SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[Observer]

And before someone asks about Lorenzo...here is the Race Junkies link.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.0

I gotta ask about Lorenzo

OK, I've seen it posted/discussed numerous times:
he was questioned/Maxito Arendsz was questioned

Max co-signed his home-all-night alibi

I thought this happened on successive days:
either june 16/17 or june 17/18

this set of facts/sequence of events is burned into my brain

our team posted that Lorenzo's property underwent massive search ...
opposing team posted the same thing

but tonight I read thru that discovery docs link ...
didn't see Max Arendsz at all ...
saw Lorenzo's interro listed as june 28 ...
didn't see a search documented

so, am I one key lime krispy kreme short of a dozen?

or what?

any help would be much appreciated/TIA

SGC was questioned on 6/16/05,then LVR and then Max Arendsz and depending who you talk to it is conflicting if his property was ever searched. Some say it was just his mothers property,others say his house and boat were searched and some say his property was never searched at all. SGC was arrested on 6/17/05

According to Pietjezz and his brother on racejunkies who knew Lorenzo,he was questioned the first week Natalee went missing and I believe that to be true. It's confusing second hand info,but I think that tip about the Natalee's clothes came in that first week and he was questioned before JK2 were picked up on 6/9/05. IMO

[Lala'sMom]

Donuts?  No one told me? 

Steve Croes was arrested on or around the same time another person was arrested.  This other person was never identified as far as Mum and I can tell.  This would have occured the very day or shortly the next day AFTER Steve Croes was arrested.  Whoever that person was is the 5th SUSPECT.  Why can't we just try to figure out who it is and stop fighting over it?  If it turns out to be someone other than Freddy, Lorenzo, Paulus or whoever then that is good...we eliminate people and the field becomes narrower and we have less to think about.

There are posts all over the internet about Steve Croes arrest...he is called both the 4th and 5th.  If Steve Croes is the 5th suspect, then he did indeed waltz away.  This same theory can apply to Freddy, Lorenzo, GVC, Guido, Paulus, and maybe even a few others.  Simian was telling us what he/she was hearing about the case at the time...nothing more...nothing less.  Since I think Simian and Merian both had the same email addy, I think they were the same person...Merian clearly points to the "hand" in the photo as being invovled....that hand belongs to Freddy. 

[jackb]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.


http://www.ludeboyrecords.com/bands.html
The Dicemen aim for total world domination. But if that's aiming too high this irresistible trio will be satisfied by making a lot of shows by spilling blood, sweat, and tears. Their own special blend of psychobilly is influenced by punk rock, rock & roll, rockabilly, hardcore, and death metal. The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls with their dirty power rock'n roll. As long as it stinks like sweat, tastes like beer and innocent girls fall to their knees when hearing the straight from the heart music, these Dicemen will conquer!


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the cowboys!

Which leads me to a question I have asked before.  Where is the Maze?

I believe the maze can be entered from an underground cellar in one of the bars and from an entrance on the island where cars can actually drive into.
It is obscured from sight by foliage until right on it.  It has probably been in use for a few generations for one thing or another.  Perhaps on old gold mine, that has been altered in ways to accommodate partyers.  The path would not be paved and the walls would be of gold bricks.  The place could also be gone into from some house that is up against a hillside and leads into the cave ("rave".)   There are houses that fit this discriptions.  The island is made for solid caves to be formed.  Jack B

[MumInOhio]

Good Morning Lala's...Or was it a fake?...LOL...Here we go again...Pop goes the Weasel!

[jackb]

The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?

  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

[jackb]

AHHH!!!...But they told us that you could not lie as a suspect!!!!

PROCES VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony Burke, respectively inspector and sergeant first class, with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the section Often Occurring Crime District 2, state the following.

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was: Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT, born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court) and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.

Before the interview the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT was informed that he was under no obligation to answer.

The suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT has asked if his council Mr. A. SWAEN could be present at this interview and this was also requested by his council. This request was denied. His statement in dutch was transcribed by us, the reporting officers and goes as follows:

 

What was said is:  Suspects may lie and are expected to.  Witnesses may not.
j/b

[Lala'sMom]

The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?

