Lively Case Discussion #510 8/11 - 8/12/2006

[Shizaru]

ONO - In the Pap translator, the word TOPA translates to "come accross"

Thanks !!

To be clear, I said topa/loca because I can't read what it says.  Maybe it says loco pimp? Someone with better eyesight than me needs to try

[Appeals]

DOSSIER ON PLAYERS

I would like to put together whatever information we have, player by player.  I started with Jaime’s statement.  Would this be of any help to us?  I have many miscellaneous notes on people but not with specific documentation as to where the info came from.  I only intended originally for this to be for my reference so would that be a problem?  What I am thinking of would go something like this:

ANDRE ___________:   Joran’s friend
            Lives in Palm Beach
            Attends Mon Plaisier College
            Goes to _________ casino with JVDS

ARTHUR _________:   Andre’s younger brother

GUIDO WEVER:      Croupier at ____________ casino
            Joran’s friend
            Plays tennis with Joran at Racquet Club
            Speaks “funny” – is gay

STEPHANIE _______:   Joran’s “girlfriend”
            Colombian
            Lives in Moko


Okay, that’s the general idea.  If we started a separate sticky, perhaps we could find a way that each of us could edit the “template” after the thread is started.  If this has been done before, please let me know where I can access it.

Thank you all for all you do.

[cubbeegirl]

Does Joran always seem to not have a condom on him for himself, but happens to have one for Freddy or whomever needs one, when he's not involved directly with a girl?  I'll have to go back to the statements later, after work.    

ok.....I am going to go graphic here and say......WHO of any women you know in your life perform ORAL sex on ANYONE with a condom on. Have any of you peeps here done that? I have never done that w/ a rubber....what's the point. LOL! OK...and further to state I am 50 yrs. old and have never in my life had sex with a condom. EVER. I also must state I have never had a social disease in my life and I have been sexually active since the age of 15. All this detail is so weird to me.....in the statements. I used to be a teen and had MANY 'fingering' experiences before I had actual sex and NONE of those broke my 'hymen' for blood. I do not know what I am trying to say here......only that his buttwiping fingering obsession with 'girls' is useless info. Perhaps he perceives his 'fingering' as actual penatration w/ penis. GOD.....I KNOW I am not suppose to say that here, but so much has been PUT OUT THERE! What can I say and what cannot I say...???? I have a little more to say about virgin, lol.

I am sorry but this just got me giggling like crazy!! Thanks for a much needed laugh today.  

I think that joran has a teeny weenie and that's why he talks about 'finxxxxxx" all the time and oral sex.....cause he probably can't perform due to his teeny weenie.... so oral sex is his outlet....and that would fall right into line with him being bisexual.  

You and I think alike Sunny!!!!

[robots]

Computer Records

Tone is off. These supposed messages between Joran and Deepak are odd. Lovey-dovey he-hes and glad you are home content match up with nothing else that we know about the personalities of these two suspects.

Consider what immediatley preceeded these messages...the 7 minute phone call. In which Deepak rails against a heavily breathing Joran for leaving the girl at the beach. A call which Deepak says is rife with interference, thus prompting the follow up communication to assure all is well.

But the follow up is sparse, no interest shown in the hows and whys. No mention of the girl left on the beach, or his ride from Satish. I hope we get to see Joran's cell records from that night...or Val's.

Yes, very, very odd and un-natural...all staged..

its all BOGUS

[Frijole]

This just posted at BFN by Rammstein.  Very interesting timing... You don't suppose the Dutch are getting nervous?  Geez, what was wrong with the old ones?  Do we know if these guys are buds with Paulus too?


3 new judges appointed to Aruba

Mr. M.J.C. Koens
mr. J.T.G. Roovers
mr. J. Recourt

all are going to have Aruba as new workplace

mr. P.E. de Kort

is going to work from Curacoa

the appointments will go into effect on August 1st 2006


mr. Koens was until recently vice-president of the Court of Den Bosch
mr. Roovers was until recently a judge in Arnhem
mr. Recourt was until recently a judge in Amsterdam

mr. de Kort was until recently judge in Maastrich

[klaasend]

MY NEXT POST IS GOING TO REALLY BLOW THE MARGINS SO GET READY.  

