Lively Case Discussion #510 8/11 - 8/12/2006

[Shizaru]

After reviewing the last round round of statements, the computer logs, cell phone records, it seems to me that whomever drove Joran home that night may have been the last with the girl. She could have been handed off to a second group or left at a party house.

Both Deepak and Satish deny driving Joran home. If we find out who drove Joran home we may find out who was last with Natalee and what they did with her. The chat at 3:25 am does not seem like pimps worried about concealing a death, it seems like two boys bragging about their last accomplishment. I have read that many sexual perps, immediately after the act, relive it by viewing porn. Porn sites were visited and two movies were downloaded for an hour until 4:30 am.

If we can find out who gave Joran the ride home, that person may be deeply involved in the dissapearance. It is also possible this whole thing came down at the Sloot home and there never was a trip to the beach.

Lets talk this over.

I don't think anyone drove Joran home.  The interval between reported time of phone call to Deepak (2:26) and "I'm home" TM matches almost exactly the amount of time it takes to walk the 2 miles from the beach to Jorans' home (40 minutes).  Deepak was on the computer from 2:00-3:00 telling John Croes that Joran was walking home at that same moment.  I think Joran raped and killed her on the beach and then either disappeared her before  walking home (possibly by carrying her a dumpster) or temporarily hid her under some bushes or something and came back for her later by himself or with Paulus.  I suspect either her death or disappearance or both somehow involved going into the ocean near the FH, as Joran's original version of the beach story, told to Deepak that nite, was apparently that he and Natalee went into the ocean and when they came out she passed out.  And Joran's comment to the headmaster on 5/31 was that "maybe she hit her head and drowned".  

Most crimes are simple, this one probably was too.  Ordinary date rape, except that somehow the victim died.  

I don't think she was ever at the VDS home unless it was after the beach.  It doesn't fit the text message records, Joran wouldn't be telling Deepak he was home if Deepak had dropped him off there. And I don't buy any secret code theories, I don't think there was any complicated premeditated plan here, and it's clear these 3 idiots weren't even thinking about polis reading their computer records or the records would have matched their original stories not contradicted them.

[BTgirl]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but do we know what kind of porn Joran was watching that night? Has he ever said anything more than that he was watching porn?

[Buckeye]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but do we know what kind of porn Joran was watching that night? Has he ever said anything more than that he was watching porn?

The sites were listed...one was backseatbangers.....

[Buckeye]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but do we know what kind of porn Joran was watching that night? Has he ever said anything more than that he was watching porn?

The sites were listed...one was backseatbangers.....

adding...look at computer records topic

[San]

I don't think anyone drove Joran home.  The interval between reported time of phone call to Deepak (2:26) and "I'm home" TM matches almost exactly the amount of time it takes to walk the 2 miles from the beach to Jorans' home (40 minutes).  Deepak was on the computer from 2:00-3:00 telling John Croes that Joran was walking home at that same moment.  I think Joran raped and killed her on the beach and then either disappeared her before  walking home (possibly by carrying her a dumpster) or temporarily hid her under some bushes or something and came back for her later by himself or with Paulus.  I suspect either her death or disappearance or both somehow involved going into the ocean near the FH, as Joran's original version of the beach story, told to Deepak that nite, was apparently that he and Natalee went into the ocean and when they came out she passed out.  And Joran's comment to the headmaster on 5/31 was that "maybe she hit her head and drowned".  

Most crimes are simple, this one probably was too.  Ordinary date rape, except that somehow the victim died.  

I don't think she was ever at the VDS home unless it was after the beach.  It doesn't fit the text message records, Joran wouldn't be telling Deepak he was home if Deepak had dropped him off there. And I don't buy any secret code theories, I don't think there was any complicated premeditated plan here, and it's clear these 3 idiots weren't even thinking about polis reading their computer records or the records would have matched their original stories not contradicted them.

What if Joran realized there was something wrong with her and took her into the ocean thinking it would help remove any of his DNA or even revive her.  What sticks in my mind is the charges against Guido Wever (Heavy Battery).  This involves some sort of trauma to her head and it was not accidental.

[klaasend]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but do we know what kind of porn Joran was watching that night? Has he ever said anything more than that he was watching porn?

GOODMORNING ALL!

[Buckeye]

I don't think anyone drove Joran home.  The interval between reported time of phone call to Deepak (2:26) and "I'm home" TM matches almost exactly the amount of time it takes to walk the 2 miles from the beach to Jorans' home (40 minutes).  Deepak was on the computer from 2:00-3:00 telling John Croes that Joran was walking home at that same moment.  I think Joran raped and killed her on the beach and then either disappeared her before  walking home (possibly by carrying her a dumpster) or temporarily hid her under some bushes or something and came back for her later by himself or with Paulus.  I suspect either her death or disappearance or both somehow involved going into the ocean near the FH, as Joran's original version of the beach story, told to Deepak that nite, was apparently that he and Natalee went into the ocean and when they came out she passed out.  And Joran's comment to the headmaster on 5/31 was that "maybe she hit her head and drowned".  

Most crimes are simple, this one probably was too.  Ordinary date rape, except that somehow the victim died.  