  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

Where is the evidence that GVC was arrested in early 2005?  I am still trying to find that after you first mentioned it.  How would you know this?  I want to see it in writing so there will be no doubt as to who is the 5th. TIA

[jackb]

Simian on June 24th, 2005 6:12 pm

A whiskered rat will pause in repose, and then drink a cup of gravy.

This is a strange comment because it is not related at aal to any of the other posters remarks.
The only whiskered rat i can think of is this one from cinderella


" I am your fairy godmother and you shall go to the ball. But first you must go into the garden and pick a golden pumpkin, then bring me six mice from the mousetraps, a whiskered rat from the rat trap, and six lizards. You'll find the lizards behind the watering can. So Cinderella fetched a golden pumpkin, six grey mice, a whiskered rat, six lizards. The fairy godmother touched them with her wand and the pumpkin became a golden coach, the mice became six grey horses, the rat became a coachman with the most enormous moustache, and the lizards became six footmen dressed in green and yellow

just a thought

   

The only one I can think of is Simian going by seeing this and then trying to act like Shango.  Simian is not like Shango.  Simian is going to be the 47th because of misdirection.   j/b

[jackb]

The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?

  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

Where is the evidence that GVC was arrested in early 2005?  I am still trying to find that after you first mentioned it.  How would you know this?  I want to see it in writing so there will be no doubt as to who is the 5th. TIA

 

2005 has nothing to do with the arrests in the order they were made as some of the suspects were arrested a year later, including GcV and Guido one month apart.   jack/b

[jackb]

The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?

  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

Where is the evidence that GVC was arrested in early 2005?  I am still trying to find that after you first mentioned it.  How would you know this?  I want to see it in writing so there will be no doubt as to who is the 5th. TIA

 

2005 has nothing to do with the arrests in the order they were made as some of the suspects were arrested a year later, including GcV and Guido one month apart.   jack/b

 

CROMVOIRT, Geoffry van - 19 years old, resident of Aruba, who was detained by ALE on 4-15-2006 in an unannounced connection to the Natalee Holloway case. He is the son of the owner of an island security company that supplies equipment and personnel to beach patrol and hotels. For more information see Who’s Who - Victim, Suspects, Witnesses & Families.

Also it does not matter about wheather it is 2005 or 2006 as the arrests were coming, but put off, until they felt they had to act.  They knew who and when who would be arrested.   The wait was to throw everyone off and really fix alibis.  j/b

[jackb]

Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b

[Buckeye]

JE

Between St. John being Jan and Van der Straaten's denials and the whiskered rat as coachman, my interest is almost peeked again.

You are really good at this...interesting "different" insight.  hmmmmm

[Buckeye]

2005 has nothing to do with the arrests in the order they were made as some of the suspects were arrested a year later, including GcV and Guido one month apart.   jack/b

If they were suspects, early on, would they not have been detained?  Aren't Guido's statements listed as "witness" statements?

Guess it all depends on whether the poster was referring to "suspects" (formally) or just "suspicious" people.  I took the post in a more formal sense. Media called him "the fifth suspect". There were many people questioned but not too many named as suspects.

[Lala'sMom]

The person that was arrested/detained right after Steve Croes is your 5th suspect.  Whoever that was...Simian's hints are right in line with this...as so many have said, when reading in context it is easy to see...once again...I will say it...we only have to deteremine who that person was that was arrested the same day as Steve Croes to know who the 5th suspect was.  It was right before they took Paulus in...there were more rumors about another person that day than day on the FP.  Those in Aruba were hearing things that we did not know about at the time.

Also, yes there are many dirty hands in this mess.  I have come to believe that the dirty hand reference is about several persons that are in on the corruption and cover up and each and every time Shango mentions them he could easily be talking about a different person. 


Question for thought.....Who are the messengers?

  The person arrested after Steve Croes was Geoffrey Cromvroit, if not counting the black security guards.  If counting them, then it would be Joran.

Where is the evidence that GVC was arrested in early 2005?  I am still trying to find that after you first mentioned it.  How would you know this?  I want to see it in writing so there will be no doubt as to who is the 5th. TIA

 

2005 has nothing to do with the arrests in the order they were made as some of the suspects were arrested a year later, including GcV and Guido one month apart.   jack/b

Whoa!  How can Simian be talking about an arrest that had not happened already when Simian clearly states it had?  You have me totally lost...please explain in more detail. TIA

[MumInOhio]

JE

Between St. John being Jan and Van der Straaten's denials and the whiskered rat as coachman, my interest is almost peeked again.

