Lively Case Discussion #510 8/11 - 8/12/2006

[Tylergal]

Good point posted by Maggie on the front page:

On May 29th 2005, between the hours of 16.00 and 19.00, I was called by Joran on my mobile phone with the phone number “*******”. Sometimes Joran calls me on the mobile phone of my sister, her name is “Maria del Pilar CARRASQUIXIA CACERES”. Her calling name is “Pilar”. The mobile phone number of Pilar is “*******”. The mobile phone number of Joran is “*******”. Joran had asked me whether I wanted to go out with him that night. He told me that a few American girls would go to “Carlos & Charlies” and whether I wanted to meet up with him there.

On Greta’s interview .Joran said around 9 or 10 on May 29th he called someone, then called Deepak right after leaving the casino and walking to Mcdonalds. Jamie is saying Joran called him and asked him between 4 and 7..

Not only that. This also goes to premeditation since the blackjack in the casino hasn't taken place until after Joran looses as the Texas Hold Em tournament.  Was this a preplanned decision to procure females?  Was is just by accident that it was the MB teens because they were sitting ducks to the pimp hunters?

Guido gave him the heads-up that the MB kids would be in there and about what time, because they had been there before.  Guido was the agent for the PIMPS.  He made the call to let them know.

[Lala'sMom]

From Joran's June 14 statement"

told Deepak that I left my shoes at the Marriot Hotel. Deepak told me not to worry that he would go back the next day and pick them up for me. I had left a pair of white and blue shoes of the make "K-Swiss", size "14" on the beach. These shoes I bought in the USA.

What I also can state is that during the drive Deepak told me that he had the next day off and that he didn't need to go to work. I had told Deepak that I did have school and that I was tired.

I was dropped off at my house by Deepak on May 30th 2005 at approximately 03.45. When I was getting out I asked him if he would go "on-line" again. Deepak answered me that he would. I also told him that I would call him tomorrow. I had asked Deepak if he could pick up the shoes I left behind at the beach. Deepak told me that he would immediately go and get them. Then Deepak drove off.

IIRC in one of Deepak's statement he mentions cleaning  his car because there was sand in it.  He said that Joran had sand on his shorts.  So if neither Deepak or Satish came back to the beach to pick up Joran and he walked home and made a cell call while he was walking...then how did the sand get in the car?  Who is lying most?  Deepak, Joran, Satish?

[dkpen]

Renzo is Joran's good friend and also a DJ. He goes by DJ Atomic I believe.

[Lala'sMom]

From Deepak's June 10 statement:
You are telling to me that my car looked very clean on that day. About that I can state the following, I had vacuumed my car the previous day.

To your question as to why I had vacuumed my car the previous day, I can state the following. I thought my car was dirty on the inside there was a lot of sand.

To your question as to how dirty my car was on the inside, I can state the following. There was a lot of sand inside of the car.

To your question as to when I had been to the beach for the last time, I can state the following. I had been to a party on the beach about two or three weeks ago.
To your question as to where the sand came from the day in question that I vacuumed the car, I can state the following. The sand came from Joran, because he had almost fallen into the water and after that he had sat down in my car with sand on his shorts and on his legs.

Let's see here... this was a statement of June 10 in regards to the night of Natalee's disappearance... he had vacuumed his car the previous day.  So was this the day they impounded the car or what?  Also if Deepak had not been to the beach since 2 or 3 weeks before...how could he have taken Joran and Natalee there?  She had only been missing for 10 days.  That is not 2 or 3 weeks in my book.  Maybe Aruba uses fuzzy math...

[sb]

I'm just now getting in here tonight, but I saw the computer records from last night (and I have reservations about them), but I am wondering if we have any CELLPHONE records that are analogous to what the computer forensics turned up.

Simian stated that Joran called his dad at 4 AM from the beach area. I am seeing no attestation of that from the computer records   as we have them. I am also not willing to treat the computer records as pristine Gospel truth without error, either.

