Lively Case Discussion #676 8/10 - 8/12/2007

[Lala'sMom]

Let's see if I can confuse everyone even more...the 5th suspect just might could possibly be Steve Croes and not Lorenzo...now you guys see why I spend so much time on this one subject.  Depends on who you go to as the source of info...I am certain that Klaas has much better resources than I.

americaninaruba
  June 17, 2005, 07:42:03 AM »
   
Quote from: "Professor"
To American in Aruba: Are you sure about that identity? Fox News says he has the initials SGC and is the son of a prominent member of the judiciary. How can that be, if his father committed suicide?


OK im sosorry for mixign this up...its just i have liek 30 people on my back at the same time and im at work answerign the phone! LOl
ok the Boy taht hsi father commited suicide (Lorenzo is his name) he was arrrested YESTERDAY...the one of TODAY (SGC) i have not been confirmed a name yet...but i dont know who his parents are

[Lala'sMom]

Just one more before I have to go until later....

#  Checkme on June 17th, 2005 10:02 am

CRS,

You see? What I have been saying yesterday is falling into place.
# crs on June 17th, 2005 10:05 am

Checkme - You may be right. i also got a vibe though from watching the news here in the US and watching interviews with local that quite a few people think she is still alive.
# crs on June 17th, 2005 10:07 am

Is everyone seeing this news up top about the 4th arrest - how great would that be if this girl is still alive. I started to get that vibe last night and now it seems possible.

[Slogger]

Did you see Lou's cartoon?

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=7409.new#new

It's priceless.  Could someone bring it over?

[flyer33716]

Hi All, hope you are enjoying another blistering hot Friday? Can someone tell me where Van Der Straten is residing currently? Thanks for the help

[klaasend]

Did you see Lou's cartoon?

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forum/index.php?topic=7409.new#new

It's priceless.  Could someone bring it over?

[klaasend]

Hi All, hope you are enjoying another blistering hot Friday? Can someone tell me where Van Der Straten is residing currently? Thanks for the help

Bonaire - I believe he is the Chief of Polis now in Bonaire

[klaasend]

http://www.phillyfuture.org:80/node/5538

A Word About the Murder of Jamie Cockayne
Submitted by SaveArdmoreCoalition on August 9, 2007 - 1:20pm. News Opinion Bucks County
We have written a few things at PhillyFuture on the murder of Jamie Cockayne:

Suspect Arrested in Jamie Cockayne's Murder...But This is Far From Over

Will There Be Justice For Jamie Cockayne?

And over at our own website Save Ardmore Coalition.

Here, because anonymous posting is allowed, the comments are thicker than a hoard of locusts.

We are here on this topic because some of our members know some of Jamie Cockayne's extended family. We were asked to help and we feel we have, and will continue to do so until justice is fully served and Jamie's soul can rest and his family finds peace and closure...which of course won't happen until justice is served....

And while we are sorry that some of the native Virgin Islanders are upset at our opinions or media coverage, we have to say to you all quit your whining and do something!

If you don't like the fact that due to this inconvenient truth, a henious murder and almost two months of police inactivity caused a maelstrom of state side media blitzes, then DO something.

Quite posting your endless comments HERE and stand up and be counted as inidividuals in the Virgin Islands. Demand change and respect from your island government. Demand inquiries into how government does things. Demand your police department protect you and demand that your justice system actually work for your safety! If you all hate the corruption that some of you say surrounds you, do something! But don't blame us and others.

One of the millions of comments was about some poor young girl who was held hostage? Crikey! Why didn't you raise a fuss about it when it came to light? If all of us and the Cockayne family can contact media outlets,write on blogs,contact US Congressmen and Congresswomen and US Senators and Larry King and Anderson Cooper and Gerta Van Susteren, why the hell can't you all?

You can't say how mean spirited everyone is about the Jamie Cockayne murder and the relationship to how government procedures or whatever are coming to light in the media, when all you do it seems it whine and complain.

If you want us to see a different side of where you call home, tell us about it. If you don't like what is happening on the island you call home, take action. And if you don't like us wee potential tourists demanding safety and justice, we'll all just start to travel elsewhere, won't we? And then, this will turn into a Natalee Holloway situation, won't it?

