SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #1

[vms]

@ Blonde


Sometimes it's hard to understand him because he lived upside down in
Antarctica Underground Bunka ,and penquin's pick at his brain.


What's with this comment??? Joke or truth?

A little of both he might not be getting pecked on by the penquin's, but he always said he lived upside down.

VMS I just sent a  email.

Thanks, Blonde. Maybe right-side-up would help. 

[SS]

I have pulled some tidbits of converstaions with Finbar.

This one was on 3/14 and once again he is pointing a finger at a Cores.

There was a meeting on june 28th between Croes, Donner(dutch justice minister) and Pechtold(dutch minister of kingdom relations) in curacao. During this meeting croes asked the dutch ministers for assistance in rectifying the aruban image that was painted in the US media. The bad image was harming arubas tourist industry. (wampum)

jackb,

Do you have a link for this source?

Interesting. A Croes that was at the meeting. Still reaching to tie in SGC into the mix. Croes is as common as a Yoruba priest down there, but one has to be related. With small island inter relations - most likely, more than one.

So, one suspect names SGC and he was arrested. I read somewhere else that SGC mentions he was arrested because he over heard something stated by one of the suspects.

I think the island's close familial relationships are the nut that will not likely be cracked.

Fin


3/13/08
There is more that one dirty hand.

CAPS mentioned this. The different spellings of DH/dh seems to indicate this also.

His Lordship is not Oduber. He is the Prime Minister. He is there to preserve Aruba.

His Excellency Governor Refunjol is there to preserve Holland. He is the Head of State. No one higher unless we want to drag the Queen into it.

If we go Rasta - Babylon is the oppression of the Dutch laws, legal system, police, etc.. It is a foreign government forced upon the Arawak peoples from ages ago.

His Lordship Refunjol is there to preserve Babylon.

CAPS, do you own cats?

Fin

3/12/08
Something else odd. All these posters stating that a body thrown in the ocean would either wash back upon the shores or S.A..

Max never washed up.

Fin

3/11/08
Is Finbar aka AG aka Simian???
ag & simian were the two I remember posting about insurance scams.

Fin

3/09/08
17   Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 -  on: March 09, 2008, 07:05:07 PM 
Venezuela Nabs Suspected Colombian Cocaine Kingpin

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN09398680


Maybe PVDS was a mob/cartel lawyer and got caught skimming money.

No casino will allow anyone to gamble beyond the means to pay the debt. Unless an equal amount is in a bank account.

South FLA is the drug capitol of the U.S.. Maybe that is the reason for the trip. Bidness. Drug bidness.

Was this the guy from Aruba that was in FLA and then fled? H. Gonzales?

Fin  

3/09/08
Quote from: Lala'sMom on March 09, 2008, 08:41:42 AM
Quote from: Finbar on March 09, 2008, 04:42:14 AM

How does ag have the "power of the ping"?


Only Mods and Admin can see other posters IP address.  I don't think I ever saw my own IP on the FP. 

Yes, mistake on me part. Riddle was only posted on the FP.

Me thinks Mom answered Fin's rhetorical question.

Fin

3/9/08
CAPS,

Yes. This has been my contention for several years now. There are others that will verify that I came up with this idea several years ago. I even sent this info to Dave at that same time I figured this out.

The map link posted earlier in the thread is the same one from Buki Di Telefoon Aruba 2005 showing the Wi-Fi HotSpots.

2K would have to be aware of Wi-Fi. What - own an Internet Cafe and not have that option for customers? They prolly even sold the pre-paid cards for Wi-Fi at their Cafe.

Wi-Fi is often called "the hippie network." One could string a series of Wi-Fi HotSpots, covering a local area, and peeps could receive internet access for free.

It is a broadcast signal through the air waves. So, it could be hacked by someone with that skill. If one has their own personal Wi-Fi router, one can make it accessible only with a password. Got iPod Touch?

The other aspect is that is that Wi-Fi can be accessed via cell phone, pda's, computer, laptop, etc..

Me thinks the range is limited.

This is the aspect that most likely hindered the investigation. The suspects used Wi-Fi to make it appear that they were at a location, where they were not really located there.

Example: Use cell phone to call from the (insert any location here) and access home computer. Logon and send your friend a text message  email. When computer records and emails are investigated - it will make it appear that the person is at home, when they are not. Maybe this is what ALE meant by computer timeclock tampering.

