Lively Case Discussion #510 8/11 - 8/12/2006

[crazybabyborg]

Klaas? They'll be in a new forum? OK, I'm showing my ignorance here, but where exactly will they be??  

Give me a couple minutes and I'll show you exactly where it will be  

Thx, Klaas!

[thecuz]

thanks klaas....i have my clothes back on!!!!

But I ALWAYS worry that your little monkey has an earache because it seems to be tugging on the ear.  Makes me want to pick him up and help him.  Or looks like just woke up to me.  One of my fav avatars.     Glad to see it back and have missed you.  You have been away a very long time.  

Yes C&C has to mind the entire world being told they drug tourists so the locals can do things to them and make them disappear!   So where will Mr. VIP hang out and stalk next??  

Bet we find out.     Get used to it Joran.  This is your future.

.

ahhh...thanks anna...i have missed that cute monkey too....my summer has been crazy...no computer time...but with school starting back...i will be on line more....and now that there is some new things to talk about....these statements make it a little more interesting!

[SunFreak2]

ARUBAISMS

"How much money do you have?"

"Go down to C&C and have a beer, she'll show up for Ladies Night."

"We do not know for sure that Natallee was using drugs."

"I will do anything to protect my son."

"Because I know the details and you don't."

"But there is no evidence!"

"The boys will be re-questioned sometime within the next ten days."

"We couldn't go in there like cowboys."

"We watch them. We know everything before we arrest them."

[Bearlyhere]

Joran is a liability.

Do you know why he was banned from the casino?

No I don't, but common sense tells me it is because he is now a liability. Bad for business no doubt.  He's got public relations leprosy now, I would think.  Who would want him in their establishment after all this? Especially since your patrons are mostly tourists.

You're right about that.  This is the first I heard about it though.

[klaasend]

This is where all the Statements and Records pertaining to the NH case will be, sometime tomorrow.  I just have to wait for Tom to set it up:

[SunFreak2]

Joran is a liability.

Do you know why he was banned from the casino?

No I don't, but common sense tells me it is because he is now a liability. Bad for business no doubt.  He's got public relations leprosy now, I would think.  Who would want him in their establishment after all this? Especially since your patrons are mostly tourists.

You're right about that.  This is the first I heard about it though.

I think it was Good Friday that we heard he was no longer allowed in the Excelsior.  

[Lala'sMom]

Okay, monkeys let's spice things up.
Deepak's June 13 statement"
To your question as to what exactly Steve had told me, I can state the following. I was talking to someone on the phone about what had happened and when I hung up the phone Steve said to me that I should not worry because he had seen us dropping off the girl at the hotel, he even saw that she had fallen down and that Joran had helped her up.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

If you read the other statements concerning Steve Croes.  It is obvious that both Deepak and Satish are confused about how or why he would offer an alibi for them.  Since he really wasn't part of the show...or did he know trouble was soon to follow?

[crazybabyborg]

gotcha Klaas! Thx so much!

[Ono]

Oldfart:

I don't know if this new group of jurists will have any effect on the case, probably not...I wish. I think the weak link in the chain is their system which does not have a jury, but depends on one person's opinon....not good at all for fair rendering of decisions.....(frankly, their legal system stinks).....

[LilPuma]

We know that Joran & Deepak were at CnC's on Saturday night as well.  I wonder what they did Friday night?  Were they there to witness Natalee rebuffing GvC? Wasn't Joran hanging around the Excelsior prior to Sunday telling the kids that he was an Exchange student/soccer player?

I had never thought along these lines, SunFreak, but if some of the MB boys had a run-in with Joran (don't know if that's confirmed), and some of the MB boys stepped in with GvC and Natalee, maybe Joran set out to nail Natalee or someone from the MB group.  While it seems like an extreme reaction for the average person, it would be typical of a hot tempered sociopath.  Could be he planned a rape, not a murder.  Or maybe a murder too if his ego was sufficiently offended by the Americans.

[Bearlyhere]

ARUBAISMS

"How much money do you have?"

"Go down to C&C and have a beer, she'll show up for Ladies Night."

"We do not know for sure that Natallee was using drugs."

"I will do anything to protect my son."

"Because I know the details and you don't."

"But there is no evidence!"

"The boys will be re-questioned sometime within the next ten days."

"We couldn't go in there like cowboys."

"We watch them. We know everything before we arrest them."

Big people lie.

[klaasend]

Okay, monkeys let's spice things up.
Deepak's June 13 statement"
To your question as to what exactly Steve had told me, I can state the following. I was talking to someone on the phone about what had happened and when I hung up the phone Steve said to me that I should not worry because he had seen us dropping off the girl at the hotel, he even saw that she had fallen down and that Joran had helped her up.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

If you read the other statements concerning Steve Croes.  It is obvious that both Deepak and Satish are confused about how or why he would offer an alibi for them.  Since he really wasn't part of the show...or did he know trouble was soon to follow?

Hard to figure out how Steve could tell Deepak he saw something that DID NOT happen.

Also, when Shango says who else plays inthe orchestra, could he be referring to another DJ?

[Bearlyhere]

Joran is a liability.

Do you know why he was banned from the casino?

No I don't, but common sense tells me it is because he is now a liability. Bad for business no doubt.  He's got public relations leprosy now, I would think.  Who would want him in their establishment after all this? Especially since your patrons are mostly tourists.