SHIZARU - YOU MAY FIND THIS EASIER TO READ

[Appeals]

I have just been able to sign on for a while and I am frantically trying to get caught up, reading statements, FP, and discussions. There are a couple of things before I forget:

Could we have a separate thread that does not go into archive for:

Timelines (thank you Shizaru and SunFreak and anybody else my feeble mind can't remember at the moment)

Info on Players, shown by Player

Former interviews (transcripts from TV or radio)


What I am thinking is of, is how helpful it is to have at the back of a deposition transcript the word index, with each page that particular reference appears.  When you are trying to find specific information, this type of reference is invaluable.  I know we had so much compiled here before the crash, but it's not available now and I am trying to devise some type of indexed information.  Any ideas that are better than mine, please contribute it.

[robots]

MY NEXT POST IS GOING TO REALLY BLOW THE MARGINS SO GET READY.  

SHIZARU - YOU MAY FIND THIS EASIER TO READ

standing by to STAND BY  

[klaasend]

I have just been able to sign on for a while and I am frantically trying to get caught up, reading statements, FP, and discussions. There are a couple of things before I forget:

Could we have a separate thread that does not go into archive for:

Timelines (thank you Shizaru and SunFreak and anybody else my feeble mind can't remember at the moment)

Info on Players, shown by Player

Former interviews (transcripts from TV or radio)



What I am thinking is of, is how helpful it is to have at the back of a deposition transcript the word index, with each page that particular reference appears.  When you are trying to find specific information, this type of reference is invaluable.  I know we had so much compiled here before the crash, but it's not available now and I am trying to devise some type of indexed information.  Any ideas that are better than mine, please contribute it.

Yes, I'll search Shizaru and Sunfreaks post and create a sticky thread.  By the way, the only threads that go to the archive are the LCD threads and you can still view them there.

NOW - GET READY FOR BLOWN MARGINS

[Appeals]

MY NEXT POST IS GOING TO REALLY BLOW THE MARGINS SO GET READY.  

SHIZARU - YOU MAY FIND THIS EASIER TO READ

Oh Goody, somethin good's coming!  

[klaasend]

Looks like Topa Pimp ha ha ha

Which would be something like "come accross" pimp?  Or would it be like where are you pimp?


This is how I read those records. First off they are speaking Dutch, Pap and English.

1. 3:25.04 Deepak to Joran = Are you there (ben je der = dutch)
2. 3:25 04 Deepak to Joran = ?
3. 3:35.38 Deepak to Joran = Anyways fine, if you are home I'll speak to you tomorrow (anyways fijn de horen etc)
4. 3:25.42 Deepak to Joran = Take care
5. 3:33.08 Joran to Deepak = Hey pal (Hey swa - swa is pap for pal)
6. 3:35.32 Joran to Deepak = Come accross pimp hee he he (Topa pimp)

[Appeals]

Don't tell me that first text says "Papa Pimp he he he" !!!

Or am I "seeing" things?

[San]

Don't tell me that first text says "Papa Pimp he he he" !!!

Or am I "seeing" things?

Oh good because that's what I thought.

[LilPuma]

Oh My!  Look At All Those Statements!

While there is now so much new material to wade through, I did want to offer a pov I had formed from study of Kalpoe statements of 6/16 and prior.

Increasingly, I believe Natalee was drugged at C&C.  And base this on the timing of deepak's bathroom break at C&C and satish's well timed receipt of vibrating call from his brother while he was standing next to goon and Natalee.  Satish receives the call just as jvds and Natalee go to "take a shot".  And deepak is conveniently absent from the shot taking scene.  Based on their need to distance themselves from this important event at C&C that nite, it's almost certain, imo, that Natalee was drugged there.  This further informs the need for for jvds to tell deppak upon arrival to car to "drive around" to allow for effects of drug to take hold.  Further, they may have fed her additional dosages somewhere along the way.  And I think it explains their descriptions of Natalee as alternately falling asleep and waking, etc.

Based on above, and imo, I also think it's safe to conclude that significant portions of the beach story as related by K2 are false.

I agree.  Driving around for a little while, Natalee falling asleep and waking up, Joran not having a condom, and in his Primetime interiew, he said they were driving around and he was trying to figure out where he could take her.   From this, it looks unplanned.  Yet, he tells us his reason for going out and giving Natalee a ride was to pick up a tourist and have sex   I don't believe he didn't have a condom or that he was trying to think of where he could take her.  He said they've done this 20 times before; a practiced routine.  He keeps condoms handy and he knows where to take a girl for sex.  Natalee's friends say she seemed ok, but even Joran and Joe aren't denying the falling asleep and waking up, so the drug kicked in while driving to the lighthouse or driving around.  Why were they parked behind C&Cs?  If there was no other parking, why was no one else parked there?  Unless everyone but J2K was a tourist and took a cab, slipping out the back way sounds planned.  (Deepak may be fussy about his car and want to park it away from traffic, but parking in a deserted back lot would leave the car more vulnerable to theft or vandalism.)  Take her out the back, opposite direction of her friends and cabs.  If his intention was to have sex with her, why take her to a beach where he says there were a lot of people?  She said no or he had no condom, why not drop her off at the hotel and be done with it?  Planned.  Drugged.  No beach.  What I can't figure out is when Greta asked him if they went through the Marriott, he said, no SHE didn't go through the Marriott.  Sounds like a significant slip of the tongue, but I can't fit it in.

