Monkey Musing Daily Open Discussion #2 8/17 - 8/24/2007

[BTgirl]

Anna

I'm afraid I must disagree with you and say that it is working only for a very, very small minority of posters. I have heard from many, many people that it doesn't work for them at all. If we were to be free to discuss whatever we wanted to in this thread, and then have the mods copy substantive posts to the appropriate threads, then I think it would work for most people. Those who want to post together could be here, and those who want things very cut and dried could read the cut and dried posts in the threads where they want to read. I'm afraid if things keep going the way they are, many posters will leave.

Posting at SM is a hobby that is done in the free time of adults who can choose to spend that free time any way they want to. When the experiences at SM ceases to be rewarding for them, they will spend their free time elsewhere, IMO. You can't teach old dogs new tricks if the old dogs have moved on.

BT,
The reverse side of that is all the posters who left because of the off topic chatter in what should have been the Natalee Thread.  I would venture that just as many or more people left because of that as stayed for it.

We lost many very good posters because of that before as well and I have received emails as well from them that they won't try to carry on a serious discussion under those circumstances of having it hijacked by somebody for trivial things.

Maybe some of those will even come back if they don't have to read nine pages with Natalee only being mentioned twice again.

This musings thread can be about anything anybody wants to discuss so what is so cut and dried about that?  You can't get any more loose than that except maybe in chat which you also have as an option. 

And we do have new posters being allowed to post daily and some new and fresh insight can be a good thing as well.

Anna

I think the point is that the musings thread can't be about anything anybody wants to discuss. It can't have any mention of Natalee, and Natalee's thread can't have any mention of Shango. It can't contain anything that could be talked about in any other thread at all. The setup now totally disrupts the social dynamic that kept the core group of posters together. I have heard it expressed that the posters who have been here for two years are being sacrificed so that we can have new posters who only want to make the occasional specific posts in specific threads. I'm not saying that's the intent of Dugga and Red - I'm saying that's how it feels to some people.

[BTgirl]

I have to go do chores now, but I hope this debate will continue this morning. It seems to me that we need to have a healthy debate so that the bad feelings that are building up can be dealt with.

[Anna]

Well, then I think we have all drifted --- because we were told we could discuss Natalee here but if there was any concrete information to take it to the Natalee Holloway forum, and that the NH forum should be for solid news and not rehashing old things.  I am still confused, so I will just drift, drift away....this is all too confusing and I am far too old to be confused more than necessary.  Too many chiefs and not enough indians, and this old squaw is taking moccasins and walking away.

Asking if anyone else remembers this ~ Tyler states exactly what I remember being told. 

Yes, I'm posting this question again. 

Yes, I agree with Tyler that we were told to only post breaking news and important documentation in the Natalee Thread and now seems we should discuss there as well.

This is part of the problem, no clear instructions on what goes where.  It is confusing but I don't think one monster thread is the answer.  That didn't work, either. 

So I guess any in depth discussion of Natalee belongs on her thread and this is for chatter?  But I do agree that we were told to save the Natalee Thread for the really big breaking news of which there is never any.

[2NJSons_Mom]

This thread will be like the old LCD thread.  We only request that if you have actual news, photos or pertenant facts on specific cases you post in the proper area.

Example:  If you have a news article or photo or specific information on the NH or other MP cases please post in either the NH thread or the MP thread.  If you have information on a court date in the NH case, please post in the NH thread, etc.

If you really just want to chat about silly stuff, please go to the chat room.

Other than that, discussion about all topics is welcome and this thread will act as our "meeting place and hang out".
 
 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 10:03:03 AM by klaasend » 
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2027.0

*********

Good morning.

[Anna]

I have not seen anybody say there can be "no mention" of anything in the Musings thread, Natalee included.  It's one thing to mention and another to make lengthy in depth posts, etc.

We got a bit carried away last night while things were slow but that should have been discussed elsewhere when it ran on for five pages, etc.

But it should be mentioned here when something happens then discussed in depth in the appropriate thread same as on any other forum.

Five pages is a little more than mentioning.

JMO
.

[IBE]

BTgirl said:
"The setup now totally disrupts the social dynamic that kept the core group of posters together. I have heard it expressed that the posters who have been here for two years are being sacrificed so that we can have new posters who only want to make the occasional specific posts in specific threads. I'm not saying that's the intent of Dugga and Red - I'm saying that's how it feels to some people."

IMO all the creative juices, the throwing back of ideas, even the O/T was something I have never experienced on the Internet and it was here on SM

It was fun  IMO the fun is gone IMO... the chat and all the bells and whistles, to me aren't worth a penny if you loose the Monkey family.

