Lively Case Discussion #478 6/23 - 6/24/2006

[Jacqueline]

Besides knowing the size of the belt, please tell me they did DNA on this belt to see whether it had ever been handled by JVDS.


Yep - that's what happened... no test - I think they threw the flipping thing away.  No biggie - it's just lost like all the crap they send to Holland for testing.

By the way - howdy Jackie.  Seems like your poor friends are going thru the same hell.  So sorry.  Hopefully things will get resolved shortly.  They are in my prayers.

Thanks for the well wishes.

Friday was the 10th time the hearing has been delayed.  This time cause the judge was ill.

It's a nightmare.

Darn the only judge in the whole country?  I will Hannitize him!  

Yeah, and I get the feeling that the Judge and the Prose and Defense are all probably in this together.  

I don't know Jack.....LOL....

But I smell a rat with this whole case, just like the natalee case.

[mrs. red]

Besides knowing the size of the belt, please tell me they did DNA on this belt to see whether it had ever been handled by JVDS.

Also, with the Columbian making these allegations, has Tacopina refuted this info about his client? I don't remember hearing him do so.

Remember, its not always what someone says, but what they don't say.

Excellent point, Red.  Not a word out of tacoPinhead or any of the many vdS attorneys or spokespeople.  Where's Julia Renho?

On her knees somewhere.  

Did I say that?  

You owe me a new monitor...LMAO...

[Frijole]

After all the talking Taco did earlier, and all the interviews Joran was so eager to give, the silence now is deafening.  By the way, where are they?  Where in the world is Joran?  Anyone know?

Probably travelling Europe attending the World Cup matches.  The little axx.

[crazybabyborg]

got it, coming up...............

[Tylergal]

After all the talking Taco did earlier, and all the interviews Joran was so eager to give, the silence now is deafening.  By the way, where are they?  Where in the world is Joran?  Anyone know?

Widget has his seat, row and box number at the World Soccer Cup.  I heard a big fight broke out there today between the Brits and the Germans.    And they call us cowboys when the winner of a bowl game tears down the goal post.

[Jacqueline]

Besides knowing the size of the belt, please tell me they did DNA on this belt to see whether it had ever been handled by JVDS.

Also, with the Columbian making these allegations, has Tacopina refuted this info about his client? I don't remember hearing him do so.

Remember, its not always what someone says, but what they don't say.

Excellent point, Red.  Not a word out of tacoPinhead or any of the many vdS attorneys or spokespeople.  Where's Julia Renho?

On her knees somewhere.  

Did I say that?  

No way did my Pasta Fragiole Monkeyhead say that!  
   

[whytegirl]

Hi,

I am still going over the bag pics and I cannot for the life of me see a face.  Help please?

Me either!

Hey Peach!!  How are you doin'?

I am so frustrated, I might go for another eye exam.  I don't see what the FPP's are seeing.  Funny thing is, when I posted my "face" pic on the rock painting videos nobody saw what I saw either-well very few did!  I don't have the time nor enough savvy to pull a better image that was a bit zoomed in.

[Kat_Gram]

Besides knowing the size of the belt, please tell me they did DNA on this belt to see whether it had ever been handled by JVDS.

Also, with the Columbian making these allegations, has Tacopina refuted this info about his client? I don't remember hearing him do so.

Remember, its not always what someone says, but what they don't say.

Ohhh --- very good. So true.  He's been real quiet.

Even tho Joe T was doing this Pro Bono, he might have run out of money.
I don't know who was paying his fees, but someone was. Guy like Joe
has to pay the bills like the rest of us and his bills are probaby 10 x or more of mine. Can't spend all his time stiring up chit that has no substance.    
I don't have much faith in this latest witness. Came on to the scene way too late. His story contradicts earlier " evidence ". or things we know. Or things we think we know.  Jossy has spoken to this guy and we have to have the faith in Jossy.

[Hotshot]

Anna,

How did you find out that two security guards jumped off the high rise hotels last year?  What was said about it and were there any reasons for them to do so? I'm suspicious. Do you think/know if they were in some kind of trouble and were pushed or forced to jump?

As far as I'm concerned, there are much easier and less dramatic ways to commit suicide. Jumping off a building is drastic (remember people jumping out of the Twin Towers on September 11) as opposed to overdosing on drugs, since drugs abound on Aruba. Also, how about a gun? 1-2-3 and it's over.