I believe that some ALE on Aruba honestly tries to investigate, but the conflicting information(alibi/lies of Wi-Fi) proved to support the suspects. Then the coverup began.

Wi-Fi - It's the next best thing to being there....

Fin

3/9/08
I have used paintball markers and I do not believe it is possible to kill a dog with one - even point blank. Maybe torture one with it though. Most serial killers torture and kill animals as "practice" for their later deeds.

I have in me notes that clevfan spoke to the grandmother of SGC on Curacao.

SGC's friend is GVC.

GVC played soccer with JVDS.

I cannot decipher the numerous connections with words. I drew a picture. Take a piece of paper and place "Polis" at the center. Then add all the names in the case and arrows pointing to connections.

It is startling.

Round and round it goes.

Fin

3/9/08
So.

How does ag know Shango?

She is on Aruba and Shango is supposedly in FLA.

Shango would have to be from or lived on Aruba at one point in time.

How does ag have the "power of the ping"?

I would think that it would be extremely, extremely difficult for a poster to have the power to trace someone through an internet BB. A super hacker - maybe.

How can this be?

If one notices at the bottom right of each post, it states "Logged".
Click it and a window pops up -
"Your IP address is shown only to you and moderators. remember that this information is not identifying, and that most IPs change periodically.

You cannot see other member's IP addresses, and they cannot see yours."

So.

Did someone ever supply ag with the IP addy or location of Shango?

Shango knew when the Dopple was there because they had a common friend. Either a phone call, email or IM was sent when the mother came home. The mother was the Dopple. I do not believe that anyone was posting as a Dopple unless it was the mother. I believe that it was meant that the mother had simply arrived home.

So, how so, how the power of the ping?

I once knew a penguin that could ping.

Fin

3/07/08
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm

DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon

So, he is not Dutch & not Aruban. What nationality is he?

Literally one would think it means someone that is not from NL or Aruba.

Yet, child of Babylon infers - not a young person of Dutch decent. Could mean an older person that is Dutch.

Not Arawak meaning - not descended from the original islanders. Could be borne there, but I think locals mean one has to have been there for several generations to be considered Aruban(Arawak).

Could also be an elder person of Dutch and Aruban parents that are not considered Arawak.

Could be someone that was borne there and not of Dutch or Aruban heritage.

Could be someone that settled there from another country than NL or Aruba.

If we assume that Shango was trying to help and if what he stated is true, then we must find someone that fits one of these criteria of birth and origin.

I think these are things that only the locals may know.

Fin

3/08/08
So, why do the shoes appear to be orange?

Then I remembered my time spent on a clay tennis court. Leaves the shoes with clay dust.

I used Google Earth but could not find a clay court at the RC. But around the green ones there is a rectangular ring of - clay.

Odd. I have never seen a court surrounded by clay before.

That would explain why the tennis shoes look like boots. The clay colour.

Fin

03/05/08
Peaches,

Kinda, sorta, not really. That is Finbar for I have to go to work to feed the credit cards before Visa sends a hit man looking for me.

But a poo poo platter sounds kinda interesting.

Fin

3/05/08
Finbar is referring to a photograph of Steve Croes.

Is the second pic cropped? I would love to see more of the left part if it is.

Notice they both have that same deformed looking ear curl going inwards toward the ear canal - proper.

That is an inherited trait.

Maybe papa Crow has it too.

Follow the ear lobes....

Fin

P.S. Hey Faith

3/04/08
Yes. Misdirection away from the landfill.

How many of Aruba's investigators were at the dump helping Dave dig?

Didn't they make him get permits or something?

Covered up the holes that they had dug.

Maybe the witness did not see them burying a body, but digging it back up to be moved. I think CAPS posted that. Insightful.

The ocean makes sense, being on finite island land, but if willing conspirators kept moving and reburying the body - makes it difficult to find.

Dompig gave many conflicting opinions on the case. Related to Kalpoe?

Fin

3/04/04
Reference to the father of Steve Croes
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.

3/04/08
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.

03/04/08
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.

03/03/08
Finbar's response to a list of judges in Curcao and Aruba
I dunno. Maybe a dead end.

