But immediately after that, all the characters of the Shango comments know someone:  the shivas, the arawaks, the Babylonians know or still know the girl and the Tribe knows all the players and even the inner circles of the elders. 

The same thing happens with the Bifron comment by the Simian, which was made at 9:48 PM.  Shango posts the “46th spirit” at 9:51 PM and subsequently mentions the 46 sacrifices.

They weren’t talking to each other and the Simian clearly implies that they are not, when he expresses frustration as a consequence of Shango’s “harassment”, because Shango consistently kept a mocking tail on the Simian.


 
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*Ajax was the son of Telamon. He was a Trojan War hero on the side of the Greeks. When Achilles was killed, his armor was to be awarded to the next greatest Greek hero. Ajax thought it should go to him. Ajax went mad and tried to kill his comrades when the armor was awarded to Odysseus, instead. Athena intervened by making Ajax think cattle were his former allies. When Ajax realized he had slaughtered the herd, he committed suicide as his only honorable end.  On June 20th, SM posted a blurp about Joran being on suicide watch.   http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1164 

 
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**“lugubrious game” - Dali's stated desire "to systematize confusion and contribute to the total discrediting of the world of reality.  It is one of Dali's classic surreal images of sexual persecution and an obsession with castration and masturbation. It is also an image that plays off of psychic automatism and Freudian dream logic: displacement, condensation, and fetish. 
Well, I am glad that you clarified the Ajax and lugubrious game bits.  I would have thought no Ajax, meant no Lestoil, no Mr. Clean, no Spick & Span; and lugubrious game, as being a doleful behavior or pastime.

 
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If you believe Dirty Hand is Van Der Straten - which I do - Then it appears that Van Der Straten can break the alibi of the suspect who had a party.  If you believe Lorenzo had the party then you have to believe Loreanzo shares some degree of guilt.  imo

We have information from two sources and we have no confirmation that they are interrelated.  The Simian brings back the subject of the ravers and the need to pinch them.  In total separateness, Shango mentions that could brake the alibi.  Tying these two comments to mean that Van der Straten could break the alibi of the party and consequently, Lorenzo shares some guilt would be the equivalent of forcing a conclusion.
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Stom
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« Reply #318 on: August 23, 2007, 12:45:29 PM »

don’t know if there was a party that Joran and Natalee could bave gone to.  If I am not mistaken, there was a family gathering at Freddy’s and consequently he had an alibi.  Koen Gottenbos was in Florida. So at the risk of being overconfident with the available information, we can discard Freddy and the older Gottenbos boy as being hosts of an event that night.

Never happened.  He was said to be at a family reunion in Florida but it was not true.  Freddy was in Aruba.

"Koen Gottenbos was in Florida".
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #319 on: August 23, 2007, 01:42:43 PM »


1.   If you check the thread where the ‘Real Simian’ posts are you will not find the June 23rd, 2005 at 10:36 post.  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1194.0
That post confirms what Joran and Paulus said, but does it comfirm what really happened or what ALE believes?  If Simian’s contact is ALE, but Simian did not really post this (a doppleganger), then it is only significant in terms of analyzing what we know Paulus and Joran have said.  The other three quotes do appear on the list of quotes attributed to the real Simian.
If Joran was picked up before 22:33 or at 23:00 is inconsequential.  He had not run into Natalee for the final time, so what happened between 22:33 PM and the time of arrival at C&C does not affect the final outcome, which is the key issue.




[/quote]

It is only inconsequential if you are questioning when Joran and Natalee were together.  It is important to note that Paulus says he picked Joran up at 23:00 (11:00 pm).  Why would Paulus pick Joran up at 23.00 (11:00pm) if he was already home at 22:33 (10:33 pm) and reading his email?
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"Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking"..J.C. Watts
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