Please let me know what information you might have about this.

Thank you very much.

Louise

Louise,
I read that here on SM when we were compiling a list of suspicious deaths in Aruba.  Someone also posted a narrative by tourist staying at a hotel where it happened and they said they were surprised to learn it was the second time something like this had happened.

I don't have any more information other than what was said here at that time.  Maybe someone else remembers more??

Anna

Anna, I found that information at an Aruban site that had "monthly happenigns."  The site was in blue and magenta if I recall with a "happy sunny face" on it.  The two security guards jumped to their deaths a few months apart, while another committed suicide on the beach by drinking poison.

OK, I remember the guy who drank poison!!!  But I didn't think he was a security guard.

[Frijole]

Besides knowing the size of the belt, please tell me they did DNA on this belt to see whether it had ever been handled by JVDS.

Also, with the Columbian making these allegations, has Tacopina refuted this info about his client? I don't remember hearing him do so.

Remember, its not always what someone says, but what they don't say.

Excellent point, Red.  Not a word out of tacoPinhead or any of the many vdS attorneys or spokespeople.  Where's Julia Renho?

On her knees somewhere.  

Did I say that?  

You owe me a new monitor...LMAO...

No problem - it was worth it!

[AZLady]

I really have to believe JQK has his eyes on him.  He has to, doesn't he?  I mean, he can't lose sight of this guy...

[Peaches]

Frijole!

Some friends of mine are heading to NE to visit relative.  He is going to stuff his golfbag with Dorothy Lynch and bring it home for me!! Does that rock or what!!!    We discussed the idea of his checking an empty cooler so he could bring back RUNZAS!  (Geez, am I a Nebraska girl at heart or what!)

I'm distressed that Patsy Ramsey died.  It's too scary for me.

Missed all the shows last nite and tonite.  I don't see anything in the bag pics except a bag.  I just want something to happen for Beth and Dave's sake.  They've been tortured long enough.

[mrs. red]

After all the talking Taco did earlier, and all the interviews Joran was so eager to give, the silence now is deafening.  By the way, where are they?  Where in the world is Joran?  Anyone know?

Widget has his seat, row and box number at the World Soccer Cup.  I heard a big fight broke out there today between the Brits and the Germans.    And they call us cowboys when the winner of a bowl game tears down the goal post.

Right??  Red and I had a whole conversation about that and how much more sophisticated Europeans are... NOT...LOL

[Anna]

[

Louise,
I read that here on SM when we were compiling a list of suspicious deaths in Aruba.  Someone also posted a narrative by tourist staying at a hotel where it happened and they said they were surprised to learn it was the second time something like this had happened.

I don't have any more information other than what was said here at that time.  Maybe someone else remembers more??

Anna

Anna, I found that information at an Aruban site that had "monthly happenigns."  The site was in blue and magenta if I recall with a "happy sunny face" on it.  The two security guards jumped to their deaths a few months apart, while another committed suicide on the beach by drinking poison.

I really wish I had saved that whole thread. It wasn't all that long.  Getagrip helped on it, too, I believe.  I have thought back to it so many times.

At the time you posted about the security guards, we didn't know of any Visibility Team or Faux Polis or whatever they are.  We would have delved deeper into this and found out for whom they worked, names, etc.  So while it was strange when you posted it, in light of what we know now, it is much stranger.

For example, were they involved in any recovery processes??     People are dropping like flies all over Fecalruba!!  Pun intended--get it?   flies??

.

[Tylergal]

Anna,

How did you find out that two security guards jumped off the high rise hotels last year?  What was said about it and were there any reasons for them to do so? I'm suspicious. Do you think/know if they were in some kind of trouble and were pushed or forced to jump?

As far as I'm concerned, there are much easier and less dramatic ways to commit suicide. Jumping off a building is drastic (remember people jumping out of the Twin Towers on September 11) as opposed to overdosing on drugs, since drugs abound on Aruba. Also, how about a gun? 1-2-3 and it's over.

Please let me know what information you might have about this.

Thank you very much.

Louise

Louise,
I read that here on SM when we were compiling a list of suspicious deaths in Aruba.  Someone also posted a narrative by tourist staying at a hotel where it happened and they said they were surprised to learn it was the second time something like this had happened.