It is just odd to me that the judges in this case come from Curacao. Maybe it is the norm. SGC's father there. Supposed to be a ranking official. I read a member of the judiciary. Maybe that info was not correct. I am just trying to tie it together, if it goes together.

There is a pic of SGC & JVDS. Claims to not know them. Provides an alibi that was a lie.

Besides the obvious, it is odd that all of these surrounding people committed crimes of obstruction and perjury and none are prosecuted for it. Maybe this angle should be pushed for Aruba's officials to explain.


More later

[JE]

Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.

Simian was supposed to be in aruba his greatest feat was to report the arrest of PVDS before it was on the news.
Now if he or she was close to the police station that dont surprise me. The news people have to report, edit, then broadcast so yes they will be later. Shango nor Simian as far as i know never posted the "scoop" or information the networks did not have

correct me if i am wrong

[finngirl]

Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.

Simian was supposed to be in aruba his greatest feat was to report the arrest of PVDS before it was on the news.
Now if he or she was close to the police station that dont surprise me. The news people have to report, edit, then broadcast so yes they will be later. Shango nor Simian as far as i know never posted the "scoop" or information the networks did not have

correct me if i am wrong

sim posted re the JvdS/K2 polis van convo
long before the transcript of the recording was released

the dates matched perfectly

[JE]

@ Blonde


Sometimes it's hard to understand him because he lived upside down in
Antarctica Underground Bunka ,and penquin's pick at his brain.


What's with this comment??? Joke or truth?

A little of both he might not be getting pecked on by the penquin's, but he always said he lived upside down.

VMS I just sent a  email.

LOL blonde not the penguin part but him/her being upside down as in on the other side of the equator?

[JE]

Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.

Simian was supposed to be in aruba his greatest feat was to report the arrest of PVDS before it was on the news.
Now if he or she was close to the police station that dont surprise me. The news people have to report, edit, then broadcast so yes they will be later. Shango nor Simian as far as i know never posted the "scoop" or information the networks did not have

correct me if i am wrong

sim posted re the JvdS/K2 polis van convo
long before the transcript of the recording was released

the dates matched perfectly

When did he post that? i don't mind being wrong LOL

[finngirl]

Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.

Simian was supposed to be in aruba his greatest feat was to report the arrest of PVDS before it was on the news.
Now if he or she was close to the police station that dont surprise me. The news people have to report, edit, then broadcast so yes they will be later. Shango nor Simian as far as i know never posted the "scoop" or information the networks did not have

correct me if i am wrong

sim posted re the JvdS/K2 polis van convo
long before the transcript of the recording was released

the dates matched perfectly

When did he post that? i don't mind being wrong LOL
we all take turns being wrong, LOL

forgot to add that transcript was released nearly a year later

simian says: June 24, 2005 at 5:55 PM
The confrontation is going down. “You made me lie.” “You conspired against me.” “Coward.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0
This is a transcript from a translation done by an internet poster called Arubagirl. It has been fomatted for easier reading. This conversation was recorded without the knowlege of the participants as they all three sat in the back seat of a police car on June 24th. [2005]

Editorial: Natalee’s case and the Aruban people
DIARIO Aruba
4/21/2006
Yesterday, we published the transcript of a conversation that police recorded in a police car that was bringing the three suspects (Joran, Deepak and Satish) from KIA to the Court Building, in Dutch and in Papiamento. The document is very revealing of three suspects’ character, their way of speaking, their way of formulating sentences and their violence.

[JE]

Simian reported slightly ahead of the news cycle:

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.

Simian was supposed to be in aruba his greatest feat was to report the arrest of PVDS before it was on the news.
Now if he or she was close to the police station that dont surprise me. The news people have to report, edit, then broadcast so yes they will be later. Shango nor Simian as far as i know never posted the "scoop" or information the networks did not have

correct me if i am wrong

sim posted re the JvdS/K2 polis van convo
long before the transcript of the recording was released

the dates matched perfectly

When did he post that? i don't mind being wrong LOL
we all take turns being wrong, LOL

forgot to add that transcript was released nearly a year later

simian says: June 24, 2005 at 5:55 PM
The confrontation is going down. “You made me lie.” “You conspired against me.” “Coward.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.0
This is a transcript from a translation done by an internet poster called Arubagirl. It has been fomatted for easier reading. This conversation was recorded without the knowlege of the participants as they all three sat in the back seat of a police car on June 24th. [2005]