Be an advocate for positive change. And allow people their opinions if we are to be subjected to yours. However, the comments we will no longer tolerate are the blatant racist and thinly veiled racist comments from either side.

This issue we are discussing is NOT about race. It's about murder.

And we also would like those who would like to slander Jamie Cockayne's name in death to knock it off. If you have proof of people's bad acts, then go to the authorities. But please refrain from slandering a dead kid.

Because that is what he was...a kid. A kid with his whole life ahead of him. Yeah kids do dumb ass things, but does that mean we should all go around murdering every 21 year old kid we see? No. What happened to Jamie Cockayne was a sheer act of savagery. How his family has been treated is intolerable in our opinion.

That's it. We're off the soapbox.

And in case you haven't read them, please check out these articles from the Bulletin in Philadelphia:

Another Arrest Made In Cockayne Investigation
By: Jenny DeHuff, The Bulletin
08/08/2007


Arrest Made In Virgin Islands Case
By: Jenny DeHuff, The Bulletin
08/07/2007

[klaasend]

Here is the latest from Natalee's Freebirds:

THE CONFESSION JUNE 10, 2005

Following what can only be considered a cover up by Aruban officals, Internet bloggers with an obvious agenda to shield the truth in the Natalee Holloway case refer to the confession of June 10, 2005 as an unfounded rumor. However, the Aruban Justice Ministery spokesperson and the Deputy Police Commissioner, respectively, released statements to Fox News and the Associated Press.

These statements confirmed that Natalee Holloway was dead, authorities knew the location of her body and Natalee's family was being taken to her remains. These official statements were based on an admission given by one of the suspects - one of the suspects who Gerold Dompig refused to identify.


1. CONFIRMED DEAD - LOCATION OF BODY IS KNOWN BY AUTHORITIES

On June 10, 2005, a spokesperson for the Aruban Justice Minister made a statement to Fox News that Natalee Holloway was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body. Fox News confirmed this statement prior to its public release. This statement was later retracted by the Justice Minister but it is logical to assume that the official Aruban spokesperson did not pull the contents of the statement made to Fox News out thin air.

Aruban Minister of Justice Spokesperson - FOX NEWS - 06-11-05

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Reports conflicted Saturday in developments of the Alabama honor student who has been missing in Aruba for almost two weeks.

David Cruz, a spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway (search), who was on vacation with friends with a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body.

However, Cruz later retracted the statement, saying he was a victim of a "misinformation campaign."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html


Rick Leventhal - FOX NEWS - 06-15-05

The next day, another official spoke to one of our producers. Edward Croues, a spokesman for the minister of justice, told Craig Rivera he had "official information" that Natalee was "confirmed dead," and told Craig her father had asked police to take him to the body and to do it before the press found out where it was. We reconfirmed the information with Croues before going on-air with it.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159664,00.html


2. SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED!

Members of Natalee Holloway's frantic family were were directed to the location where Natalee Holloways remains were to be found. Gerold Dompig's official position within the investigation would imply that he had a foundational knowledge to derived from when he stated to the Associated Pressing that one of the suspects admitted that "something bad happened".

Gerold Dompig - CBS NEWS - 06-20-05

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/10/national/main700829.shtml


3. REFUSES TO IDENTIFY SUSPECT WHO MADE ADMISSION

The Deputy Police Commissioner, Gerold Dompig, refused to identify to the Associated Press which of the suspects made the admission that "something bad happened" to Natalee Holloway. However, prosecutors acknowledged that the investigation was at a crucial point.

Gerold Dompig - Fox News - 06-11-05

One of the young men detained admitted "something bad happened" to the woman after they took her to the beach, a police officer said, while prosecutors said the investigation was at a crucial point. But prosecutors refused to comment on the statement by Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig (search), who told The Associated Press that the man who made that admission was leading police to the scene. He refused to identify which of the three young men who took Holloway to a northern beach the night she went missing made the statement.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html


4. AN ANGUISHED FAMILY'S NIGHT IN HELL

On June 10, 2005, the FBI informed Natalee' Holloways mother of the events taking place which implied that her dauther was deceased. Close relatives were notified. The grieving process had begun. It can be assumed that the FBI would not have contributed to Natalee's family ongoing nightmare by sharing information that had not been confirmed by Aruban authorities.