Dugga, you joked once about your wife saying your dealt a heavy hand or something like that...

I'd like to hear from Red, whom I respect also, just what the M.O. is and how to keep the Monkey family together

There should be a 911 in SM ..... IMO

Really going to leave now... BBL... before I make too many enemies

[Anna]

Well, a thread about somebody's missing and likely deceased child is not supposed to be fun is the point.  It is a sad and serious subject.

We have plenty of other places for fun like this musings thread.  It wasn't fun for all of us in the first place.  It can be very tedious to try to conduct a serious discussion about something this tragic in the middle of others who only want to have fun.

Those two things do not belong in one place and can't occupy the same space. 

I don't understand why this is such a big deal.  Muse here; discuss Natalee on her thread.  Why this would be difficult at all I just don't understand.

[Anna]

Mine VP: Rescuers 'will not give up hope' despite setbacks

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/19/utah.mine/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[NYC_lover]

Good morning all!
How is everbody doing today?

[Anna]

Off to church and to work and lurk. . .

Whatever is worked out for posting guidelines needs to be a lot clearer on what should be where, however, as we are receiving conflicting instructions.

Please could we pick one and stick to it?  I don't know if current events belong here or not now.  And this is the first I have heard that Natalee can't even be mentioned here, not sure where that came from.  Maybe instructions being issued in chat?

I am sure better guidelines can be set up so we know where things go.  At least, I surely hope so.

Have a great day, all!

[2NJSons_Mom]

Good morning all!
How is everbody doing today?

Hello, NYC_lover............there seems to be a little confusion about what can or cannot be discussed on this thread.  Guess we're waiting for clarification.

How are things in your part of the world?

[MuffyBee]

Good morning

[2NJSons_Mom]

Good morning

[BTgirl]

Well, a thread about somebody's missing and likely deceased child is not supposed to be fun is the point.  It is a sad and serious subject.

We have plenty of other places for fun like this musings thread.  It wasn't fun for all of us in the first place.  It can be very tedious to try to conduct a serious discussion about something this tragic in the middle of others who only want to have fun.

Those two things do not belong in one place and can't occupy the same space. 

I don't understand why this is such a big deal.  Muse here; discuss Natalee on her thread.  Why this would be difficult at all I just don't understand.

Regarding this, I would like to say that I understand how Anna feels, and yet I don't think humans operate exactly the way logic tell us they should. Has anyone ever been to a funeral home visitation and heard how much laughter there is in the background? And how about wakes where people party in memory of the deceased person? IMO, people need laughter even in the saddest of times. It seems to be what helps people deal with tragedy and brings them together for comfort.

[SunFreak2]

Good morning monkeys.

I feel stymied with all the different topics and places to post/converse.  I'm not sure where I belong anymore, if at all.  I don't feel like I should  post in the Natalee thread b/c what I have to say is not news.

Can someone please claarify what is happening?

[mrs. red]

Hey y'all....

Here are a few ]things I wonder about ... in answer to what feels to me   like EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU COMPLAINING...[/color

if we are all here talking about Natalee - why is it that when I or anyone says let's go talk about this in the Natalee thread no one will go.... there wasn't any off topic conversation going on last night when I was here, (I mean not about Natallee) because I was off topic and left due to the fact that I wanted to discuss other stuff...


I have never heard of or been told NO Shango in the Natalee thread...

I do know that Shango annoys the living pi$$ out of some of you... and others do not want to ever see anything but Shango....

Some people don't care if it's all mixed up and others do...

but do y'all think that Gloria or Carolyn - two of the moms of missing people that ******* asked to join want to discuss "how thongs are in April or Clinton's thread"?  we don't dare do that to them... and yet somehow it's ok for Natalee...

everyone stays in chat to be the same social club... and refuse basically to ever come out here and talk ... i can think of several people in that category...

so now that I have asked all of this... think about and honestly tell me what exactly is the problem?

if we discussed Natalee for five pages, why couldn't we all have moved the thread to her thread?  I would have gladly helped Klass move it all...(once she told me how) but when I said let's go there... NO ONE WOULD>>> WHY NOT?

[mrs. red]

let me also just say... .

why I get as upset about this as I do...

and I am sure Easy or Rob or whomever will tell you this is the truth...

HOURS and HOURS and HOURS of work goes into the front page... which I don't think half of the monkeys even read - and then the other HOURS and HOURS of work that goes into this....

think about how many hours of the day you see Klaasend here? San?