Editorial: Natalee’s case and the Aruban people
DIARIO Aruba
4/21/2006
Yesterday, we published the transcript of a conversation that police recorded in a police car that was bringing the three suspects (Joran, Deepak and Satish) from KIA to the Court Building, in Dutch and in Papiamento. The document is very revealing of three suspects’ character, their way of speaking, their way of formulating sentences and their violence.

i know about that one. The words "you made me lie" "coward" "you conspired against me" are not in that transcript

[Lala'sMom]

Just some posts from RWV concerning GVC...Not saying they are reliable just letting putting it out there for thought. Grain of salt.


So, the story is GVC was at the casino with Natalee before she went to C&C's? Well, that seems kind of irrelevant unless he was at C&C or back at the hotel seen with Natalee?

While if true that he was 'with' Natalee that night it certainly means he needs to provide his whereabouts from 1:30 onward, but how could him being at the casino with her earlier in the night exonerate the 3 suspects?

What I understood the new 'line' to be was that 'witnesses' saw him with Natalee at the Holiday Inn after Joran allegedly left her on the beach, but maybe I misinterpreted it.

Posted by: xxx | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 01:02 PM
It says the casino in the article, that is why I put it at earlier in the evening. While maybe irrelevant, the fact that he knew her or talked to her may tie in with something else or other evidence. That Post article also says there is a video in a jewelry store of NH arguing with a light haired man the day of her disappearance and that they are trying to determine if he is the guy in that picture. It also says the shirt found has forensic evidence on it. Maybe all put together is why arrested. This is all according to their "source". It also says Joe T. thinks this is a significant arrest (not just the same old, same old).

Posted by: chloe | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 01:08 PM





Yep, GVS held 8 more days on suspicion of drug trafficking and criminal wrongdoing leading to the disappearence of Natalee Holloway

Posted by: meso | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 03:01 PM


What does that mean as far as criminal wrong doing? Help me out here, could it be selling or giving drugs that resulted in an OD?

Posted by: IMHERE | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 03:07 PM





Really is amazing.

The prosecuter has never mentioned this GVC guy since the beginning
Vander Straaten, never mentioned this guy while he let the original 3 boys run free for ten days after hanging it on the black security guys
DomPig, Nada, nothing about this guy, He could say Natalee died by drugs, but never a word about the bleach blong kid.
Deepack, Nope not a word
Satish, or his lawyer, NYET!
Joran, who was on every network in March, - Not a word about the kid.
PVS, or Anita, - sorry NO again.
Marianne Croes - attourneyl - NOPE
All the witness at the Fishermans hut? NOPE, never mentioned the BLOND haired kid.
Fat Kat Editor of ARUBA today? Nope again.
Geraldo, Greta, Dutch Marines, Shieks, Mickey John, anyone anywhere?? NO< NO NO!

All of sudden, this KIDS arrested for possible DRUG connection and disppearance for NH! I would be checking to see if he was termnial or something. ARUBA wants this to go away before the tourism season gets underway, so lets round up someone, charge them and wrap this up nice an tidy....... Fade to commerical.......announcer says "Come to Aruba, we LOVE YOU BACK! (Sometimes you don't make it back)" Native islander then smiles and shrugs shoulders... fade to black......

I can see the FBI now smacking their collective heads....."damn it was the blond haired kid, near the huts with the sunglasses....damn it all..."

Posted by: Skyboxx | Tuesday, April 18, 2006 at 04:02 PM

[Lala'sMom]

Would someone please explain to me why AG would say her own relative is involved in Natalee's disappearance? Why would anyone in their right mind go on all the blogs and forums and tell this about their own relative? She never told me that she thought this...she always said she thought Joran was guilty of her disappearance and whatever happened to her beforehand.  I have talked to her several times as have many of the monkeys.  We don't just talk on SM all the time.  Until someone proves to me she is Simian and proves it without any doubt I am reserving judgment.  I know all about the insurance company, the cousin in ALE, and all the other stuff...the trip to KIA and so forth.  I have looked at it endlessly and questioned her and others about it.  I still have nothing to base that on.  When I did learn of the IP and email addy info concerning Simian and Shango I realized that for AG to be Simian she would have to be sitting at a computer in a certain location each time she posted in order for the IP to remain the same.  I don't think she was at this place...but I do think someone in ALE was.  I think Finbar already knows this and I also think he can't prove to me that AG was Simian.  If he can then I will apologize and bow to his knowledge.  I just want answers and less guess work...but I am in the Shango thread and as I have said all theories are welcome.