I don't have any more information other than what was said here at that time.  Maybe someone else remembers more??

Anna

Anna, I found that information at an Aruban site that had "monthly happenigns."  The site was in blue and magenta if I recall with a "happy sunny face" on it.  The two security guards jumped to their deaths a few months apart, while another committed suicide on the beach by drinking poison.

OK, I remember the guy who drank poison!!!  But I didn't think he was a security guard.

That's what we are talking about:  Security guards.  The other two who jumped to their deaths were listed on that website I was referencing, but it disappeared.  I posted that information here about December and subsequently that site has been taken down.  There were two other security guards who "jumped to their deaths" from high balconies prior to that in separate instances.

[Jacqueline]

After all the talking Taco did earlier, and all the interviews Joran was so eager to give, the silence now is deafening.  By the way, where are they?  Where in the world is Joran?  Anyone know?

Widget has his seat, row and box number at the World Soccer Cup.  I heard a big fight broke out there today between the Brits and the Germans.    And they call us cowboys when the winner of a bowl game tears down the goal post.

Right??  Red and I had a whole conversation about that and how much more sophisticated Europeans are... NOT...LOL

GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!

BEST PART OF SOCCER IS WHEN THAT DUDE SCREAMS!

[crazybabyborg]

pg 75

"Art Wood, who had been continuously searching the island, found a belt on the beach near the lighthouse. It was a significant find because it looked exactly like the one that Joran had used on his web site to simulate choking one of his friends. Looking at the picture made me cringe. Joran had a smile on his face while his "victim" looked like he was in pain.................................. In the end, the police decided the belt was too old and weathered to be part of the case, so it was not tested for DNA. Since the belt on Joran's web site also looked old, it did not make sense to me to diregard its significance as evidence."

[Frijole]

Frijole!

Some friends of mine are heading to NE to visit relative.  He is going to stuff his golfbag with Dorothy Lynch and bring it home for me!! Does that rock or what!!!    We discussed the idea of his checking an empty cooler so he could bring back RUNZAS!  (Geez, am I a Nebraska girl at heart or what!)

I'm distressed that Patsy Ramsey died.  It's too scary for me.

Missed all the shows last nite and tonite.  I don't see anything in the bag pics except a bag.  I just want something to happen for Beth and Dave's sake.  They've been tortured long enough.

How awesome!  Did you know you can get uncooked Runzas now?  I used to do it when I lived in FL.  Freeze and then put in cooler for flight.  Yummmm.  Another fav was bringing back the Fairbury hotdogs they serve at the stadium.  

If you ever need something shipped - just let me know!  

BTW, glad you are feeling better and the tests are coming out positive for you.  You are an inspiration to us all.  You keep the faith and don't worry about Patsy.  I think God wanted to take her to Jon Benet.  He wants you here with us monkeys!  

[Peaches]

For months I have wanted to know why Interpol isn't involved here.  I just don't understand how this little pee-waddling island in the middle of nowhere gets away with treating a tourist on their island in this manner.  The lies are incredible.  Makes me sick.

[San]

FROM THE LINEUP – Kimberly Guilfoyle

Guests – Jossy Mansur, Beth Twitty & Dave Holloway

Kimberly – Aruban authorities question a man who claims to have witnessed what happened on the beach the night she vanished.  Joining me now is editor and chief of El Diaro Jossy Mansur.  Jossy has spoken exclusively to the alleged witness and has been on top of the case from the beginning.  Alright give us the latest, apparently this witness felt comfortable talking to you what do you know.

Jossy – Well he came to me through a lady friend of his.  In the beginning I didn’t want to meet him because I’ve seen so many people come in and going out with any important information but then I attended him.  He came and told me the following story that he was home that night he had some kind of discussion with his wife over the phone his wife is in Columbia he is a Columbian illegal alien in Aruba and then he jumped into his car and went to a place where he used to go with his wife on the beach that’s way to the North of the Marriot and past the lighthouse and there he parked his car behind some bushes.  He feel asleep and was awakened a while later by a woman screaming no no and the F word twice and then the voices ceased the voice of the lady screaming ceased.  He got out of his car went into the bushes and saw this young man over the body of a woman.  He was busy now opening the trunk of his car he was taking something out in which he wrapped this body in.  He took the body and waded out into the ocean first and then swam with it dragging it along for quite some distance let go and then swam back.  He put on his clothes again (Jossy said this is this man telling me now) put on his clothes and got into the car.

