Natalee Case Discussion #678 8/16 - 8/26/2007

[San]

Let's hope 2007 brings Justice for Natalee

[crazybabyborg]

SMOOTH, SAN!

[Anna]

Where's Robots?

[oldfart]

Is this the first NCD  cage switch   and Where is Lala's to record the event (if it is )???

[Rammstein]

crime and criminality are a threat so any society and that is no different in the Netherlands.

Very few serious crimes (relatively) happen in the Netherlands. While we are far from paradise we have kept violent crime down by using our sentencing structure in such a manner that one time offenders will be able to return to life after an appropriate punishment (according to our principles and opinions) or that people who are most likely going to be repeat offenders are dealt by separate procedures.

The Netherlands only know approximately between 175 and 250 murders a year. Of those 80% are solved. Most of what remains are usually professional murders by hit men in the criminal world for which usually no suspect is ever found.

In rape cases also approximately 75 to 80% of cases are solved.

Our legal system may not work anywhere else, the document provided by Easywriter shows the complexity of our system and the way we try our cases. You may think suspects are getting an easy deal here, but in most countries you cannot hold a suspect for almost 100 days so that you can investigate his case.

Easywriter's document also showed that most defendants confess in the Netherlands (in all cases that come to trial). Most confess to their serious crimes within days of being arrested. Lies are common placed when interviewing suspects, but the rewards for telling the truth will be made clear to the suspect during the hours and hours of interrogations that he will have to sit through. A Proces Verbaal is usually a tame reflection of what actually took place during interrogations.

I am not going to pretend that our system is the greatest in the world because other systems most likely are equal in performance and appropriate for the country they are used in.

The Netherlands is a safe society compared to many places, murder, rape and manslaughter are not common crimes and dealt with effectively in most cases. Police will spend a lot of resources on those crimes. Also targeted are things like terrorism, child-pornography, human trafficking, major drugs-smugglers and organized crime.

Believe it or not, our system works for US, the dutch. The identities of people arrested for example here are not made public because they are nothing more than suspects. The facts of the case will be kept quiet until the trial begins because that too is how our system works.

I do not come here to preach how wonderful our system is, I cannot competently compare it thoroughly with other systems around the world but then that never was my task to begin with.

I know many people dislike what I say or how things are done in my country when it comes to legal issues, but like I just said, for us, they work. We can keep someone in jail for 116 days when only having strong suspicions, our prosecutors have vast resources at their disposal but all of this will only work if there is an actual will to do the work properly. In the Netherlands we have that, our courts and politicians make sure of it by keeping their fingers on the pulse.

In Aruba the system has gone to hell by incompetent, corrupt officials. By no oversight to speak off by the politicians and by an atmosphere of permissiveness that is not found on the mainland of the Kingdom.

I wish the Dutch could take over the island and put things right, but that would be colonial of us and that would be against what we had agreed with our former colonies. They want independence and we have no way to prevent that. I hope that the Arubans will wake up someday and smell the stench that comes from their government and society with regards to upholding the law. Especially in Natalee's case this has been a total travesty of justice.

I cannot stress strongly enough as to how disgusted I am by the actions of what should be countrymen of mine far away in the Americas. But their actions are no way like those of the majority of Dutch people that I know.

All I can do in this case is hope, hope there will be a break, hope the KLPD will find the missing pieces of the puzzle, hope that Natalee will be found, hope that the culprits will stand in court and be sentenced and hope that there will be some peace of mind for the family of Natalee after all is said and done.

Aruba is an open sore in the Kingdom, a boil that needs to be punctured and flushed out. I hope that this too will happen or else the island and it's people are going to suffer the consequences of that situation. And the only people who can do that are the Arubans themselves. They need to rise up against the 2 major corrupt political parties on the island and form a new purer administration who can solve their problems rather than add to it.