[SS]

More Finbar Information...

03/03/08
Anyone know the name of SGC's father?

Tick tock, the hammer & the block.

03/03/08
First of all, I think if you spent some time reading and thinking about what CAPS had been posting here, you would not post this.

CAPS has provided some interesting deep background on Aruba. Maybe you should try and read some of it before you are so quick to dismiss.

It really worries me that some here see this an arm chair detective novel with no consequences. If what is true about the drug trafficking, and I believe it to be, then CAPS is placing great risk by seeking and speaking about these matters.

I think we should not press CAPS to be injected into this situation too deeply. I do not think it is worth one more human life. I think some of the other deaths there are drug related. Maybe even NH related.

This troubles me deeply.

03/02/08
Me thinks that Nat's case was and is being hindered because of the publicity is this respect:

Aruba is used for laundering drug money
Aruba is used to aid in drug trafficking
Aruba has cartels and maybe some type of mafia
Aruba has government officials that most likely are involved in all of the above.

They would not want ANY TYPE OF NEWS MEDIA shinning a light on what really happens there.

Maybe the cage is one of those little skeletons(pun intended) in their closet.

Maybe the underwater "post office" is a method of dumping cocaine shipments into the ocean, to be recovered by others.

I saw a documentary where drug traffickers dropped bails of drugs that were recovered by speed boats. Maybe this has evolved to where the bails are dumped from a plane or a boat, and sinks. Then divers or fishermen recover them. Maybe the 90 ft one was an error(wrong dump site etc). There appear to be no drugs, and DNA of someone was recovered.

How could Aruba be used for drug trafficking and money laundering if the Aruban government was not involved? They have to know.

DNA was recovered - but who does it belong to? Someone was found.

03/02/08
So all we really know:

1. JVDS is a bisexual
2. JVDS Bogarts spliffs
3. JVDS is setting up for an insanity defense.

03/02/08
This once again goes back to the Solagnier/Harms/Mansur drug and cigarette smuggling case.
The plane is not AF2. At least not the updated one.

When GHWB was President, there was a documentary about AF1 & AF2. They were completely new planes. Extensive show about the planes.

Look at the front end nose section. On top of the more modern AF1 & 2 there is a distinctive bulge on the top.

The plane posted here that is on Aruba does not have this bulge.

It could be Congressmen on a "fact-finding" junket - spending all those tax dollar$. You know, the ones where they take 120 of their "aides" on a trip.

Could be any of the alphabet groups that are there.

It is interesting about the"post office". An underwater one at that.....

Does the name - Harms ring any bells? It should.

02/29/08
CAPS,

Driver - a bastard of Dauree?

Smoke is More.

White pickup at Dauree's? Or the other place? With the paved driveway?

03/29/08
Finbar joined SM the same time as FinnGirl.
Thanks. I have been on this journey for a long time too. Just on another beach.

Yes, we were siamese triplets - surgically removed. The third ran away with the circus. No act without the other two.

02/29/08
He is concerned about fake Simian posts.
Mom,

Care to post all the fake simian posts?

02/29/08
CAPS,

Thanks. That was what I meant to say before. I made a mistake posting "road". I meant driveway.

One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the driveway is now paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA.


CAPS, thanks for what you are doing.

Take your time and go slow.

Don't ask the WRONG questions there(don't put yourself at risk).

2/28/08
Van Der Sloot phone number?
587-2711

Ask for Dauree.

02/28/08
CLW,

Would that rhyme have to be changed now?

One straight path
to the house of Rave
while of gold bricks
the road is now paved
a white truck
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

02/27/08
I am not stereotyping. I just let the chips fall where they may.

The textual clues lead me to be certain that sim was female.

sim threatened Shango with, "get you eight days in the hole with stale bread for you, you fool"(WTTE). ALE connection. A male would not use these methods of insults or threats.