You're right about that.  This is the first I heard about it though.

I think it was Good Friday that we heard he was no longer allowed in the Excelsior.  

Thanks, SF.  So, even they know he has done something really wrong.  Interesting

[Ono]

Good night all...see you tomorrow.

[Bearlyhere]

Good night all...see you tomorrow.

Nite, Ono.

[SunFreak2]

Okay, monkeys let's spice things up.
Deepak's June 13 statement"
To your question as to what exactly Steve had told me, I can state the following. I was talking to someone on the phone about what had happened and when I hung up the phone Steve said to me that I should not worry because he had seen us dropping off the girl at the hotel, he even saw that she had fallen down and that Joran had helped her up.

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 2:58 pm
The music man’s song was not on the bill.
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

If you read the other statements concerning Steve Croes.  It is obvious that both Deepak and Satish are confused about how or why he would offer an alibi for them.  Since he really wasn't part of the show...or did he know trouble was soon to follow?

Lala's - glad someone else is talking Shango & Simian!  I posted the following snippets from Simian earlier today.

I hate to pull Simian out, but......

June 23, 2005 at 2:56 pm
There is a gap in the stories bewteen father & son.

June 23, 2005 at 3:03 pm
The gap is in the timeline.  Phone records. Log-on times on PC's.

June 23, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Steve Croes is singing

June 24, 2005 at 12:31pm
The father has two important rights:
1) One cannot testify against or for one's family.
2) He has the right not to incriminate himself.

June 24, 2005 at 5:49 pm
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning.  No wonder he was late for school.

June 24, 2005 at 6:06 pm
I ponder the evidence of sex and drugs with the father.  It was too hard for her and she could not handle the pressure.  I am done.  I am leaving now....

June 25, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate. The boy is mutilating his own tongue.  He doesn't want to let the old man down.

June 25, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home.  Joran stayed behind.  Somebody had to come get him.

June 25, 2005 at 7:50 pm
Around the pool the Hindus were told what to say.  They did not know why.  They were asked to protect the boy.  The father was not there, but he knew what to do.

The Hindus thought the girl would reappear.

June 25, 2005 8:57 pm
The Babylonians might release the Hindus.

The boy knows his father knows the way.  He's been inside the palace for many years.  It has worked before.  This time too much is at stake.  This time there was someone there to hear the tree fall.

The music man is singing.  The Simian can't understand the words.

A bloody tongue is a bloody tongue.  Swollen & thick.  This boy is lost.


My comments:
Joran refuses to answer questions b/c of his father's arrest, as seen in his statement of June 24, 2005.

Steve Croes was arrested June 17th, released June 26th.  I hope we get his statements, too.  I wonder what all he said.  I wonder too if he witnessed it?

In retrospect, Simian seems to know the inside scoop on what is happening in Aruba before or right when it happens.  

This is interesting too:
Simian says:
June 24, 2005 at 3:05 pm
Dutch the west coast is busy..however, that road between the bushes is very hidden. Have taken girls there myself, but in cars.  If you are on foot it would be so easy to hide in the mangroves.  The fisherman's huts.  There are no streetlights there.

How come the "Black Team" was not aware is beyond me.  They are all over in that area.  At least they used to be.


Above photo: Search of the area around the Fisherman's Huts.

[Sue]

Did Nancy Grace cover any of the case tonight ?
and was it anything interesting?

[klaasend]

I wonder if the blonde with Joran is this girl?  Maybe that's why the Marriott allowed Joran to hang out there?

From Joran's June 10th statement:

To your question as to how many girlfriends I have, I answer you the following. I only have one girlfriend and her name is "Florencia METZ". Before I had "Elaine" and before that "Carmen JACAPOUCHI" And she works in the Hospital and at the moment if Freddy's girlfriend. I have been having girlfriends since I was 14 and her name was "Jillian JOHNSON" and she now lives in the States. Her father had built the "Marriot Hotel" and she and I were both enrolled at the "International school". I also had a girlfriend named "Melody GRANADILLO". I have had five (5) serious girlfriends in total since I was 14.
So Joran used to date the daughter of the man who built the Marriot in Aruba

[SunFreak2]

We know that Joran & Deepak were at CnC's on Saturday night as well.  I wonder what they did Friday night?  Were they there to witness Natalee rebuffing GvC? Wasn't Joran hanging around the Excelsior prior to Sunday telling the kids that he was an Exchange student/soccer player?

I had never thought along these lines, SunFreak, but if some of the MB boys had a run-in with Joran (don't know if that's confirmed), and some of the MB boys stepped in with GvC and Natalee, maybe Joran set out to nail Natalee or someone from the MB group.  While it seems like an extreme reaction for the average person, it would be typical of a hot tempered sociopath.  Could be he planned a rape, not a murder.  Or maybe a murder too if his ego was sufficiently offended by the Americans.

Hi LilPuma!  I think Natalee was targeted and not just an opportunity seized.  We know that Joran is a master manipulator.  His own mom says when he wants to saty out later than his curfew, he turns his cell phone off.  Then he comes home and schmoozes Mom and gives her 3 "thick kisses."  Whatever they are!  

[SunFreak2]

Big people lie.

How could I forget that one!?!