[Lala'sMom]

Good point posted by Maggie on the front page:

On May 29th 2005, between the hours of 16.00 and 19.00, I was called by Joran on my mobile phone with the phone number “*******”. Sometimes Joran calls me on the mobile phone of my sister, her name is “Maria del Pilar CARRASQUIXIA CACERES”. Her calling name is “Pilar”. The mobile phone number of Pilar is “*******”. The mobile phone number of Joran is “*******”. Joran had asked me whether I wanted to go out with him that night. He told me that a few American girls would go to “Carlos & Charlies” and whether I wanted to meet up with him there.

On Greta’s interview .Joran said around 9 or 10 on May 29th he called someone, then called Deepak right after leaving the casino and walking to Mcdonalds. Jamie is saying Joran called him and asked him between 4 and 7..

Not only that. This also goes to premeditation since the blackjack in the casino hasn't taken place until after Joran looses as the Texas Hold Em tournament.  Was this a preplanned decision to procure females?  Was is just by accident that it was the MB teens because they were sitting ducks to the pimp hunters?

Guido gave him the heads-up that the MB kids would be in there and about what time, because they had been there before.  Guido was the agent for the PIMPS.  He made the call to let them know.

I just couldn't resist...sorry.  

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
All that the gamblers knew was written down. They knew the girl. She spent her nights at their tables.

[Hotshot]

I maybe wrong here about the computer thing, but I have to put it out there.  I thought only his "little" brother was there, the one that had to be watched by Paulus......Val was still in Holland with mom .....  Am I wrong here?  I have to hit the sack, but something to talk about anyway.

[SunFreak2]

Lala's - Deepak said he cleaned the sand out of the car the day before he gave his statement at Bubali.  Statement given at Bubali on 5/31, so car cleaned 5/30.  But was that 5/29 - 5/30 overnight or 5/30 - 5/31 overnight after the night of gambling?  Didn't one of the National Enquirer articles state that Deepak & Satish were taking care of Natalee's body right before their encounter with Beth?  There seems to be a discrepancy between when Joran says he got the call and what time the Twitty's arrived at the house, even considering the time it took for Paulus to answer the door.

[Lala'sMom]

From Joran's June 14 statement:
At approximately 19.15 pm I left on foot for the Wyndham Hotel. I was alone. My tennis gear I had left behind the bar at the Raquet club. I had also removed my tennis shoes and left them in the bag behind. I had taken from my tennis bag a pair of slippers and walked away on those. From the clubhouse I walked in the direction of Salinja to the Marriot Hotel. I walked along the same route that Deepak had taken to drop off me and Natalee. At the beach of the Marriot I tried for a little while to

find my shoes. They were nowhere to be found. I looked for about two minutes. Then I walked over the beach to the Wyndham Hotel. On the way there I saw a lot of people. I did not go to Fisherman's Hut to see if Natalee was still lying there. I at that moment was more worried about the shoes that I had left behind because I was unaware that Natalee had gone missing.

Why would he even think about going to look for Natalee?  That is a bizarre statement to make.  What did he think...she was still there dead where he left her?  No he was thinking about that fact that he had left her there the night before, but she was already dead and he knew it.  That statement came from somewhere deep inside his conscience, he almost let it slip...but he caught himself.

[Lala'sMom]

I thought Tyler was going to tango with me?  Where is everyone tonight?

[SunFreak2]

From Joran's June 14 statement:
At approximately 19.15 pm I left on foot for the Wyndham Hotel. I was alone. My tennis gear I had left behind the bar at the Raquet club. I had also removed my tennis shoes and left them in the bag behind. I had taken from my tennis bag a pair of slippers and walked away on those. From the clubhouse I walked in the direction of Salinja to the Marriot Hotel. I walked along the same route that Deepak had taken to drop off me and Natalee. At the beach of the Marriot I tried for a little while to

find my shoes. They were nowhere to be found. I looked for about two minutes. Then I walked over the beach to the Wyndham Hotel. On the way there I saw a lot of people. I did not go to Fisherman's Hut to see if Natalee was still lying there. I at that moment was more worried about the shoes that I had left behind because I was unaware that Natalee had gone missing.

IIRC, Joran said in one of his Feb 2006 interviews that he never looked for his shoes after he left them on the beach.

[dkpen]

Dana Pretzer's podcast is up from tonights show.

[SunFreak2]

I thought Tyler was going to tango with me?  Where is everyone tonight?