Dave Holloway - THE MERIDIAN STAR - 06-03-28

At some point into this investigation, as time goes on and you don’t find her, you start realizing that things are not looking good. We got that confirmation pretty much from the FBI on June 10. They came to us and said the investigation appears to be heading toward a homicide case.
http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_148205455.html


Beth Twitty - 'Scarborough Country' - 07-12-05

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: And that was the day that the FBI came in, Doug Shipley (ph) came in and said that the way the interrogations are unfolding, there‘s a strong possibility that Natalee may not be alive. That was huge. That was the day that—I think, Joe, everyone buried Natalee that day, on June 10.

And then it just—from there, the night went on. There were body sightings, countless. They were knocking on my door. They thought they found her. Oh, no, they didn‘t. It went on from 2:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m. to 4:00 a.m. It was horrific.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813596/


Paul Reynolds - 'Scarborough Country' - 07-12-05

PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I know that my sister had a meeting with the FBI June 10, Friday. And from that meeting, she became convinced that Natalee was no longer alive. She called her mother and told her that. And our family was—was—began the grieving process. You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice. And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.

SCARBOROUGH: And wait a second. I mean, these confessions were so rock solid that you actually had the FBI coming to you, coming to your family, Natalee's family, saying, we are sorry to tell you this, but there has been a confession. One of these boys has confessed, and Natalee is no longer alive. How do you pull something like that back off the table? Have you had or has your sister had or has anybody in the family had any explanation from Aruban officials whatever happened to this confession, where they buried it?

REYNOLDS: I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did. At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn't want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there's no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn't make any sense. It's as if they are being hidden or taken away.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, you said—talked about June the 10th. That's when you all were told that the confession had been made, and you said that the family actually started a grieving process. What did the family do?

REYNOLDS: You know, grieving is—it's a difficult process. We were all notified. We exchanged phone calls, making sure everyone in the family was notified. I even had to tell my children, very upsetting to them, very upsetting to all of us.

SCARBOROUGH: Wait, Paul. Are you telling me, back on June the 10th, you told your children, based on the confession of one of these—these punks that took Natalee away from the bar, that Natalee was dead? This was over a month ago. You had to break it to your family, the entire family, Natalee's entire family, because of the confessions, knew that she was dead, and yet here we are over a month later, and they are still claiming they don't have enough evidence to nail these guys?

REYNOLDS: That's absolutely correct. You know, the FBI had informed my sister based on the initial interrogations that that was their belief. That information was given to our family. And it's just—it's a very difficult thing to go through. Grieving should only be a process you have to go through one time.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822

++++++++++++++++

CONCLUSION

Unfortunately, this was one of the many emotional struggles with baffling and unexplained results that an American family was forced to experience compliments of Aruban officals associated with the Natalee Holloway investigation.

Beth Twitty - DR. PHIL SHOW - 01-29-06

BETH: "There are times when we're thinking that we need to continue, and of course we're still searching for answers, but it's this rollercoaster ride. And it makes me so angry, Dr. Phil, when I let myself fall for information coming out of an official who represents the island of Aruba. If somebody presents you with false hope and false information, it's devastating."
http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=1&slide=3&null=null


Karin Janssen/Vivian van der Biezen - DECATUR DAILY - 06-12-05

A statement from the office of Attorney General Caren Janssen late Saturday said, "Information given by non-official sources jeopardizes the ongoing investigation and creates expectations and situations that are not based on fact." Police refused to say Saturday whether they discovered anything that would lead to Holloway, who was last seen in the early hours of May 30.
Referring to Dompig's statement, prosecution spokeswoman Vivian van der Biezen said Saturday: "We neither confirm nor deny any information coming from other sources . . . (about) alleged statements of suspects in this case."
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/050612/officials.shtml


Rudy Croes - Associated Press - 06-10-05

Then Justice Minister Rudy Croes told reporters early Saturday morning that the rumor that one of the students had confessed was a lie, throwing the media on the island into confusion and prompting conflicting news alerts from the Caribbean. Croes emphatically denied that any confession had been made.
http://crime.about.com/b/a/176635.htm


Rudy Croes - FOX NEWS - 06-11-05

The Minister of Justice confirmed that Natalee Holloway is dead, and police at this hour are taking her parents to the location where investigators found her body. Earlier in the day the Justice Minister flatly denied these reports, but now says it was not an issue of the facts of the case being wrong, but merely an issue of protocol. He says the police source initially talking to the AP had not conferred with his higher ups before, but it appears that the facts were correct all along.
http://exposetheleft.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-is-dead/



Natalee Holloway and her family deserve justice. We will not let up until they have it!