I first thought sim could be female or a gay person. But, the evidence points to female.

They were conveying info. That is why it is important to who they were. To figure out their motives. Help? Mislead?

I do not have a clear gender for Shango. I am open to ideas. I always thought that the obvious pick was Eduardo Matthew. But I could not find the early clues to the ID for multiple reasons.

I do believe Shango spoke with authority from a point of trying to help by giving some deep background to the island life.

Why Shango chose to do it the way done - could be many reasons. Think about it, their life could be in danger by trying to help if what is really happening down there - drugs, cartel etc..

Me thinks Shango knew some things.

Only a few know everything.

Thanks Shango.

I must go feed the credit cards.

02/26/08
Finbar is talking about Aruban divers on Persistence.
The next day...."

When I heard this, my heart dropped.

If what is in the picture is what Tim was talking about, I do not see how he was 99% sure.

It is on the outside of the trap.

Is this the picture from the first time it was mentioned in the show? Or later?

Plastic. Plastic, not diamonds, lasts forever. But the bonds between plastic are fragile. Think kiddie pool. One or two years in direct sunlight and it gets brittle and crumbles. UV light breaks down the plastic bonds, But, the plastic molecules lasts forever. Not certain about polyester.

Not a complete waste of 30K for an edumakshun.

Sending evidence to FBI is like voting. It does not matter how many votes are cast for which candidate, it matters who counts the votes. It matters which evidence was sent to FBI.

In this case, ALE is on board the boat. They dove the next day. Worrying.

Maybe I am a, "glasses half empty" typa person.

02/25/08
I am rereading World Journier.

"GVC [Suspect Gottfried van Cromvoirt] was bothering Natalee on Friday night at Carlos N Charlies. She was dancing with another classmate and this guy (GVC) came up behind her and started humping and grinding on her back and groping her body. She turned around and yelled at him to leave her alone so he left."

So, GVC figures into this on several different levels:
1. Security cameras
2. Was involved with official search for Natalee
3. Made an unwelcome advance on Natalee and he was rejected
4. Became a suspect in her disappearance

This guy needs further attention.

02/25/08
Do you have a map that shows Moko on it? Maybe Blonde has it.

I think it was a little square map.

The Shango/simian riddle mention the three names: Moko, Montanja & Nood.

The lawyer Carlo with PVDS - is that not one of the lawyers for one of the suspects? Antonio?

So, who posted this info? Is it Dr. Phil or someone else?

Interesting that the early statements from the perps is missing.

Lots of phones and PDAs to make many different permutations of who exactly had which phone. Maybe some phne swapping going on.

02/23/08
Can anyone tell me what is the time that the phone call from Nat on Aruba was made? Were there two calls?

"I don't even know these people."

Why would Nat not know J2K? The drugs? I do not think so.

She was somewhere that she was left. By JVDS. Maybe a rave. JVDS gets his ass kicked. Leaves Nat there.

What about the monkey noises that BHT heard? That was next door to PVDS. BHT thought that it meant that Nat was at the Daury compound.

Maybe she was not. Maybe she was at the house WITH the monkeys. Next door. Party. Old man's party. Sons drug female tourists.

"Your own father." - DK

It is quiet as Aruba in here right now.

What was that sound? Another tourist NOT going to Aruba.

02/23/08
Siren

I think that is it.

JVDS calls Daury at 2:00AM.

Daury stops at ATM to purchase Wi-Fi prepaid card.

Wait a minute...prepaid WiFi card can be paid with a credit card. It states this in the Setar ad.

Would a Setar charge be drawn from his ATM automatically or whatever method is used there? Hmmm.

I would love to see the amount of Florins withdrawn....

So, what happened in the next two hours until 4 in the A of M?

Maybe Daury used his cell phone to logon to his home computer and searched for alcohol drug combinations to try and figure out what to do with Nat.

How far can one travel in two hours on Aruba?

How far in a boat?

Including time to go get boat, launch it, and be back before the sun rises on rats?

Maybe the boat ride was the next night, you know, when JVDS made certain that he "was on a casino video".

Who drove the boat then?

In the last sting video, JVDS mentions to Patrick that, "...you have to give them money. They are poor". (WTTE)

Who of JVDS's friends is poor?

Hey JVDS, FU!

