Lively Case Discussion #510 8/11 - 8/12/2006

[San]

Yayyyy!

Almetroguy to the rescue


Tylergal & San (from last thread)...

I think that's the part that I couldn't grasp -- why I couldn't accept that this has been done before..

I agree with you San -- I think if it were my daughter (I don't have any children) the boy would be fish food, if I had to spend the rest of my life in jail

Although I was severely put down for that position on a different site (the daughter had enough trauma, wouldn't want to subject them to more, need to protect them, what do I know I don't have children) I still feel that way.

Why aren't the parents of these girls yelling louder? How can they perpetuate the shame by not helping thier children learn that one way to NOT be a victim is to fight back.

How do they expect their daughters to 'heal' and regain 'esteem' if they perpetuate the shame

If this is the majority opinion of Aruban parents -- it's no woner the PIMP thing is going strong. And you're right -- probably started a long, long time ago

I don't have children either Sharon and we both feel the same way.

[klaasend]

Does anyone have the link to the tickle or myspace site for Van Der Straaten's son, or who we thought might be his son?  Was it Guillermo?

[SunFreak2]

Does anyone have the link to the tickle or myspace site for Van Der Straaten's son, or who we thought might be his son?  Was it Guillermo?

His name is Gillian.

[Peaches]

Thank you, Metro.  That's what I thought.

[SunFreak2]

Moko is the dump somewhat behind the vds house (with the white truck dumped in it).

Moko can hardly be a dump if millian dollar homes are built there.

Found this about Moko on the real estate site:

The property (freehold) land is 40.270 m2 (433.305 square feet). In MOKO, quiet area North-western part of the island. Already adjacent to development area with high class housing. Price per square meter US$ 34.30 Excellent opportunity for developers.

Location: MOKO Price: US$1,381,261.00

http://www.arubarealestate.com/search/real.mv

[Lala'sMom]

Morning Monkeys. I see another monkey thinks I should be in a book...well I agree.  The book entitled "Most Marvelous Monkey Musings". I think it would make a great coffee table book and a conversation starter.  


Now, a question or two...do the cell records indicate anything about that "8 minute" call we have heard reference to?  Maybe Metro can clue me in, as most of you know, my technical abilities are limited.  Did anyone answer my question last night about who is the John Charles Croes that Deepak refers to in some of his statements? TIA

[klaasend]

So if I am reading what Metro just opined concerning cell phone records, there would be more information if somebody had asked for it?  Or there is more info out there?  

I would hope there is more detail out there and I bet there is.  Does someone already have the info?  Are they going to do anything with it?

*****************************
Peaches...there maybe or maybe not more information available. It would depend on what the service provider captures and retains. I think what is relavant is that this information while thin establishes that JVDS in the area at the time stated. Now..what was he doing in the area? I don't know but I think it's interesting that the time line states he and PVDS are seen entering the H.I. casino at 7:51PM and that the call he did make was to Deepak...were they planning the evening? Were they talking soccer? Who knows..

Is there a question in your mind about the Lighthouse area?

[sharon]

Moko is the dump somewhat behind the vds house (with the white truck dumped in it).

Moko can hardly be a dump if millian dollar homes are built there.

Found this about Moko on the real estate site:

The property (freehold) land is 40.270 m2 (433.305 square feet). In MOKO, quiet area North-western part of the island. Already adjacent to development area with high class housing. Price per square meter US$ 34.30 Excellent opportunity for developers.

Tocation: MOKO Price: US$1,381,261.00

http://www.arubarealestate.com/search/real.mv

SunFreak2 --

There literally is a swampy 'dump' in the Moko area.

TES dogs got 'hits' there.

There have been many pictures posted of this swampy dump. With the white pickup truck sitting on top of a pile of junk.

The next time I come across a picture of it, I will post it or the link for you.

.

[Atlmetroguy]

So if I am reading what Metro just opined concerning cell phone records, there would be more information if somebody had asked for it?  Or there is more info out there?  

I would hope there is more detail out there and I bet there is.  Does someone already have the info?  Are they going to do anything with it?

*****************************
Peaches...there maybe or maybe not more information available. It would depend on what the service provider captures and retains. I think what is relavant is that this information while thin establishes that JVDS in the area at the time stated. Now..what was he doing in the area? I don't know but I think it's interesting that the time line states he and PVDS are seen entering the H.I. casino at 7:51PM and that the call he did make was to Deepak...were they planning the evening? Were they talking soccer? Who knows..

