Lively Case Discussion #483 6/29/2006

[Kat_Gram]

.
Well, Deepak was upset about the gardener witness because he had the fit and threw the dominoes all over the room.  I don't think he would be upset if he was not seen.


And that just blows any time line I have ever had right out of the water, too.  

Deepak's behavior is very suspicious, but I still think the gardener's story is probably bogus.  Not to sound too CSI, but people lie, evidence doesn't.  And it's very hard to reconcile Deepak being at the pond at 2:30 with the computer and phone record evidence.  Not only is Deepak logging on at 2:00, but at 3:15 you have Joran sending him casual "I'm home" and "What's up" TMs, indicating that at that point Deepak did not know anything was wrong.  The only realistic way I see for the gardener's story to be true is if it was actually Satish in the car not Deepak.  But that doesn't seem likely to me, why would Deepak go home and let Joran and Satish have all the fun with Natalee. If Deepak was home at 2:00 than I think Satish probably was too.  

Based on electronic records and polis car tape I have come down to two scenarios:

1) 2K are innocent, Joran alone raped and murdered Natalee after 2K left him alone with her on beach  

2) Joran raped Natalee on beach, then after learning from Joran that he'd left her there, 2K came back and raped, murdered, and disposed of her without Joran's knowledge

Ok that part has always struck me as odd... guys don't do that kind of thing... send TM's they are home... I think he was saying she's gone... or something to that effect and in words that could not be held against him... JMO

Satish could have been the one at home at the Kalpoes.
Deepak uses Joran's phone.
It is just the phone that can be placed and the computer at the Kalpoes.
Satish is the one who has school the next day. Deepak starts work late.
Don't know what Freddy does.

ps...

The girls Natalee was with in the Casino, they thought Joran was an exchange student from Holland. They was no overt contact between Joran and Natalee in the casino or at C & C's.
No one " saw "  Natalee get in the car.
The reason they were on to Joran so quick is because Beth looked at the videos in the casino within 24 hours.

[Windsor]

and could Paulus' comment that he picked "them' up at 4am be Freddy?

I'm very suspicious of Freddy

[mrs. red]

was the exchange student from Holland on vacation part of the we did this 20x?  was going to CnC's 30 minutes before closing time part of the 20x.... a shot of 151 laced with ghb?   tourist girls that got raped and were too ashamed to come forward...and left and prayed no one was the wiser?

I mean... he didn't talk to Natalee in the Casino... and in 30 minutes she goes from dancing with her friend(s) to waving him over, doing belly shots, 151 and finds him so fascinating she wants to leave with him after 30 minutes????? this happened 20x??  then the whole scummy thing starts at CnC's.... IMO

[San]

and could Paulus' comment that he picked "them' up at 4am be Freddy?

I'm very suspicious of Freddy

I'm convinced that Freddy is 100% involved.  Deepak sealed the deal when he said on tape that Freddy needs to tell the truth.  The truth about what?

[Dihannah1]

Sorry if it's been mentioned, I haven't read tonight yet.  But Greta just said a new arrest in Aruba?  coming up soon.

[Windsor]

and could Paulus' comment that he picked "them' up at 4am be Freddy?

I'm very suspicious of Freddy

I'm convinced that Freddy is 100% involved.  Deepak sealed the deal when he said on tape that Freddy needs to tell the truth.  The truth about what?

oh, that's right, San; I had forgotten that; I was just going with my gut that Freddy is involved

and what about Deepak saying "your own father"

to me, that screams involvement before the fact, not just cover up

[Windsor]

Sorry if it's been mentioned, I haven't read tonight yet.  But Greta just said a new arrest in Aruba?  coming up soon.

prolly Jossy; did you read SurfGirl's post on PFN?  sounds like JR to me

[Dihannah1]

klaasend, BTW, is there any word on when we can get our avatars back? They make it much easier to find each other's posts.

Not Klaasend, but I can tell you that they are working on it... A lot... and I miss our avatars too

God Love 'em for all the hard work they do.  It's a shame it's happened so much recently..  Any thoughts of looking into another hosting company?  With better contingency?

[Dihannah1]

Sorry if it's been mentioned, I haven't read tonight yet.  But Greta just said a new arrest in Aruba?  coming up soon.

prolly Jossy; did you read SurfGirl's post on PFN?  sounds like JR to me

I haven't had a chance to read anything, I was just signing on at the same time I was listening to Hannity and Colmes.  Greta came on to say what was coming up on her show.  "New arrest in Aruba".....

[mrs. red]

klaasend, BTW, is there any word on when we can get our avatars back? They make it much easier to find each other's posts.

Not Klaasend, but I can tell you that they are working on it... A lot... and I miss our avatars too

God Love 'em for all the hard work they do.  It's a shame it's happened so much recently..  Any thoughts of looking into another hosting company?  With better contingency?

I have to be honest... when the site crashes, I don't ask too many questions... they get testy with me...      

[terryd270]

The root of everything is Joran, if Joran wasn't there that night we wouldn't be here talking about Natalee..  There were others but Joran is the root and I believe the crime happen at the house.. He isn't scared of his parents or and he is the head of the snake..

I'm curious on what JQK will have to say tonight and my only fear is that Greta will have Julia on too.. There goes my dinner...

[mrs. red]

The root of everything is Joran, if Joran wasn't there that night we wouldn't be here talking about Natalee..  There were others but Joran is the root and I believe the crime happen at the house.. He isn't scared of his parents or and he is the head of the snake..

I'm curious on what JQK will have to say tonight and my only fear is that Greta will have Julia on too.. There goes my dinner...