02/23/08
A lot of technical information about the WiFi and mobile phones.

02/23/08
Peaches,

Where do you see that they have FOUR cell phones?

Interesting.

Who owns the fourth phone? PVDS? The phone just recently found?

Maybe...they used PVDS's phone.

Maybe...PVDS...was there.

02/23/08
Klaas,

TY.

I did not get this from these documents. I figured this out several years ago. At another place.


I just read stuff and sometimes the light bulb...lights. Sometimes it does not. Sometimes it worries about penguins.


Yes, cell phone to text message home computer. How can three little piggys be two, two places at once? Breaks the laws of QED it does! (It was really three places at once) Houdini could not get out of that one!

02/22/08
Re: chatting a lot to make it seem believable.

I think the use of WiFi by J2K should be seriously factored into the timeline.

2K HAD to know of WiFi through their Internet Cafe. I think their Cafe is a WiFi hotspot. Buki de Telefoon Aruba lists them.

One can use WiFi via a cell phone to call one's home computer. They could send text messages to the home computer via cell phone. That would make it appear that 2K were at home when they were not.

The gardener saw J2K when they were supposed to be home. How can this be? ALE discounted the gardener's statement due to the chats that occurred "at home".

I think ALE are either ignorant or this collision of facts left them with an open door to let J2K free, by turning a blind eye.

It is also interesting that 2K manipulated their computer's clock.

02/22/08
Klaas,

I never mentioned IP's and email addys first. lol.

I would not stake me life on anything in this twisted puzzle. I would place the probability in the 90% range though. With the dopple being the mother.

If not her, then it would have to be M.C..

I would like to hear your thoughts on who it is. You may email me if you do not wish to post it.

Simian is a female though.

All Me Best,
Fin

02/21/08
In response to MsVada who seemed to recognize Finbar from the past.
Ms,

I prefer your old avatar. Not all birdies fly. lol.

Whaddya think about PVSD's witness statement that he asked the night manager which cameras were working? He was told only the one behind the check in desk. I think this is the alibi/lie that J2K used later on. They got that lie form PVDS. Not sure how that lie fell apart(J2K changed stories, 2 security guards, etc).

02/21/08
JE: I placed "she" in bold type because everyone(here and elsewhere kept repeating "he").

Even Simian referred to itself as "he".

"...have even taken girls there myself." Area where people park on dates. Could mean that the person just drove there with girlfriends(maybe to take photos to put on a blog). Does not mean the person is a male.

"...all this playing with emotions...." A male would never say this.

Simian knew someone in ALE that fed "it" information. AG has a cousin that is ALE.

The list goes on and on....


Bleach: Right back at cha. I am also concerned for the welfare of all penguins. I see some other names that I recognize from somewhere else.

Klaas: So, one person with two IP's and two email addys has to be two people?

Besides, from what I was told by those that explicitly understand Internet Protocol, that using it as a means to trace someone is useless for several reasons that you should already know.

I do agree that this avenue needs no further exploration.

We should focus on the boycott, corruption and coverup.

02/21/08
Klass,

I respect your work here. I have worked elsewhere, for countless hours, for a resolution to this nightmare.

I am not sure what methods you have to discern your line of thought, but I think if one looks at the posts between the two posters, that there are numerous links between them. Too many to ignore.

But, this is all trivia now.

I do not wish to derail the current line of investigation. The coverup and corruption need to be followed to their ends. The pressure must be focused on this and the continuing boycott.

We still have much work to be done to bring Nat home.

02/21/08
BleachedBlack asks Finbar if they have met.

Only online.

Yes, I am the one that has Buki di Telefoon Aruba 2005.

Yes, I live upside down. lol.

02/21/08
Why not just ask arubagirl who Simian is. I certain that she could fill in the blanks.


Fin

[texasmom]

Thanks Blonde for the insight on Finbar! As for your comment "Finbar doesn't let things go he will keep looking not stop."  I can understand that and respect that; I tend to be that way myself, as I sense many others here are.  His posts probably don't seem as cryptic to those that are more "in the know" than I.  I'll admit I was very frustrated after following the geneology lead and getting nowhere,lol.
I hope he'll continue to help us find the answers to all of this!  As to Steve's father, I "followed the music" all day yesterday and into this morning.  Never found PVDS playing with any of the people I looked at.  And there are many, many, Croes; of which many, many are musicians.  My luck his mother's name is Croes and he didn't take his father's name, lol.  Oh well.