Is there a question in your mind about the Lighthouse area?

***************************
Honestly, not really because I think the diagrams provided are inadequate/incorrect in that the diagram shows a "lighthouse" but maps of the island only show the "California Lighthouse". When I look at the diagrams of the cell_id's they look to be in the Palm Beach area but when you look at a map of the island the lighthouse shown is the one on the northern tip of the island.

What is does make me think if the evidence collecting is as inaccurate as these diagrams then ALE will never be able to solve this case.

[Atlmetroguy]

Morning Monkeys. I see another monkey thinks I should be in a book...well I agree.  The book entitled "Most Marvelous Monkey Musings". I think it would make a great coffee table book and a conversation starter.  


Now, a question or two...do the cell records indicate anything about that "8 minute" call we have heard reference to?  Maybe Metro can clue me in, as most of you know, my technical abilities are limited.  Did anyone answer my question last night about who is the John Charles Croes that Deepak refers to in some of his statements? TIA

**************************
Hi Lala's - this call that we have the "records" for is a seperate call that was around 7:25PM in the early evening. I think the "8 minute" call was seperate and in the early morning hours of 5/30

[klaasend]

Metro:

#9123 is the Lighthouse on this map.  Richting (direction) Lighthouse.  That is the California Lighthouse at the northern tip of the island.  It's hard to see but there is an arrow saying richting (dirction) Lighthouse.

[sharon]

Interesting comment from Joran's 6/24 statement


To your question whether I know the girl named "Stephany BOEKHOUWER", I answer you the following. This year, I don't remember the exact date, Freddy, Jaime and me went to a "Houseparty" in Oranjestad. We drove in Jaime's car to the houseparty. The car of Jaime is famous because we had experienced a lot of things in Jaime's car. Jaime has a 4-door green "Honda". On that day Freddy had sex with Stephany BOEKHOUWER on the backseat of Jaime's car. I gave Freddy a condom before he had sex with Stephany. While Freddy was having sex with Stephany on the backseat, Jaime and myself stood down

[Lala'sMom]

Interesting comment from Joran's 6/24 statement


To your question whether I know the girl named "Stephany BOEKHOUWER", I answer you the following. This year, I don't remember the exact date, Freddy, Jaime and me went to a "Houseparty" in Oranjestad. We drove in Jaime's car to the houseparty. The car of Jaime is famous because we had experienced a lot of things in Jaime's car. Jaime has a 4-door green "Honda". On that day Freddy had sex with Stephany BOEKHOUWER on the backseat of Jaime's car. I gave Freddy a condom before he had sex with Stephany. While Freddy was having sex with Stephany on the backseat, Jaime and myself stood down

In their minds it's famous as the Pimp Car.  I will refer to it as the Pervert Car from now on.  Talk about priorities, you can tell what they spend their time scheming and planning about.

[nonesuche]

Metro-

Google Earth has also recently updated their maps of Aruba, I had the link stored but can't find it, but I was surprised by the level of detail they have plotted now via satellite - so you might want to look there too.

Hammer-

One statement contains Joran relating how his father can't remember things, has a memory problem? Intuition tells me that is a really powerful clue to what was happening here, and indicative also of his desire to cover for his father?

[Kimmy53]

Joran's June24th statement:

To your question whether I had a relationship with a girl name "Rika", I answer you the following. Rika was my girlfriend but we did not have a sexual relationship with each other. We may have done some french kissing but I did not have sexual relations with her because she is twelve (12) years old. Rika's parents found out about our relationship and that is why we stopped the relationship. I do not know Rika's last name

This makes me SICK to my stomach.  12 years old.

[Atlmetroguy]

Metro:

#9123 is the Lighthouse on this map.  Richting (direction) Lighthouse.  That is the California Lighthouse at the northern tip of the island.  It's hard to see but there is an arrow saying richting (dirction) Lighthouse.

*********************
Klaas - I don't know. The diagram could be using that as a nomenclature to indicate direction only. Since the call was only 2 minutes and 28 seconds it appears the Cali lighthouse is at least 4 miles away and I don't think JVDS could have made it 4 miles from Palm Beach to the lighthouse in the call time duration indicated.