Kimberly – So there are only two people there, the woman he’s claiming to be Natalee Holloway what did he describe in term of the physical appearance of the male?

Jossy – The male he described to me as tall, white, light hair and afterwards he told me that it was Joran he recognized Joran from the video tapes that were on television and then the pictures in the paper and everything else.  He didn’t recognize him that same night but he did recognize him from the days following his witnessing of this happened that he told me about.

Kimberly – Any description of the vehicle he saw?

Jossy – No because he claims that it was a dark vehicle.  He didn’t know the time either because he didn’t have a watch with him.  But his story seems to fit into the pattern of this case in many ways.

Kimberly – So you’ve talked to so many people in this case and in the investigation do you believe him and apparently there is a piece of evidence what is that piece of evidence.

Jossy – He says that there are two pieces of evidence but he didn’t tell me that when I interviewed him at the Diario in my office.  I met with him the next day at the spot he took me to the exact spot we met there and he showed me where all this happened and he told me that when day broke a while later that he was there he found a condom on the floor picked it up took it away and a piece of cloth that he claims the mother could recognize this belonging to Natalee.

Kimberly – And it’s your understanding that these items have been turned over to authorities the prosecutor.  Does she believe this story?

Jossy – I think she does believe this story to a certain extent yes.  Because afterwards the police picked him up brought him in and about two months ago and have had him since.  I don’t know whether it is in protective custody.  I would believe that because if it was for deportation because he was illegal they would have done that immediately.

Dave by phone and Beth from Birmingham

Kimberly – Beth I’m going to start with you is this the break in the case that you’ve been waiting for?

Beth – Well Kimberly we’ve had to sit on this information now for about two months so it a little frustrating as to as to why they’re still holding him if it’s for his protection or is it is fear that he will flee.  You know we’re just really kind of ready to get some answers from KJ as to where she thinks we will move forward from now.

Kimberly – Do you tend to believe this story you’ve heard about this story?  You’ve heard about this since April is that right you knew about it.

Beth – Right we’ve know about this for about the past two months and you know it’s hard me to step over the line of whether or not I believe him or not of course you know we just have never been able to interview him but what we’re getting from even KJ was conveying to John Kelly is she is inclined to believe that he is telling the truth.

Kimberly – Alright let’s bring in Dave.  Dave you guys had a private investigator Art Wood go and actually meet with this individual.  What did he tell you about him in terms of his credibility?

Dave – Well Art did not believe the individual and I think that some of that may be due to the fact that he did not speak English he’s a Spanish speaking guy.  Art has some reservations as far as his credibility.  The guy came forward seeking the reward we have a $250,000 reward out for information leading to where Natalee is so maybe he’s seeking the reward.

Kimberly – Sure but someone could come forward right Beth and have accurate information.  I mean the reward is there to encourage people to do right thing.  If they get the money I’m sure you guys would be happy to turn it over to them if you get the clue that you need.

Beth – Oh more than happy to Kimberly and what’s even more puzzling though to me is as to why they are detaining this Columbian witness I mean they’re bound to have come to some conclusion now as whether he is a credible witness.

Kimberly – What bothers me to both of you this has been going on for so long.  April you guys were aware of it, KJ’s aware of it, now this guys in custody as a witness for a month.  What does this tell you about the strength of the information?

Beth – Well I would be inclined to believe that they’re coming something that he is somewhat creditable and has information.  Like I said I just don’t know why would you detain this individual as a witness for this long of period of time.  I mean if he were really going to bring no bearing to the case in the past when we had someone come forward he’s gone before the judge of instruction and defense and prosecuting attorney to give sworn statements so we just don’t know where this is going with this one.

Kimberly – Dave I’ve got 15 seconds left here we’re heard that there is actual physical evidence perhaps some cloth and/or DNA evidence a condom used do you know anything about that?  Do you expect that to get results.

Dave – Yes there is two pieces from what he understands.  He understands there was a pipe or a piece of metal use to weight her down and I think the police have recovered that and from what he understands they are doing forensic evidence on it.  The condom and all that kind of other stuff I don’t know where they stand on that or even if it’s been turned in.