[finngirl]

Steve Croes is the 4th person arrested...well if you don't count the SG, which had been released by the time Simian was speaking of them. 

but what about the un-named person
who was detained/released the previous night?

detain/arrest: synonyms which share common definition

you say po ta to, I say po tah to ...
they fry up the same

someone detained musta earned suspect status

Finngirl…but what about the one from the 11th. that didn’t happen? It was reported on and posted about on more than one board!
can you point me in direction of reading material?
checked on SM FP but there are about 3000 posts, give/take
for the time period around june 11th

TIA 

Also according to the Kalpoe car tape of 6/22, Freddy was why they were arrested. Only way for that to happen was if Freddy spoke to ALE prior to 6/9, which we have no record of.

All of this would of course change who is #5…..

SM FP posters said LvR questioning/searches (including mother's home)
occurred on june 16, date of mystery person's detainment/release

said it was in aruban newspapers/on local tv news reports

SM was all dialed in w/ arubanos at that time ...
can't see that Red/Tom would update FP w/ bunk

so AFAIK their june 17 update is valid info

[finngirl]

i know about that one. The words "you made me lie" "coward" "you conspired against me" are not in that transcript

gosh, you're right, it's not word for word ...
what was I thinking?

I took sim's post to mean that on June 24
there was an argument/people were turning on each other

guess I read too much into it cuz the dates match ...
thanks for clearing that up

[SS]

SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.

How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   

[vms]

Would someone please explain to me why AG would say her own relative is involved in Natalee's disappearance? Why would anyone in their right mind go on all the blogs and forums and tell this about their own relative? She never told me that she thought this...she always said she thought Joran was guilty of her disappearance and whatever happened to her beforehand.  I have talked to her several times as have many of the monkeys.  We don't just talk on SM all the time.  Until someone proves to me she is Simian and proves it without any doubt I am reserving judgment.  I know all about the insurance company, the cousin in ALE, and all the other stuff...the trip to KIA and so forth.  I have looked at it endlessly and questioned her and others about it.  I still have nothing to base that on.  When I did learn of the IP and email addy info concerning Simian and Shango I realized that for AG to be Simian she would have to be sitting at a computer in a certain location each time she posted in order for the IP to remain the same.  I don't think she was at this place...but I do think someone in ALE was.  I think Finbar already knows this and I also think he can't prove to me that AG was Simian.  If he can then I will apologize and bow to his knowledge.  I just want answers and less guess work...but I am in the Shango thread and as I have said all theories are welcome.

I agree. It just doesn't add up, IMO.

I will gladly change my mind if proof is presented but I will not decipher more code language to get there.   

[texasmom]

SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.

How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   

It is on the site that Finbar directed us to, if you look at the bottom of each page where the numbers of the pages are, click on what says "first page". 

[texasmom]

SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.

How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   

I realized what you meant the minute I posted the last response, lol.  Many monkeys knew ag's name from personal contact with her.  I didn't know her name either.

[vms]

SS,

Finbar was on other forums, way back when, IIRC.

Also, the family history page is the work of the ex-monkey, arubagirl.

If any of that helps.

How do you know that the family history page was the work of ex-monkey, aruba girl?  The pages that I found through my research were from an old genealogy source and the newer information came from a researcher named {{edit}}.  Who is {{edit}}?  I did not get her name from the site that Finbar directed us to.   

I realized what you meant the minute I posted the last response, lol.  Many monkeys knew ag's name from personal contact with her.  I didn't know her name either.

Exactly.

[finngirl]

not necessarily directing this thought toward AG/SGC situation,
but toward sim/shango motives/agenda in general

many/many posters have said:

if my kid were involved in something terrible like this
I would still love them but would expect them
to face consequences of their actions ...
would drag them to nearest cop shop myself if I had to

if posting clues could lead to a relative's arrest/conviction
but it needed to be done/was the right thing to do

some might feel that alias was only way to accomplish this

perhaps courage was lost
when situation/resolution seemed hopeless
or fear became too great

w/ much at stake/much to lose,
not yet convinced that asking someone: are you sim/shango? ...
would result in an honest reply