[Anna]

Quote:

As we have seen, under the opportunity principle as it applies in the Netherlands, with its elaborate system of prosecutorial directives, not more than 4% of all felonies that come to the attention of the police, actually reach a court and the percentage of misdemeanours is even less. However, if they do, that same principle implies that the prosecution has taken a deliberate decision to prosecute on the basis of prior investigation

[sirensong]

Good evening everyone!  Ramm, I may have missed it, as I don't always read every page, but have you ever explained how you know so much about Dutch legal issues, down to the number of copies of the PV put in a suspects file?  TIA

[Anna]

So I guess it was OK for Paulus to quiz Freddie because he was not Joran's OFFICIAL attorney at the time:

Quote:

The Code of Conduct of the Dutch Bar Association is somewhat ambivalent on the matter of lawyers conducting pre-trial investigations and certainly there is a taboo on speaking to a witness pre trial; although not expressly forbidden, it is simply not done. . . .

[Sam]

Wow Ramm, that was a wonderful post. I said you are a monkey.

You proved it with that post. We too want Justice for Natalee and her famly. JMHO


Old fart , I liked that working without a budget anolgy. Now remember they did manage to put there pay raise in it though.

[sirensong]

I forgot to ask, did anything ever come out the other day about the Dr. Phil lawsuit?  Wasn't there a decision or something to be made?  TIA

[klaasend]

I forgot to ask, did anything ever come out the other day about the Dr. Phil lawsuit?  Wasn't there a decision or something to be made?  TIA

I think everything is held over until August 24th now.

[igsigs]

I forgot to ask, did anything ever come out the other day about the Dr. Phil lawsuit?  Wasn't there a decision or something to be made?  TIA

There was, but there wasn't. A delay or continuance or somesuchthing. Nothing decided.

[crazybabyborg]

Great post, Ramm and well said.

Siren, the lawsuit is still on and moving s-l-o-w-l-y

[igsigs]

Kalpoes are screwed. Aruba barely tolerates them now, and once the Phil suit is lost they will no longer be of use.

It's time to sing.

[klaasend]

Kalpoes are screwed. Aruba barely tolerates them now, and once the Phil suit is lost they will no longer be of use.

It's time to sing.

It's way past time, IMO

[Anna]

Kalpoes are screwed. Aruba barely tolerates them now, and once the Phil suit is lost they will no longer be of use.

It's time to sing.

It's way past time, IMO

Paulus was setting them up from the first day.  Big Time!

[Anna]

He had the Kalpoes make HI statement and told Joran to change to FH so it would look like the Kalpoes were still lying.  Otherwise, how would ALE have known to be asking them about the FH?

[klaasend]

Posted by Clevfan at the majorwager forum.  Clevfan was corresponding with Deepak:

07-28-2005, 11:23 PM 
clevfan 
Staff   Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 17,984 
 
 
Apparently, they are still draining the pond, here's a pic of it:




Here's a couple things that Deepak has commented on (not publicly):

Deepak said that it was Satish that was playing in the prison domino's game.

Deepak states that this "witness" that has come forward to say he saw the car in the area of the racquet club is Jossy Mansur's nephew (Jossy owns the Diario Newspaper). *

Deepak claims that the story about the missing sneeker is another one of Joran's lies that he told cops in an early version of his story.

*It is no secret on the island that Jossy has many agenda's and some say that he is using this story to sell alot of newspapers and get alot of tv coverage time on the USA news shows.

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/44196-anyone-else-following-natalee-holloway-case-16.html
 

[klaasend]

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/44196-anyone-else-following-natalee-holloway-case-16.html

08-01-2005, 11:02 PM 
clevfan  
Staff   Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 17,984 
 
 
The Aruban police have put out a notice (I am serious here, too). They want people to be on the lookout for a size 14 blue and white K-Swiss tennis shoe or shoes. I will post the poster of it as soon as I see one.

They are saying that quite possiblely Joran is missing the shoe or both shoes that he had on that night.

BTW, this is DAY 62 that Natalee has been missing
 

[klaasend]

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/44196-anyone-else-following-natalee-holloway-case-19.html

08-27-2005, 12:21 AM 
clevfan  
Staff   Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 17,984 
 
 There supposedly is going to be another arrest, probably tomorrow. Freddie is Joran's friend, he also lives right behind Joran's little apt. and he somehow connects to a car. The authorities are saying this gang of boys raped Natalee.

They are letting the 3 that were brought in today sit tight until 11pm tonight and then they are going to start interrogating them heavily