Lively Case Discussion #675 8/8 - 8/10/2007

[SunnyinTX]

JULIA RENFRO REFERS TO PAULUS AS A JUDGE - I do not believe people would call him a judge if he
did not hear cases in Aruba!
Taxi drivers probably make more than the judge!
Julia Renfro
Editor-in-Chief
Aruba Today
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1982.540

but we all know that renho speaks with a snakes tongue.....so anything she says is more than likely just the opposite....

[Altruist]

I agree Klaas, PVDS posses no character, ethics & has sacrificed what bit of humanity he may have ever had.  Scum.

[klaasend]

And another thing.  I'm not against the DUTCH, but I am against the DUTCH people directly involved in this case.  I am also against the Arubans that would rather turn a blind eye to what happened for the sake of tourism. 

I'm against ANYONE that bashes Natalee or her family and defends JPK2 and any others in Aruba involved in this case. 

....end of rant

[San]

PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT DID PERFORM AS A JUDGE IN ARUBA

"Paul van der Sloot is a judge-in-training, serving a three-year term on the bench that allows him to hear a limited number of cases."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159970,00.html

Judge or no judge, IMO Paul VDS is involved at least in the coverup of what happened to Natalee that night.  "He will do anything to protect his son".  His son that was known to have anger problems, the one who killed his own dog and blamed it on a friend.  The son that obviously ruled the household and did whatever he wanted.  The son who stole from his mother.  The sociopath that harmed Natalee.

PVDS is scum for protecting his son.

I agree Klaas.

Natalee was in the Van der Sloot home that night and Paulus saw what his son did.

[Destiny]

And another thing.  I'm not against the DUTCH, but I am against the DUTCH people directly involved in this case.  I am also against the Arubans that would rather turn a blind eye to what happened for the sake of tourism. 

I'm against ANYONE that bashes Natalee or her family and defends JPK2 and any others in Aruba involved in this case. 

....end of rant

Klaas....have I told You....You're Cute when You Rant

Dest

[Auntiem]

     

     Can somebody please tell me why we have to put up with Ramm?

Auntiem,

I know you disagree with Ramm being on this board but there are others who are interested in what he has to say.  If it is bothering you that much please scroll past his posts.

From what I have seen he has been respectable towards the people on here and answering the questions they ask of him.

Thanks.

San

thanks San.....I have been keeping pretty quiet...I know...big surprise....I made the mistake of venturing over to the S&S thread and asked what I thought was a reasonable question....got my had slapped...WHEW!!  Will not venture over there again! then I come over here and people are complaining about others.....is it a full moon....I may not agree with what everyone thinks....or says...but unless they are knocking Natalee or Tim Miller....I respect their right to say what they think..some I just don't read....so far it's working....it's been a tough 2 and 1/4 years for all of us....so perhaps we are just a little sensitive....let's give each other some space...JMO of course

I will "listen" to ANYONE with an opinion as long as it made respectfully. It is VERY important to have opposing views -- if only for us to reference what we need to correct or combat out there. Instead of castigating Ramm for past comments -- let's be open to the fact that some people's opinions/behavior CAN change over time once they truly see things unfold. That doesn't mean  we have to "accept"  everything he says. ------------------"Trust - but Verify" -RR







 DIDN'T I HEAR THAT A LONG TIME AGO ON ANOTHER BLOG???????

[SunnyinTX]

O/T - didn't we have a sticky with the email addys of all the news media??  Or do I need to get off the Coconut Creme???  If we do..please direct me to it....if we don't (I'll have another glass) and anyone has them please post them...I am fuming over Obama's 'spiritual advisor Wright's (see front page) remark about Natalee.....so it's time to blast the media once again about this rascist A$$Bite!!

