Lively Case Discussion #673 8/3 - 8/5/2007

[KarmaRoundUp]

 That's what I meant, even in her stat she was trying to get help.  When a person is drugged, of course a cry for help would come out in a strange way.  She could even have yelled Woo Hoo...to yell, get their attention....in her condition that may have been the only possible way

I think if Natalee would have been able to yell out anything it would have been the universal HELP.

Not necessarily, I believe that when people are drugged, they slur their words, have  trouble speaking, thinking...HELP may not have been something Natalee could verbalize in her condition.
  
  Also interesting Dash could not SEE her in the car.  If she opened the window to call for help, she should have been seen, Joran must have pulled her away.

IMO if Natalee had been able to scream anything at all...she would have just screamed her heart out instead of screaming wooo hooo aruba.
I really don't think she screamed anything,I think this is just a lie told by Deepak to try and cover himself,so he could tell the world"Oh,look,I gave Natalee a chance to get out of the car,after that MB guy told her to get out but she WANTED to stay in my car"So in other words....that's like Joran lying about Natalee being falling down drunk,no she wasn't,yes she was.....they both are trying to get people to believe that Natalee gave her consent,that Natalee wanted them to take her away in the Kalpoe taxi,that Natalee wanted sex with Joran.I don't believe any of that.

[Rammstein]

   They found Natalee, don't you all remember?  June of 2005.  There was an announcement,and confirmation...we saw Beth's crumpling body as she got the most tragic news of her life!!!!   But then, came the retraction!  What happened???? The body was not "presentable".....too much DNA.  It was "disappeared!!!!

I believe a lot of things but not this rumor. The wrong department/people told this. Remarks like this are the responsibility of the DA's office or the police, not by politicians or people from a ministry.

[mrs. red]

When they find Natalee (and I hope with all my heart that they do), I think it will be possible to find out the reason for her death but I think that they will not be able to determine whether or not she had been drugged.

very highly possible... but I wish they had some of the hair from that backseat ... hair holds the effects of drugs longer than any other part of the body... or so I have read somewhere..

[GrannyToad]

A couple days back I think it was here, someone asked if Aruba has "911". It does. I've seen that sometimes in the papi Aruban news online. If someone's already answered, sorry. I can't read it all.

[KarmaRoundUp]

    You know what I am sitting here thinking,  how did they know Natalee would go willingly????  Did her friends ask her if she was ok? Did she really tell them she would catch up to them later?  Did she walk on her on volition into that car??

       I know this sounds stupid....but think about it.  How did these jerks KNOW they could do this so easily....in plain site??

as far as we have heard no-one has come forward or no-one we know has given witness evidence as to her not coming of her own volition. C and C's was emptying out, more than just the 3 would have most likely used the walk-way to the parking lot and more cars would have most likely been parked there.

According to the re-construction video they stopped and Natalee talked with some of her friends and in the video she indicated she didn't want to come with her friends but wanted to stay and go with Joran (with the car).
Maybe they promised her they knew a nice club/bar that was open late although then she might have wanted to invite some of her friends with her or made a mention of that.

I'm sorry Ramm but I don't believe much of that so called reinactment so I can't base any opinions on it.It seemed false to me from what I remember.How could they do a true reinactment based on what the suspects have stated when most of what came out of their mouths were lies?

[Auntiem]

IT WAS RAPE AND MURDER!!!!

[Rammstein]

When they find Natalee (and I hope with all my heart that they do), I think it will be possible to find out the reason for her death but I think that they will not be able to determine whether or not she had been drugged.

very highly possible... but I wish they had some of the hair from that backseat ... hair holds the effects of drugs longer than any other part of the body... or so I have read somewhere..

but if she had been drugged then it would have been to short time wise to had set in the hairs by the time that they had killed her.

[Carnut]

When they find Natalee (and I hope with all my heart that they do), I think it will be possible to find out the reason for her death but I think that they will not be able to determine whether or not she had been drugged.

very highly possible... but I wish they had some of the hair from that backseat ... hair holds the effects of drugs longer than any other part of the body... or so I have read somewhere..

but if she had been drugged then it would have been to short time wise to had set in the hairs by the time that they had killed her.

Yep.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Don't think any kids in her class has said they saw her in the car and asked her to get out.

Think that was a misslead from the reenaction show.

I think it was David Kock (lawyer of Satish) who said that based on court documents/statements from the students (at least that is what Scrux writes)

I would like to read those statements from the MB kids....that does sound familar to me,what you said above Ramm.

[klaasend]

When they find Natalee (and I hope with all my heart that they do), I think it will be possible to find out the reason for her death but I think that they will not be able to determine whether or not she had been drugged.

very highly possible... but I wish they had some of the hair from that backseat ... hair holds the effects of drugs longer than any other part of the body... or so I have read somewhere..

but if she had been drugged then it would have been to short time wise to had set in the hairs by the time that they had killed her.

The hair test wouldn't work for drugs taken or given to Natalee on the trip. It would only show if she had taken drugs approximately a month or more before according to this link:

http://www.drugtestwithhair.com/questions.htm#g4

[Auntiem]

   They found Natalee, don't you all remember?  June of 2005.  There was an announcement,and confirmation...we saw Beth's crumpling body as she got the most tragic news of her life!!!!   But then, came the retraction!  What happened???? The body was not "presentable".....too much DNA.  It was "disappeared!!!!