I don't think she was ever at the VDS home unless it was after the beach.  It doesn't fit the text message records, Joran wouldn't be telling Deepak he was home if Deepak had dropped him off there. And I don't buy any secret code theories, I don't think there was any complicated premeditated plan here, and it's clear these 3 idiots weren't even thinking about polis reading their computer records or the records would have matched their original stories not contradicted them.

What if Joran realized there was something wrong with her and took her into the ocean thinking it would help remove any of his DNA or even revive her.  What sticks in my mind is the charges against Guido Wever (Heavy Battery).  This involves some sort of trauma to her head and it was not accidental.

And there was that whole bit about the boxing gloves...maybe there was blood on the gloves....Just thinking here...

[sharon]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but do we know what kind of porn Joran was watching that night? Has he ever said anything more than that he was watching porn?

I saw Terryd asking that on the front page, too.

I think it's a great question  I wouldn't know how to begin to find out.

Although I'm not sure I believe who downloaded it based upon the PC info (because I thought we were told at one time that the hard drive had been tampered with).

It still would reveal a lot -- imo.

[San]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but do we know what kind of porn Joran was watching that night? Has he ever said anything more than that he was watching porn?

GOODMORNING ALL!

Good Morning Klaas.

I was looking for what you posted.  Even when your half awake your faster than me

[klaasend]

Yep - woke up kindof late  

[BTgirl]

Sorry if this has already been covered, but do we know what kind of porn Joran was watching that night? Has he ever said anything more than that he was watching porn?

GOODMORNING ALL!

Thanks, Klaas (and everyone else who responded). When I have to actually work at my job during the day,  I get behind on my reading.

[Shizaru]

Someone, I think it ws Kat Gram, posted a map the other day showing a construction area by the FH, and I was surprised at how close it was, closer to the beach than than the pond.  

Could someone post that photo of the M beach that shows the whole beach and road from the FH on the left to the Marriott on the right, also teh one that shows the overhead shot of the whole area including pond.  I want to see exactly where the construction area was.

[Shizaru]

Someone, I think it ws Kat Gram, posted a map the other day showing a construction area by the FH, and I was surprised at how close it was, closer to the beach than than the pond.  

Could someone post that photo of the M beach that shows the whole beach and road from the FH on the left to the Marriott on the right, also teh one that shows the overhead shot of the whole area including pond.  I want to see exactly where the construction area was.

never mind, I found it on the Aru-Bay thread

[klaasend]

Someone, I think it ws Kat Gram, posted a map the other day showing a construction area by the FH, and I was surprised at how close it was, closer to the beach than than the pond.  

Could someone post that photo of the M beach that shows the whole beach and road from the FH on the left to the Marriott on the right, also teh one that shows the overhead shot of the whole area including pond.  I want to see exactly where the construction area was.

never mind, I found it on the Aru-Bay thread

Here's one that Kat_Gram posted the other day:

[Shizaru]

I can't post just the photo since topic is locked, but in the photo linked below, which road is it where Deepak and Satish said they dropped J and N off?  They said it was the first unnamed side street north of the Marriott.  Would that be the long road just to the left to the Marriott, or the next one down, all the way over by the FH?  If the latter than J and 2K don't agree on the dropoff point. Deepak said they drove about 30 meters down the road, that sounds more consistent with  the shorter road by the FH.    

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=3

[Shizaru]

Someone, I think it ws Kat Gram, posted a map the other day showing a construction area by the FH, and I was surprised at how close it was, closer to the beach than than the pond.  

Could someone post that photo of the M beach that shows the whole beach and road from the FH on the left to the Marriott on the right, also teh one that shows the overhead shot of the whole area including pond.  I want to see exactly where the construction area was.

never mind, I found it on the Aru-Bay thread

Here's one that Kat_Gram posted the other day:

Where's the construction area on the photo map I linked above?  It looks like it would be in the triangular area to the right of the FH, above the beach road and below LG Smith.

[klaasend]

I can't post just the photo since topic is locked, but in the photo linked below, which road is it where Deepak and Satish said they dropped J and N off?  They said it was the first unnamed side street north of the Marriott.  Would that be the long road just to the left to the Marriott, or the next one down, all the way over by the FH?  If the latter than J and 2K don't agree on the dropoff point. Deepak said they drove about 30 meters down the road, that sounds more consistent with  the shorter road by the FH.    

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=3

According to reports, it's the long road right next to the Marriott, just north of.  The problem is we can't believe anything they've said so it could be any of those roads.

[Buckeye]

I can't post just the photo since topic is locked, but in the photo linked below, which road is it where Deepak and Satish said they dropped J and N off?  They said it was the first unnamed side street north of the Marriott.  Would that be the long road just to the left to the Marriott, or the next one down, all the way over by the FH?  If the latter than J and 2K don't agree on the dropoff point. Deepak said they drove about 30 meters down the road, that sounds more consistent with  the shorter road by the FH.    

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=3

didn't one of the police comments say it was the northernmost unmarked road??

[Buckeye]

remark reporting officers, suspect D.S. KALPOE indicated to us as the location where he dropped of Joran and Natalee, the nameless road that runs in front of the most northern part of the "Marriot Hotel" at about the most northerly room.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=200

[klaasend]

SHIZARU - I did some maps of the construction area and Red did a FP post on it last month.  I'm trying to locate them now.