I want to hear more about the poster from BFN that is saying Jossy????  did i hear that right??

[Windsor]

well, good night, all; gonna get ready to watch Greta

formerly known as GretaRocks

now Windsor

 

[Windsor]

The root of everything is Joran, if Joran wasn't there that night we wouldn't be here talking about Natalee..  There were others but Joran is the root and I believe the crime happen at the house.. He isn't scared of his parents or and he is the head of the snake..

I'm curious on what JQK will have to say tonight and my only fear is that Greta will have Julia on too.. There goes my dinner...

I want to hear more about the poster from BFN that is saying Jossy????  did i hear that right??

Mrs Red, that's how rumors get started; lemme see if I can find the post

[mrs. red]

The root of everything is Joran, if Joran wasn't there that night we wouldn't be here talking about Natalee..  There were others but Joran is the root and I believe the crime happen at the house.. He isn't scared of his parents or and he is the head of the snake..

I'm curious on what JQK will have to say tonight and my only fear is that Greta will have Julia on too.. There goes my dinner...

I want to hear more about the poster from BFN that is saying Jossy????  did i hear that right??

ok after i hit submit and < < 2x... I didn't read that right the first time...      nevermind...

[SunFreak2]

I don't think it was at his house. I think they went to the house to get Freddy. I also think that the intent was to rape.

I think this is what down:
Alana sees Natalee and Joran is walking behing her, not with her.
Deepak circles CnC's 3 times trying to wait out the taxi crowd so they aren't seen with Natalee.  

They drop Satish at home who signs on the internet.

They go to Joran's apartment and get Freddy. They drive to the lighthouse as they wait for the drugs to kick in. Natalee was verbal in the car leaving CnC's and the drugs needed time to work.  But something goes wrong, maybe Natalee is getting sick inthe car.

They drive to the pond to to wash the vomit  away and they are spotted by the Gardener.

They cook up a plan for an alibi, and then drive to the vdS home.  They decide to take Natalee into Joran's apt where they leave her alone for a few minutes.  Joran & Freddie walk Deepak back to the car where they talk about the plan some more.  Joran heading back to the apt catches Natalee on the phone, and starts beating her in a fit of rage and rapes her.  Somehow, he fatally injures her. Maybe he struck her and she fell against something, like a corner of a piece of furniture, injuring her head.  

Joran gets Daddy involved, but Natalee is fatally injured.  She is not given any emergency care and dies. Paulus makes the plans for the disposal of the body. He pays someone to dispose of the body, but they dump her at the rocks instead.

She is found by ALE, and disposed of again.

I think this time she went into the crypts in the cemetary.

In January,  some crypts are destroyed to cover up the breaking into the crypt was Natalee was placed.  Aruba plans to bury her in the dunes and then have the FBI cadaver dogs find her.  But the FBI foils that plan when they refuse to send the dogs b/c ALE won't disclose the source of the mysterious tip.

What they've done with the body now is anyone's guess.

[terryd270]

Winsor what did you do with our GretaRocks?  Give her back...

[Dihannah1]

klaasend, BTW, is there any word on when we can get our avatars back? They make it much easier to find each other's posts.

Not Klaasend, but I can tell you that they are working on it... A lot... and I miss our avatars too

God Love 'em for all the hard work they do.  It's a shame it's happened so much recently..  Any thoughts of looking into another hosting company?  With better contingency?

I have to be honest... when the site crashes, I don't ask too many questions... they get testy with me...      

I completely relate, because that is what I do for a living.  It's a complete bummer!  So they have my sympathy!

[Windsor]

Mrs Red -- below is what SurfChic wrote on PFN; she had only posted two times at this point; that's why I thought it might be JR.  I don't know how to quote, but it's on page 24 of "Carlos the Colombian" thread:

Most everyone here in aruba knew Carlos was lying!!! He was after the reward money. He's got a long record of drug arrests, like the crackhead from the landfill that Jossy believed. He'll be deported after he does his time for his latest offense. They knew he was lying almost immediately because he said he called his wife and it was checked out and it never happened. His story was always changing and was just too sensational to ever be believed. Jacobs and Adolpho called him "Mansur's MANURE!!!" in reference to all the lying witnesses that Jossy creates, intimidates or fabricates. No one here believes anything or anyone remotely tied to Jossy anymore. He's become the butt of jokes at the local comedy clubs as well. Certain lawyers who want to remain nameless, are considering legal action against him for witness tampering and intimidation. They've said KJ agrees with them and before she leaves (end of 2006) she'll "take care" of Jossy. Most of us can't wait!!!!

[klaasend]

Mrs Red -- below is what SurfChic wrote on PFN; she had only posted two times at this point; that's why I thought it might be JR.  I don't know how to quote, but it's on page 24 of "Carlos the Colombian" thread:

Most everyone here in aruba knew Carlos was lying!!! He was after the reward money. He's got a long record of drug arrests, like the crackhead from the landfill that Jossy believed. He'll be deported after he does his time for his latest offense. They knew he was lying almost immediately because he said he called his wife and it was checked out and it never happened. His story was always changing and was just too sensational to ever be believed. Jacobs and Adolpho called him "Mansur's MANURE!!!" in reference to all the lying witnesses that Jossy creates, intimidates or fabricates. No one here believes anything or anyone remotely tied to Jossy anymore. He's become the butt of jokes at the local comedy clubs as well. Certain lawyers who want to remain nameless, are considering legal action against him for witness tampering and intimidation. They've said KJ agrees with them and before she leaves (end of 2006) she'll "take care" of Jossy. Most of us can't wait!!!!

Another Refugee, IMO