If I could get a better system coverage map showing all cell site's with id's
I could give a better opinion.

However...I could be wrong...

[mrs. red]

Yayyyy!

Almetroguy to the rescue


Tylergal & San (from last thread)...

I think that's the part that I couldn't grasp -- why I couldn't accept that this has been done before..

I agree with you San -- I think if it were my daughter (I don't have any children) the boy would be fish food, if I had to spend the rest of my life in jail

Although I was severely put down for that position on a different site (the daughter had enough trauma, wouldn't want to subject them to more, need to protect them, what do I know I don't have children) I still feel that way.

Why aren't the parents of these girls yelling louder? How can they perpetuate the shame by not helping thier children learn that one way to NOT be a victim is to fight back.

How do they expect their daughters to 'heal' and regain 'esteem' if they perpetuate the shame

If this is the majority opinion of Aruban parents -- it's no woner the PIMP thing is going strong. And you're right -- probably started a long, long time ago

See, I agree with you Sharon... and IMO... the person being raped should have no shame, IT ISN'T SOMETHING YOU ASK FOR and it's not about sex.   The shame belongs to those that allow it to continue.

As for the Dayo editorial.... he just mixed up his facts - it isn't our site with posters having differnent names.... it's not like RU where we have bondia/scoop/glenda..... etc.  need I say more?

[the big hammer]

The Addled, Failed Judge-in-Training

nonsuche writes: "One statement contains Joran relating how his father can't remember things, has a memory problem? Intuition tells me that is a really powerful clue to what was happening here, and indicative also of his desire to cover for his father?"

What ?!?

goon explains his dad has "memory problem" -- the "I can't recall" defense.  

But he's a JUDGE (waana-be).  He HAS to remember things (like legal statutes) to perfomr his function.  No wonder he failed his judge test in March.

These are incredible statements.

[mrs. red]

Oh My!  Look At All Those Statements!

It's gonna take some time to explore these latest ones.  ANd from reading last nite's thread, it looks like I'll need some disinfectant to work through this depravity.

But I sense the lid being ripped off something.  And while Aruba may now attempt to close case, it may another attempt that fails.  With some of these revelations -- and startling new FACTS, it seems increasingly strange that "someone" was successfully charged and prosecuted in this case.

I noticed from last nite's thread that Tylergal seems pretty strong that paulus was directly involved in assault / murder of Natalee.

Was wondering if anyone could summarize what she sees that brings her to that conclusion.

While there is now so much new material to wade through, I did want to offer a pov I had formed from study of Kalpoe statements of 6/16 and prior.

Increasingly, I believe Natalee was drugged at C&C.  And base this on the timing of deepak's bathroom break at C&C and satish's well timed receipt of vibrating call from his brother while he was standing next to goon and Natalee.  Satish receives the call just as jvds and Natalee go to "take a shot".  And deepak is conveniently absent from the shot taking scene.  Based on their need to distance themselves from this important event at C&C that nite, it's almost certain, imo, that Natalee was drugged there.  This further informs the need for for jvds to tell deppak upon arrival to car to "drive around" to allow for effects of drug to take hold.  Further, they may have fed her additional dosages somewhere along the way.  And I think it explains their descriptions of Natalee as alternately falling asleep and waking, etc.

Based on above, and imo, I also think it's safe to conclude that significant portions of the beach story as related by K2 are false.

Well jvds stated he paid $20 for the drinks - isn't that the exact amount jossy mentioned on dana's show?  

as for the beach story... I will never not believe that story didn't come about due to the woman who was accosted there... they were trying to pin this on something unrelated that had already happened to make it more plausible - i have never believed they were at the beach.

[Kimmy53]

JOran's June 24th statement:

 that he know that if he would make a statement he could bring his father into trouble

- that his father suffers from bad memory and that because of that his and his fathers statements would not correspond
- that his father even can't remember what kind of clothes he himself wore the day before

None:  this is rather peculiar - I agree that Joran seems to be covering for dear old dad.  In other words, don't even ask Paulus anything.

IF they were both to tell the truth, the statements WOULD coorespond.  This statement speaks volumes to me.  He is just pre-emptivly stating this - like - see I told you he doesn't remember anything.  Grrr.