[Easywriter]

Klass wrote -

Exactly - that photo has to have been taken in the Netherlands.  Wonder if the Sloots still own a home there or if that was the home of a relative?
~~~~

I've always wondered if the VDS still have the 'estate' that he defended for IIRC 20 years to prevent the construction of a new road, for the purpose of safety.

Never found out what happened to that property.  Was it entailed?  Part of an inheritance?  Titled?

How large?  Value?  Lost for taxes?  Who owns it now?

I wonder some times why some describe them as average, when they had an 'estate' in Holland to defend.

IIRC, the road was build elsewhere.

Go to this link and enter van der sloot in the text search box.  It shoud take you to the case, which gives you a pretty good description of what took place.  There were 15 parties to the suit.  Be sure to check all the boxes under HUDOC Collection before you search.

http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/search.asp?skin=hudoc-en

[sleddogs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hk2RSLlfQM

  

[KarmaRoundUp]

Good morning Monkeys
Ramm,do you know why Paulus did not make it through the full judge training or what would be good reasons why a trainee judge fails?

that kind of information is never made public, but most likely he was booted because he did not make the cut. He was not proper judicial material. The reason for that are mostly professional but there could be a personal element to that as well.

His study results could have been poor. His practical exams could have been crap. His mentors in the Netherlands might have been doubtful whether or not he had the personality of being a judge (IMHO Paul seems to have a bit of a spine-problem, or should I say the lack of a spine).

Fact is that far before his 3 year tenure was up he was booted for not making the grade.

Thanks Ramm
Good evening Monkeys
Do you know when his 3 year tenure was up,the date?

[KarmaRoundUp]

Now back to the plot. The Arubans are way over their heads and now the boycott is affected the Dutch, who now have to help support the criminal dirt of Aruba. The Dutch knowing the big picture send in KLPD to hopefully appease the Boycotters. This does not work but the appearance of searches and continued investigation shows some that they may be serious. Myself, I think this is all for show. The case is already made and evidence collected so no need for this except for show. KLPD leaves an now wait for the DEA and Dutch corruption police to do their thing which will turn Aruba on its ear and put a hurtin' on Chavez. I think Aruba is no longer in the loop and that the powerful on hte island know their time is coming. I think the remaining KLPD on the island are their to keep tabs on people so when the round up begins it will go smoothly.
  When all this hits the sad truth of Natalee will be known but it will not be the big headline. JOran and the responsible people will be fried but they are not the main course.
  This is just my thoughts, I am sure I am missing something but to me it makes sense. Too much silence going on for nothing to be happening. Thanks for reading.

I would just like to say that the KLPD is not a for show organization. They are there for a reason and that reason is investigating this case.

And although Aruba has had strong negative effect from the boycott does not mean that the Netherlands has been affecting our trade or tourism relationship with the US.

I wish those dumb Arubans would have asked for our help earlier/accepted our offers of help earlier but they are too arrogant to see the noses on their faces (the government that is) or because they had something to hide (the ALE that is).

Either way they ran this case into the ground and then come crying for the Netherlands to come to their aid. I hope the KLPD can rescue the case from the jaws of defeat (a defeat created by the incompetence or worse of the ALE) because Natalee and her family DESERVE the truth and DESERVE justice.

I'm sorry but I'm not going to believe that those"dumb arubans"held this case up for 27 months just because they were too stupid to ask for help of the KLPD.Who is in charge of the KLPD?

[San]

O/T - didn't we have a sticky with the email addys of all the news media??  Or do I need to get off the Coconut Creme???  If we do..please direct me to it....if we don't (I'll have another glass) and anyone has them please post them...I am fuming over Obama's 'spiritual advisor Wright's (see front page) remark about Natalee.....so it's time to blast the media once again about this rascist A$$Bite!!

Yes we did have a thread Sunny.  I can't find it.  I think I remember someone posting a list of them again but I forgot who it was.

[klaasend]

O/T - didn't we have a sticky with the email addys of all the news media??  Or do I need to get off the Coconut Creme???  If we do..please direct me to it....if we don't (I'll have another glass) and anyone has them please post them...I am fuming over Obama's 'spiritual advisor Wright's (see front page) remark about Natalee.....so it's time to blast the media once again about this rascist A$$Bite!!

Yes we did have a thread Sunny.  I can't find it.  I think I remember someone posting a list of them again but I forgot who it was.

Sunny - here is the thread:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=468.0

[blah]

And another thing.  I'm not against the DUTCH, but I am against the DUTCH people directly involved in this case.  I am also against the Arubans that would rather turn a blind eye to what happened for the sake of tourism. 

I'm against ANYONE that bashes Natalee or her family and defends JPK2 and any others in Aruba involved in this case. 

....end of rant

no no no, dont stop now, your just get'n'er goin !!!

[San]

O/T - didn't we have a sticky with the email addys of all the news media??  Or do I need to get off the Coconut Creme???  If we do..please direct me to it....if we don't (I'll have another glass) and anyone has them please post them...I am fuming over Obama's 'spiritual advisor Wright's (see front page) remark about Natalee.....so it's time to blast the media once again about this rascist A$$Bite!!

Yes we did have a thread Sunny.  I can't find it.  I think I remember someone posting a list of them again but I forgot who it was.

Sunny - here is the thread:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=468.0

Whew I was still looking and decided to take a peak to see if someone found it.  I should have know better Klaas.

[greeneyedlady]

Klass wrote -

Exactly - that photo has to have been taken in the Netherlands.  Wonder if the Sloots still own a home there or if that was the home of a relative?
~~~~