[Tylergal]

I am a little disappointed NOMAD's great post to raise money just by searching didn't get a more positive response.

MONKEYS!!  PLEASE USE THAT SEARCH ENGINE TO RAISE MONEY FOR TES!!  

And Sunny may can even let them know to expect it if Nomad did't already tell them she put them as her charity

Anna -- I've already bookmarked it and will start using it tomorrow when TES becomes a valid entry.

So did I and actually made it my page to search from Mozilla, but sounds like it will not be active until tomorrow.

[Appeals]

Re Search Engine:

Have saved.  Will start tomorrow.  Cheers to all of us who remember to use it.  God Bless TES.

[klaasend]

This is how I read those records.  First off they are speaking Dutch, Pap and English.

1.  3:25.04  Deepak to Joran = Are you there (ben je der = dutch)
2.  3:25 04  Deepak to Joran = ?
3.  3:35.38  Deepak to Joran = Anyways fine, if you are home I'll speak to you tomorrow (anyways fijn de horen etc)
4.  3:25.42  Deepak to Joran = Take care
5.  3:33.08  Joran to Deepak = Hey pal (Hey swa - swa is pap for pal)
6.  3:35.32  Joran to Deepak = Come accross pimp hee he he (Topa pimp)

[San]

This is how I read those records.  First off they are speaking Dutch, Pap and English.

1.  3:25.04  Deepak to Joran = Are you there (ben je der = dutch)
2.  3:25 04  Deepak to Joran = ?
3.  3:35.38  Deepak to Joran = Anyways fine, if you are home I'll speak to you tomorrow (anyways fijn de horen etc)
4.  3:25.42  Deepak to Joran = Take care
5.  3:33.08  Joran to Deepak = Hey pal (Hey swa - swa is pap for pal)
6.  3:35.32  Joran to Deepak = Come accross pimp hee he he (Topa pimp)

What guy tells another guy to take care.  I don't even tell me friends that on IM.  Usually I say see you tomorrow, talk to you later or goodnight.  But Take Care?

[klaasend]

This is how I read those records.  First off they are speaking Dutch, Pap and English.

1.  3:25.04  Deepak to Joran = Are you there (ben je der = dutch)
2.  3:25 04  Deepak to Joran = ?
3.  3:35.38  Deepak to Joran = Anyways fine, if you are home I'll speak to you tomorrow (anyways fijn de horen etc)
4.  3:25.42  Deepak to Joran = Take care
5.  3:33.08  Joran to Deepak = Hey pal (Hey swa - swa is pap for pal)
6.  3:35.32  Joran to Deepak = Come accross pimp hee he he (Topa pimp)

What guy tells another guy to take care.  I don't even tell me friends that on IM.  Usually I say see you tomorrow, talk to you later or goodnight.  But Take Care?

Good point San - I'm just glad that part was in English  

[Ono]

DOSSIER ON PLAYERS

I would like to put together whatever information we have, player by player.  I started with Jaime’s statement.  Would this be of any help to us?  I have many miscellaneous notes on people but not with specific documentation as to where the info came from.  I only intended originally for this to be for my reference so would that be a problem?  What I am thinking of would go something like this:

ANDRE ___________:   Joran’s friend
            Lives in Palm Beach
            Attends Mon Plaisier College
            Goes to _________ casino with JVDS

ARTHUR _________:   Andre’s younger brother

GUIDO WEVER:      Croupier at ____________ casino
            Joran’s friend
            Plays tennis with Joran at Racquet Club
            Speaks “funny” – is gay

STEPHANIE _______:   Joran’s “girlfriend”
            Colombian
            Lives in Moko


Okay, that’s the general idea.  If we started a separate sticky, perhaps we could find a way that each of us could edit the “template” after the thread is started.  If this has been done before, please let me know where I can access it.

Thank you all for all you do.

I think it would be exceedingly helpful and may reveal something valuable. Thanks.