I believe a lot of things but not this rumor. The wrong department/people told this. Remarks like this are the responsibility of the DA's office or the police, not by politicians or people from a ministry.

I'm sorry was this a rumor?????   It came across the newswires as an announcement from the Aruban Government, I thought.  Can anybody here please clarify who made this announcement that Natalee had been found and where her body was?  Where they rushed Beth and Jug to? I didn't know this was only a rumor?  How could that happen?

[Carnut]

Don't think any kids in her class has said they saw her in the car and asked her to get out.

Think that was a misslead from the reenaction show.

I think it was David Kock (lawyer of Satish) who said that based on court documents/statements from the students (at least that is what Scrux writes)

I would like to read those statements from the MB kids....that does sound familar to me,what you said above Ramm.

Kock was just echoing the misdirection plan.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I believe it was Dash who said something about the woo hoo thing.  Then after speaking with all the kids, nobody really remembered Natalee yelling out the car window.

Do you know if any of the MB kids actually saw Natalee in the Kalpoe car?

Virginia Page: I remember dancing with her for most of the time, and then an hour before (Carlos ‘N’ Charlies) closed, I didn’t see her again. She hadn’t planned on meeting (Van der Sloot), he just happened to be there


Ed Kissel: I did not see her getting in the car. I saw her leaving, looked like with Van Der Sloot. I didn't see her getting in the car. You couldn't really see the road from inside the bar, so that is what I saw.   source


Ruth McVay: (quoted in interview as saying) Other friends told (me) the story of how (Natalee) got in the car with strangers.  The friends watched as (Natalee) drove away with three guys the friends had met the day before.



Ben Miller:  he later saw her leave Carlos 'N Charlie's, with Kalpoe and his brother Satish.

Thanks Kermit
Do you know when and with whom Ruth made these statements?I don't remember her saying that or Ben Miller...actually the first time I have heard his name is now.

[mrs. red]

AuntieEM.... Julia, was the one that concocted that rumor... it fits with the whole rushing the family to the empty locked courthouse...

[Buckeye]

A couple days back I think it was here, someone asked if Aruba has "911". It does. I've seen that sometimes in the papi Aruban news online. If someone's already answered, sorry. I can't read it all.

When I first searched, in 2005.  There was no 911 listed in tourist brochures, etc.  There were seperate numbers for ambulance, police (by station), etc.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Don't think any kids in her class has said they saw her in the car and asked her to get out.

Think that was a misslead from the reenaction show.

I think it was David Kock (lawyer of Satish) who said that based on court documents/statements from the students (at least that is what Scrux writes)

VAN SUSTEREN: How did your client describe what happened when they left Carlos and Charlie's? What did he say happened when they departed?

KOCK: Oh, you know, that when they left the place going towards their car, that Joran showed up with that girl, that the girl was going to drive with them in the car, that they drove around. But first, they also met a couple of friends of the disappeared girl, who told her, why doesn't she get out of the car, and she said, no, that she was going to drive around. They drove around, drove to the lighthouse, and then coming back towards the high-rises, but Joran asked to be dropped here, next to the Marriott, and that the two of them got out of the car and that they left. And for them, that was the end of it.
http://scrux.com/natalee/kockinterview.htm

Yeah,but that all comes from one suspects defense atty so I take that with a grain of salt unless it can be proven by someone less biased.

[Carnut]

Lots of folks saw Nat leaving CnC's in various ways.

No one has confirmed seeing Nat shouting out of the window of the car after is stopped at an intersection except the perps.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I gotta run and get some work done. 

I've really enjoyed the conversation today. Hope you all figure this out by the time I get back. It'll probably take me another few days to catch up with you all again at the rate you've been going.

bye

fran

Have a good night Fran.

[mrs. red]

I gotta run and get some work done. 

I've really enjoyed the conversation today. Hope you all figure this out by the time I get back. It'll probably take me another few days to catch up with you all again at the rate you've been going.

bye

fran

bye Fran... see you later

Have a good night Fran.

[KarmaRoundUp]

    You know what I am sitting here thinking,  how did they know Natalee would go willingly????  Did her friends ask her if she was ok? Did she really tell them she would catch up to them later?  Did she walk on her on volition into that car??

       I know this sounds stupid....but think about it.  How did these jerks KNOW they could do this so easily....in plain site??

as far as we have heard no-one has come forward or no-one we know has given witness evidence as to her not coming of her own volition. C and C's was emptying out, more than just the 3 would have most likely used the walk-way to the parking lot and more cars would have most likely been parked there.

According to the re-construction video they stopped and Natalee talked with some of her friends and in the video she indicated she didn't want to come with her friends but wanted to stay and go with Joran (with the car).

Maybe they promised her they knew a nice club/bar that was open late although then she might have wanted to invite some of her friends with her or made a mention of that.

Dave has said several times, that one of the MB'ers saw one of the Kalpoes leading her out by the elbow. 

Right,I remember that.That was the MB guy who was across the street from C&C's I think.Who knows how much he got right in that.