I've always wondered if the VDS still have the 'estate' that he defended for IIRC 20 years to prevent the construction of a new road, for the purpose of safety.

Never found out what happened to that property.  Was it entailed?  Part of an inheritance?  Titled?

How large?  Value?  Lost for taxes?  Who owns it now?

I wonder some times why some describe them as average, when they had an 'estate' in Holland to defend.

IIRC, the road was build elsewhere.

Go to this link and enter van der sloot in the text search box.  It shoud take you to the case, which gives you a pretty good description of what took place.  There were 15 parties to the suit.  Be sure to check all the boxes under HUDOC Collection before you search.

http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/search.asp?skin=hudoc-en

Thanks Easy:

Here are a few more thoughts and questions about the VDS's these are from a friend that's not registered here. Hope no one minds, I think they're good questions myself.


I've often wondered if they have some other kind of connections, related to class, nobility.  Are they common?  Or, perhaps a few relatives removed from a title?

I just find it hard to believe that someone could hold up construction of a road for 20 years, and be a 'nobody'.

I've often wondered if there was a connection on Anita's side of the family.

Many of the early pro-Joran posters seemed to view the world and those in it from an 'elevated' position.

They did not appear to sit with the common people.

My opinions of course.

[Rammstein]

I'm sorry but I'm not going to believe that those"dumb arubans"held this case up for 27 months just because they were too stupid to ask for help of the KLPD.Who is in charge of the KLPD?

one would like to that that was an easy question, it is not however.

The minister of the interior is responsible for the having of a police force, staffing it, manning it, providing all the equipment and paying for it.

The minister of Justice however is responsible for assigning the police to their duties.

The KLPD is the national branch of the police department. It is led by the "Korpsleiding" (head of departments). The chief of the KLPD is Peter van Zundert, he has 3 deputies, a chief of police, a chief of detectives and a director operational services.

They have 13 separate units:

1. traffic police
2. waterway police
3. railway police
4. airspace/airport police
5. animal unit (police dogs and police horses)
6. operational services and co-ordination
7. royal and diplomatic protection unit
8. logistical services
9. intelligence unit
10. international co-operation department
11. unit specialist detecting operations (the department that supposedly bugged the VDS and Kalpoe homes)
12. National detectives unit/serious crimes unit
13. special interventions unit

Too stubborn might be a bitter word when it comes to Arubans. The KLPD does have some officers in the area but they are their as temporary placements and not working in the regular police forces of Aruba and the Antilles.

Any operation across the border (because as the National Police Force it doesn't often work outside of the Netherlands) like the ones the Arubans asked would almost certainly have to be approved by the minister of the Interiors and Justice.

[greeneyedlady]

Jane posted this at BFN, don't know if you've all seen it or not:

As we know, a hearing was yesterday and though unaware of outcome, I spoke to Atticus, who has been exceptionally busy at work. Though is not familiar with California courts, she feels there is a strong possibility the case will be dismissed (with or without prejudice, which doesn't matter at this point since it brings the same result) given how uncooperative the Kalpoes have been during discovery.