You are really good at this...interesting "different" insight.  hmmmmm

I agree...JE does 'see' some interesting things...

[jackb]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.


http://www.ludeboyrecords.com/bands.html
The Dicemen aim for total world domination. But if that's aiming too high this irresistible trio will be satisfied by making a lot of shows by spilling blood, sweat, and tears. Their own special blend of psychobilly is influenced by punk rock, rock & roll, rockabilly, hardcore, and death metal. The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls with their dirty power rock'n roll. As long as it stinks like sweat, tastes like beer and innocent girls fall to their knees when hearing the straight from the heart music, these Dicemen will conquer!


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll
ask the men who play dice and “roll”

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered
The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
 

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions
but he has entered the maze
the lamb is a scapegoat
DirtyHand knows
So does the Elder
Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the cowboys!

Which leads me to a question I have asked before.  Where is the Maze?

It shows in the art exhibits of the Lions Club.  The whole story in different paintings.  The paintings have to be (resized not just enhanced)  and given the
right lighting and some even inversed.  It is very interesting.  There is one picture of a tree-like thing with PVs picture on the face of a scorpion-like incubus.  LOL  J    Have fun.  These paintings include Vds paintings as well as other artists.  There is a painting with what looks like a boot with a red truck inside it, but it is actually a road going into a cave, most likely that has a place to turn around.  The pictures were there.  Most likely some of them still are.  The houses with different block like features are actually individual pictures that can be somewhat brought into focus.  With better equipment they probably could be brought into good enough focus if someone knows what they are doing.   jackb

[MumInOhio]

Lala’s…do you remember anything about the Rainbow Warriors?…A Milton Ponson…is he the father of the of the 2 guys from the Racquet Club? An older woman tied in there as well. Could be the Mom.

Buckeye just posted about the Rainbow Warriors and I recognized the name. There was discussion early on in this thread before I started posting here. I will go back later and see if I can find the posts…just thought you may have a quick answer.(that darned Racquet Club again)...LOL

TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2258.0

 

It seems someone wrote very recently that Freddy's mom had some kind of directorhip at the recquet club.   j/b

It was me jackb...but it was SC Bubali and it was checked out the other night on the main thread and she is no longer listed on the list of businesses.

I have a post that said that she was listed as Dutch on an earlier list and wanted to verify it.

Now I am going with Dutch, as the poster read it and would have no reason to say otherwise when she posted a link with this info on it.

By the way...the Grandfather of Aruban tennis is Venezuelan, Humphrey Hose...who would have guessed!

[MumInOhio]

AHHH!!!...But they told us that you could not lie as a suspect!!!!

PROCES VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony Burke, respectively inspector and sergeant first class, with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the section Often Occurring Crime District 2, state the following.

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was: Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT, born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court) and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.

Before the interview the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT was informed that he was under no obligation to answer.

The suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT has asked if his council Mr. A. SWAEN could be present at this interview and this was also requested by his council. This request was denied. His statement in dutch was transcribed by us, the reporting officers and goes as follows:

 

What was said is:  Suspects may lie and are expected to.  Witnesses may not.
j/b

OK...Lets try it this way...LOL...as a witness...and still a Judge or so he said...oh my I hear COLUMBO on his way in...LOL

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/pvds618.htm

PROCES-VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony BURKE, respectively inspector and sergeant first class with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the Section Often Occurring Crimes, state the following.

On June 18th 2005 at approximately 18.30 hours, we interviewed as a witness the man who when asked for his name and details, stated to be, Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, occupation judge (Joint Court) and living at ADDRESS REMOVED in Aruba for further information.

Before his statement would be taken the witness was informed of his right to refuse giving any statement due to the relationship with the suspect.

The statement that he made was made in Dutch and goes as follows.

[nuntukamen]

rumors afloat that joran has been rearrested in the netherlands

[Lala'sMom]

Jackb and JE...Caps was allowed to post all his theories about Shango and Simian, perhaps the two of you would do the same.  It helps me to follow all theories.  Thanks.