I know that it isn't your problem how many hours go into making this work - but think about it and just understand that as the person who always hears one second ... when we are leaving becuase Red is answering an email or doing something for the board, it really hurts my feelings to hear nothing but how bad it sucks...

have a great day - I am going for the day.

[klaasend]

Hey y'all....

Here are a few ]things I wonder about ... in answer to what feels to me   like EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU COMPLAINING...[/color

if we are all here talking about Natalee - why is it that when I or anyone says let's go talk about this in the Natalee thread no one will go.... there wasn't any off topic conversation going on last night when I was here, (I mean not about Natallee) because I was off topic and left due to the fact that I wanted to discuss other stuff...


I have never heard of or been told NO Shango in the Natalee thread...

I do know that Shango annoys the living pi$$ out of some of you... and others do not want to ever see anything but Shango....

Some people don't care if it's all mixed up and others do...

but do y'all think that Gloria or Carolyn - two of the moms of missing people that ******* asked to join want to discuss "how thongs are in April or Clinton's thread"?  we don't dare do that to them... and yet somehow it's ok for Natalee...

everyone stays in chat to be the same social club... and refuse basically to ever come out here and talk ... i can think of several people in that category...

so now that I have asked all of this... think about and honestly tell me what exactly is the problem?

if we discussed Natalee for five pages, why couldn't we all have moved the thread to her thread?  I would have gladly helped Klass move it all...(once she told me how) but when I said let's go there... NO ONE WOULD>>> WHY NOT?

Mrs. Red - excellent points.

The discussion last night although it looked like straight forward NH discussion was reallly more trying to get some answers pertaining to some Shango/Simian posts.  I let the conversations go because I didn't want to argue about it but I figured it would be looked at as excessive by Red and Dugga.

What you have pointed out is very true, we don't "chat" about the weather in the Donna Jou thread or any of the other missing persons threads so why is it OK in the NH thread?

[Anna]

I don't think many people laugh at funeral visitations.  Yes, there are always a few that will try to make a joke out of anything but that doesn't make it right.  Some things in life are not meant to be laughed about and I think a missing, dead child is one of those.

Natalee does deserve the same respect given to all other missing people just as Mrs. Red says.  I don't know why some just don't want to give that to her.  Many of us are here primarily for Natalee and other things are secondary to that.

And I have yet to see anything "creative" relating to Natalee come about as a result of off topic chatter.

Mrs. Red, I didn't see you post to move to the Natalee Thread or I would have.  There were two mods and a hall monitor telling me to stay here.

This is what I mean about conflicting instructions.  We need one set of rules that is clear and concise as to where what should be discussed.

I will at least TRY just about anything, just need to know what it is I am supposed to be doing.  Think I will give myself a break until this is all worked out a little better.

[MuffyBee]

Klaas you and Mrs. Red are right-we don't chatter and o/t in the missing and exploited threads.  I think perhaps the Natalee Holloway thread had become the main place for all to go and it evolved into the everything thread.  I don't think posters have thought about or realized it would be disrespectful.  The post Mrs. Red just made and you made puts it into perspective.  No, we shouldn't be posting the weather or our pets in Natalee's thread.  Klaas, you have said if we got into discussing Natalee's case in Musings, you could move it if need be.  You didn't say heads would roll for it.  And you didn't say there would be some kind of penalty for posting OT in Natalee's thread.  You've just asked that OT not be posted there.  And this is out of respect for Natalee.  Why are posters here?  If they are on Natalee's thread, it should be about Natalee.  If on Donna Jou thread, it should be about her.  I cannot understand why it's being made harder than it is.  I check/read around all this place, first front page.  The question is:  why do people feel the need and want to post on Natalee's thread, OT?  SM is the only place I can think of that folks can come and read and not see family bashed or be trolled.  Some posters don't have a lot of time, and come to check Natalee's thread for anything new, or developing.  Why not go to musings for other things?  Habit?  We are creatures of habit, and habits are hard to change, even for the good.  I understand it takes about 3 weeks to change a habit.  I am hearing no one posts in musing.  Well duh.  If everyone sits at their computer waiting for someone else to post and strike up conversation in Musings, it won't happen.  You can't expect a small handful of posters to carry the conversation on Musings.  You gotta post too.  Then there is complaining that the handful of posters have taken over the threads.  Don't like it?  Get out there and post.  This "I don't know where to post" what?!  Look at subject:   It will tell you Natalee Holloway.  Or it will tell you Monkey Musing.  Are we adults here?  I think we have a group of above average folks here that are throwing hissys.  Go ahead and flame away....