The Judge has no authority to dismiss the case per a motion to compel further responses (discovery).  The Judge can deny the motion to compel; order the discovery produced in whole or in part; order it produced under certain restrictions, etc.  It is very rare for a California judge to issue terminating sanctions based on discovery abuses.  First, there has to be a finding of willful abuse of the discovery statutes.  Second, there has to be intentional and willful non-compliance with one or more prior court orders compelling the discovery at issue.  Third, and most significant, there has to be a specific motion filed for an order RE terminating sanctions based on a failure to comply with discover and discovery orders.  Extremely rare sanction in California.  As far as I can tell there has been no terminating sanctions motion filed.  Further, as far as I can tell there has been no request for monetary sanctions based on a willful failure to provide discovery.  Therefore, all the pleadings tell us at this point is that there exists a legitimate discovery dispute which the parties could not resolve themselves.


Uhoh ...

Listen, I short cut Atticus' statement ... my phone keeps ringing and I needed to quickly post and cut to the chaise.

Bease, yes, Atticus mentioned order to compel but said that is tricky since the Kalpoes have stated they to not intend to release certain documents.

Gigi, it is my understanding the defendants have filed a motion to dismiss and that was on the table for yesterday's hearing.


Case Number: BC363201
DEEPAK KALPOE VS PHILLIP C MCGRAW
Filing Date: 12/13/2006
Case Type: Defamation (Slander/Libel) (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Pending
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Future Hearings
08/08/2007 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Compel ((2)2) Case Management Conference;3) Motion to Dismiss;)


Kalpoe and McGraw have been going back and forth on the issue of producing documents. Kalpoe Chicago attorneys say Kalpoes don't have documents to produce and even secured a letter from the Aruba prosecuter saying they will not release documents, however it appears that the Kalpoe Aruba attorney has said documents. Also, there is quite a bit back and forth over Aruba law related to  documents.

Though I have reviewed the filings I purchased and posted, I am not an attorney and by no means consider myself an expert and to be honest, I was distracted by uploading documents when speaking to Atticus over the phone last night. I welcome and encourage both of you and anyone else who can clarify in discussion. I would like to better understand ... please help out!

--------


Case Number: BC363201
DEEPAK KALPOE VS PHILLIP C MCGRAW
Filing Date: 12/13/2006
Case Type: Defamation (Slander/Libel) (General Jurisdiction)
Status: Pending
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Future Hearings
08/24/2007 at 08:30 am in department 69 at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Motion to Compel (2) Case Management Conference)

[KarmaRoundUp]

Someone sent me this in a pm:

"Frank and Moon" googled, brings back just a few things -

Moon'Doc

http://www.hermanfrank.com/

Old German Hard Rock band.

http://www.myspace.com/hermanfrank

I often wonder about the music connection of people in the case.  Was PVDS ever involved in music?  I always think he played something.