Natalee's Freebirds
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

[flyer33716]

okay here is question. Paulus is owed favors which he calls in to save his and the spahns butts. Van der straten has the evidence to convict but owes Paulus so it never becomes public. Do you honestly think that once Van der stratten is put in this comprimising position that he and his cohorts destroy this evidence? I highly doubt! I believe it would be hidden away as blackmail item to be used if ever put in a risky position. So back to my theory of the case already being made.  It appears that KLPD is just going through the motions on Aruba which puts the pimps somewhat at ease meanwhile you have Jansen and Van der Straten being grilled behind the scenes. To save one's behind you have to come clean and which better way than to pull the evidence from the hidden chest. The KLPD has what it needs and is just waiting for the bigger sting to go down. Lorenzo maybe his misfortune to being busted was because of such evidence? Joran is tucked away in the Nertherlands for his own safe keeping. I would think he is a big liabilty to the others on Aruba and would possibly become a suicide, car wreck, drowning or self mutilated casualty if found on Aruba. Again just speculation but I think the SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!!

[Ree]

okay here is question. Paulus is owed favors which he calls in to save his and the spahns butts. Van der straten has the evidence to convict but owes Paulus so it never becomes public. Do you honestly think that once Van der stratten is put in this comprimising position that he and his cohorts destroy this evidence? I highly doubt! I believe it would be hidden away as blackmail item to be used if ever put in a risky position. So back to my theory of the case already being made.  It appears that KLPD is just going through the motions on Aruba which puts the pimps somewhat at ease meanwhile you have Jansen and Van der Straten being grilled behind the scenes. To save one's behind you have to come clean and which better way than to pull the evidence from the hidden chest. The KLPD has what it needs and is just waiting for the bigger sting to go down. Lorenzo maybe his misfortune to being busted was because of such evidence? Joran is tucked away in the Nertherlands for his own safe keeping. I would think he is a big liabilty to the others on Aruba and would possibly become a suicide, car wreck, drowning or self mutilated casualty if found on Aruba. Again just speculation but I think the SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!!

I don't agree that he would keep the evidence, because that evidence is also proof that he, himself committed a crime.  If it were me, I'd have destroyed it.  That said, I sure hope you're right.

[klaasend]

okay here is question. Paulus is owed favors which he calls in to save his and the spahns butts. Van der straten has the evidence to convict but owes Paulus so it never becomes public. Do you honestly think that once Van der stratten is put in this comprimising position that he and his cohorts destroy this evidence? I highly doubt! I believe it would be hidden away as blackmail item to be used if ever put in a risky position. So back to my theory of the case already being made.  It appears that KLPD is just going through the motions on Aruba which puts the pimps somewhat at ease meanwhile you have Jansen and Van der Straten being grilled behind the scenes. To save one's behind you have to come clean and which better way than to pull the evidence from the hidden chest. The KLPD has what it needs and is just waiting for the bigger sting to go down. Lorenzo maybe his misfortune to being busted was because of such evidence? Joran is tucked away in the Nertherlands for his own safe keeping. I would think he is a big liabilty to the others on Aruba and would possibly become a suicide, car wreck, drowning or self mutilated casualty if found on Aruba. Again just speculation but I think the SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!!

I hope you are right! 