I'd rather do the Simi shimmy!

[Lala'sMom]

From Joran's June 14 statement:
At approximately 12.30 my dad and me had arrived at Bubali police station. I was interviewed as a witness. I cannot remember that in my statement I had said that I had been at Fisherman's Huts with Natalee. I might be possible that I stated that. During the interview I called Deepak on his mobile. I had asked him what clothes Natalee had been wearing that night. He told me that Natalee was wearing a blue skirt and a blue top.

Let's see, Joran can describe her underwear in detail but has no idea what she was wearing...liar, liar, pants on fire!  Boy, this selective memory loss is a major disease on Aruba.  I wonder if it could be due to all the alcohol consumption by underage teen pimps?

[klaasend]

I wonder if the blonde with Joran is this girl?  Maybe that's why the Marriott allowed Joran to hang out there?

From Joran's June 10th statement:

To your question as to how many girlfriends I have, I answer you the following. I only have one girlfriend and her name is "Florencia METZ". Before I had "Elaine" and before that "Carmen JACAPOUCHI" And she works in the Hospital and at the moment if Freddy's girlfriend. I have been having girlfriends since I was 14 and her name was "Jillian JOHNSON" and she now lives in the States. Her father had built the "Marriot Hotel" and she and I were both enrolled at the "International school". I also had a girlfriend named "Melody GRANADILLO". I have had five (5) serious girlfriends in total since I was 14.
So Joran used to date the daughter of the man who built the Marriot in Aruba

http://www.krabshuis.nl/
Mosquito Danger


Our three authors attend the International School of Aruba. Fernando Viana, 9th grade is the son of Doctor Carlos Viana and Phyllis. Jillian Johnson, 10th grade is the daughter of Marshal and Stephanie.  Susana de la Oliva, 10th grade is the daughter of parents who are both physicians.

The photo above was taken about 2 years ago.  Do you guys think the girl Joran was with in Aruba at the Marriott could be her?

[Lala'sMom]

I thought Tyler was going to tango with me?  Where is everyone tonight?

I'd rather do the Simi shimmy!

Actually, I have been doing the Simi Shimmy most of the night.  I like that dance too.  

[klaasend]

I maybe wrong here about the computer thing, but I have to put it out there.  I thought only his "little" brother was there, the one that had to be watched by Paulus......Val was still in Holland with mom .....  Am I wrong here?  I have to hit the sack, but something to talk about anyway.

Actually I'm not sure either one was there.  It appears that Joran and Valentijn are both using the computer at the same time.

[Lala'sMom]

Klaas
You could be right about the girl.  Explains why he hasn't been banned from there yet.

[Tylergal]

I maybe wrong here about the computer thing, but I have to put it out there.  I thought only his "little" brother was there, the one that had to be watched by Paulus......Val was still in Holland with mom .....  Am I wrong here?  I have to hit the sack, but something to talk about anyway.

We have no idea who was there because they lie so much.  It was said by Anita that both boys (the other two) returned with her.  Later Joran says Poppin' Fresh was the one at home, and now we see ValJ's name on the computer.  Widget documented that two people returned from the NL with Toxic Anita on 6/1/06.  IF these people did not have a reason for it, they would not lie about every little detail in their lives.  They would rather stand on their waterheads than sit straight up and tell the truth.  I have never heard more pathological liars in my life.

[SunFreak2]

http://www.krabshuis.nl/
Mosquito Danger


Our three authors attend the International School of Aruba. Fernando Viana, 9th grade is the son of Doctor Carlos Viana and Phyllis. Jillian Johnson, 10th grade is the daughter of Marshal and Stephanie.  Susana de la Oliva, 10th grade is the daughter of parents who are both physicians.

The photo above was taken about 2 years ago.  Do you guys think the girl Joran was with in Aruba at the Marriott could be her?

From Joran's 6-24-05 statement:
"I have to say that I am not sure any more if "Freddy ZEDAN" or "Fernando VIANA" was in the appartement with us."  

One minute he is talking about Chato (Leonardo) then he is talking about Fernando.

Yes, I think that is a pic of Jillian Johnson with Joran - same face shape with pointy chin.