Also, the "Natalee Holloway Forensic" by Roly Roper has a music connection as well.
~~~~
Buckeye-some more posts for you:

Ah Moonshadow, you want us Americans to fall silent. Yes, so do some our countries.  You want the American cowboys to go away, and I think we should honor that. You only wanted our money anyway. Plenty of places stateside to spend the money and boost our own economy.  The government disinformation can then pound sand.
Posted by: angelaberdine | Aug 3, 2005 8:30:36 AM

It's easy to pound your chest on a discussion board and cite rumors as fuel for vitriol... but is actuality unless you put something behind it, it's just empty ugly words.
Posted by: MoonShadow | August 3, 2005 08:27 AM

a few things furman said last night is exactly what ive been thinking from the  start..joran states we dropped her off at the HI she got out tripped and fell. so we all know the alibi is phony but in every lie theres a bit of truth. all he had to say was we dropped her off. period. end of statement. but he didnt. he added that she tripped and fell. why does he say she tripped and fell? because in the event they find her body the tripped and fell bologna will explain away the physical marks she may have from being assaulted.i.e head injuries bruises etc.so knowing that he later admits that he never dropped her off there. he gave us a definitive answer to the question of was she assaulted or come into some form of physical harm not just a accidental drowning. also it shows that he wasnt 100% confident that the body was hid all that well. already afraid of how he was going to explain away physical harm done to natalee. he was fearful from the beginning that the body would be found. afterall if youve taken the body off the island or have hid it so well he wouldnt have mentioned anything about her falling because he'd feel why bother they arent going to have the body to disprove anything i say. again it all points to no grand conspiracy involving druglords or sex traders but a couple scared young wannabe gangsters punks w/help from poppa after the fact.
Posted by: delgriffth | Aug 3, 2005 8:47:02 AM

Aruba..wake up and smell the coffee..this is not going away....the parents of Aruba have sown to the wind...and now their own children are the whirlwind harvest...Wonder how many Arubans will greet Beth and Jug at the airport?
Posted by: Nuke Aruba | Aug 3, 2005 8:50:33 AM

Dolores, don't let these posters dark sarcasm and empty words change your attitude towards American tourists. They do not represent the true, caring and logical Americans that visit our island every year.
I still greet tourists with a big smile on my face, I still help them out as much as I can, I would still go out of my way to make a tourist feel more comfortable. That is just the way we are. Arubans don't need to depend on tourism to treat tourists like kings, we simply like them.
Posted by: Disappointed Arubian | Aug 3, 2005 8:55:37 AM

delgriffth,
I agree - his story later changes to he left her alive at the Marriot beach - but he had sex with her.
Then to buried at the fisherman's hut then to Deepak raped and buried her He shuts up once he knows that the body will not be found - when PVDS is being held also.
So - what do you have Natalee was raped by at least Joran and Deepak (alibi's would support the DNA evidence)
Natalee was killed by a blow to the head (supported by an Alibi)
Natalee was at one time buried near the fisherman's hut (maybe at the pond - supported by an alibi)
Nothing after that - because he no longer has to account for anything that may be discoved on Hatalee as HE IS SURE that her body will not be found.
Posted by: linda | Aug 3, 2005 8:59:37 AM

it rankles my nerves that people from Aruba dont see 2 people were involved.
2 people involved 1 came back and 1 didnt
1 didnt led to an Aruba police investigation
Aruba police investigation led to a coverup from the word GO.
with the coverup came public scrutiny.
with public scrutiny came MSM
MSM led to blogs and searching for what else is hidden.
People of Aruba, the truth and the end of this story lies with the 1 person who came back.
Why arent the People of Aruba asking that 1 person to tell the TRUTH.
Why arent the People of Aruba bashing the 1 person for bringing shame, dishonor, bad publicity, and damper on the tourism which is the main industry of Aruba?
If not now then when?
That 1 person who came back is JORAN VAN DER SLOOT?
WHY ARENT THE PEOPLE OF THE ARUBA BASHING HIM?
People with nothing to hide hide nothing
Posted by: seedyrum | Aug 3, 2005 8:59:55 AM
~~~~
Also an interesting question from this poster is:

When did Joran 'shut up'?

What was happening in Aruba at that time?

Very interesting question.Did Joran finally shut up when they detained Paulus?I don't think so but I know he was shutting up royally when the special Dutch interrogators came.

[KarmaRoundUp]

It does seem to be a peculiar system for judges.  Is that unique to the Antilles, or is that the process throughout the Netherlands?  Is that some type of buddy plan, or do people need a particular educational background and work experience?

In the Netherlands there are 2 ways to become a judge.

1. You graduate with a law degree from a dutch university and you apply for the RAIO school. This is a post university education in which people are trained to become judges or DA's. It is a 6 year education after which you can choose to become a DA or a judge.

2. if you have graduated with a law degree from a dutch university and after that had extensive and high grade judicial experience as for example lawyer you can apply to the fast track judicial training program. In this 2 or 3 year training scheme you will be trained to become a judge.

To qualify you have to submit a formal job application letter to become a judge. Then the selection committee will review the letters and there will be a full review of their prior records, their previous employers and his credentials. Then comes a psychological evaluation to ensure the candidate has the character trades associated with a judge.

If someone passes that then there is the selection interview with the national selection committee and if a candidate passes that he will be sent to the review committee of the Court he wants to apply to for them to evaluate the candidate.

If he passes all of that he will be appointed and his training to become a judge will start.

Hmmm,but wasn't Paulus already a judge in training?Are you saying he didn't finish his training?