[flyer33716]

okay here is question. Paulus is owed favors which he calls in to save his and the spahns butts. Van der straten has the evidence to convict but owes Paulus so it never becomes public. Do you honestly think that once Van der stratten is put in this comprimising position that he and his cohorts destroy this evidence? I highly doubt! I believe it would be hidden away as blackmail item to be used if ever put in a risky position. So back to my theory of the case already being made.  It appears that KLPD is just going through the motions on Aruba which puts the pimps somewhat at ease meanwhile you have Jansen and Van der Straten being grilled behind the scenes. To save one's behind you have to come clean and which better way than to pull the evidence from the hidden chest. The KLPD has what it needs and is just waiting for the bigger sting to go down. Lorenzo maybe his misfortune to being busted was because of such evidence? Joran is tucked away in the Nertherlands for his own safe keeping. I would think he is a big liabilty to the others on Aruba and would possibly become a suicide, car wreck, drowning or self mutilated casualty if found on Aruba. Again just speculation but I think the SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!!

I don't agree that he would keep the evidence, because that evidence is also proof that he, himself committed a crime.  If it were me, I'd have destroyed it.  That said, I sure hope you're right.

That is where I think that with all the crap that goes on there that I keep it well hidden, it is a chip to be used. If found they have obstruction of justice (if that exists there). But the value of the chip is PRICELESS. It is almost as good as gold

[Slogger]

I do believe blackmail could be part of the scenario; and, it is very possible evidence would have been saved.  Persons subjected to blackmail get pulled in deeper and for the rest of their lives.  Self-preservation is strong.  A person who is being blackmailed could seek insurance, and preventive medicine--in the form of evidence.

Yes, possible.

[Kimmy53]

Flyer - I have always thought it was the Kalpoes who have some hidden evidence... I think they do or else they would have been thrown under the bus a long time ago.

[flyer33716]

Flyer - I have always thought it was the Kalpoes who have some hidden evidence... I think they do or else they would have been thrown under the bus a long time ago.

I would agree with that. I think there are a few people with evidence everyone trying to CYA. Then it comes down to whom has the most to lose. The Kalpoes are lackies but semi smart. Do I think they participated in the fun? No They were procurers, drivers, doo u think Joran/Paulus and whomever would want a Natalee tainted by the Kalpoes. I think not ( Please do not take that as a racist comment) the social structure on that hell hole is the white dutch and then the Arubans.

[Kimmy53]

Flyer - I have always thought it was the Kalpoes who have some hidden evidence... I think they do or else they would have been thrown under the bus a long time ago.

I would agree with that. I think there are a few people with evidence everyone trying to CYA. Then it comes down to whom has the most to lose. The Kalpoes are lackies but semi smart. Do I think they participated in the fun? No They were procurers, drivers, doo u think Joran/Paulus and whomever would want a Natalee tainted by the Kalpoes. I think not ( Please do not take that as a racist comment) the social structure on that hell hole is the white dutch and then the Arubans.

Oh - I agree - The VDS's see themselves as "above" others.  I know exactly what you are saying.

[Slogger]

Many seem to have motivation for CYA.  (not only to cover it, but to save it)

There are indications of evidence.

[JusticeforNatalee]

To those asking about the letter campaign,
the input was from Dave, not Robin.

If you still want to write, please do.

As for a massive letter campaign,
it is better to do it when really needed.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Here is the latest from Natalee's Freebirds:

Rudy Croes - FOX NEWS - 06-11-05

The Minister of Justice confirmed that Natalee Holloway is dead, and police at this hour are taking her parents to the location where investigators found her body. Earlier in the day the Justice Minister flatly denied these reports, but now says it was not an issue of the facts of the case being wrong, but merely an issue of protocol. He says the police source initially talking to the AP had not conferred with his higher ups before, but it appears that the facts were correct all along.
http://exposetheleft.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-is-dead/



Natalee Holloway and her family deserve justice. We will not let up until they have it!

Natalee's Freebirds
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

I think this is the only report I didn't read.I did not know they made these statements,then denied these statements THEN restated them again.
Thanks Klaas.

[Altruist]

a few items that make me go hmmmmm:

AVDS referring with such firm indignation about the adults present with her child.  ( seems to me this is firm support of stance  communicated by PVDS to the k2's, that due to their age, their punishment would be greater than JVDS, therefore necessary to assist cover-up for JVDS & PVDS )

Upon release from KIA & recorded by the press we see with our own eyes, DK, cried, cried & cried. SK no outward sign of emotion but slight hint of shame & embarrassment in his eyes, JVDS smiling all the way accompanied by AVDS, PVDS & Cohen.